Another in a long line of shameless puff pieces on HD radio in Radio World.

[KB1OKL]

And guess who wrote it? The master jammer himself and no he's not a new rap DJ.

"As opposed to many other technologies on display at this year's NAB Show, HD Radio technology is, at least relatively, an infant. And compared with more mature technologies, HD Radio technology is in a constant state of development as proponents work to make the technology perform better and give the listener a better experience."

Thomas R. Ray III, CPBE, is VP/corporate director of engineering for Buckley Broadcasting/WOR Radio, New York.

I think this infant is dangerously close to becoming another statistic of crib death. More exciting new HD news from Tom at:

http://www.radioworld.com/article/76366

 

[Savage]

Well, there you have it: "...HD Radio technology is...an infant...compared with more mature technologies...."

An admission from one of HD's more stubbornly myopic tub-thumpers: HD Radio is....infantile.

Also very telling is Ray's comment that HD "proponents (are) work(ing) to make the technology perform better..."

Remember all the comments posted here comparing the slow rollout of HD to everything from TV, CDs and FM Radio...even microwave ovens? Do any of us recall comments from the dim, distant past remotely like the following:

Yeah, TV is unviewable unless you live within 5 miles of the transmitter, BUT WE'RE WORKING ON IT.
Sorry about how the food in your $1000 microwave takes more time than a conventional oven and still comes out semi-cooked and cold. BUT WE'RE WORKING ON IT.
Well, FM doesn't sound quite as good as AM, and it quits regularly, BUT WE'RE WORKING ON IT.
So CDs only play half as long as a stereo LP, are only good for 100 plays before they self-destruct and cost $75 each. BUT THEY'RE GETTING BETTER.

HD: an "immature technology?" You bet. Perpetually.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Also very telling is Ray's comment that HD "proponents (are) work(ing) to make the technology perform better..."

Tom actually seems to be a fairly decent engineer. But his sad devotion to this failed technology puts his engineering judgement under scrutiny. Engineering is a scientific discipline and deals with FACTS. There is nobody working on enhancements to AM IBOC, because it is not fixable. The only "work" being done is lobbying the FCC for permission to jam the FM dial with an unnecessary 10 dB power increase for IBOC sidebands.

I have some interesting observations on Dallas IBOC AM from Houston:

(1) WBAP, post IBOC, has its pre-IBOC reception level restored in Houston. Almost static free like a local.
(2) KLIF, with IBOC, is dramatically weaker than pre-IBOC. Almost unlistenable on a normal radio. But one thing that is NOT weak is its sidebands, putting audible hiss on semi-local KLVI from my Cypress listening location.
(3) The closest low band (non-directional) station to KLIF - KSKY - with no IBOC - is much stronger than KLIF. Partially due to 20 kW as opposed to 5, but offset by being higher on the dial.
(4) KAAM, which used to be almost static free from Cypress, is very much weaker. It is attacked by sidebands from local 790, but its sidebands are very evident on 760.
(5) KRLD, which is almost unreceivable, nevertheless puts very audible sidebands on 1090.

Bottom line here - analog coverage on AM with IBOC is very badly reduced, and the sidebands are very robust and are louder than the analog signal. Yes, I know Dallas stations don't care about Houston, but ---- they care about $5 clock radios in Dallas, which probably present much the same reception problems as a decent radio at a much further distance. When DX signals disappear, so do the same stations on cheap radios in their own area.

 

[Carmine5]

And, of course, with each incarnation of HD Radio, another previous model HD-R receiver heads for the landfill.

A-ha! So that's how they plan to reach the holy grail of one million HD Radios sold. Take it out on the HD-R faithful as they collectively say, "It's time to upgrade."

C5

 

[Savage]

From all the data I've been able to gather - including blogsites, industry publications and iBiquity releases (which read like Pravda and are notably, continually vague when it comes to reporting actual no-foolin' receiver sales) I would guesstimate that the sales of HD receivers have missed the "holy grail of 1 million unit sales" by at least half. Yep. I'd bet fewer than 500,000 have actually been placed in the hands of consumers.

And I think an enormous proportion of those were returned eventally (or perhaps instantly) because of poor performance and the necessity for home units to have external antennas. This is a deal-breaker for 99% of radio users IMO.

I have never been to a local retail outlet offering HD receivers which didn't have returns for sale. Not one. In a large percentage of instances, the returns were ALL that were for sale in HD-land.

 

[pocket-radio]

They're working on it. During a time when radio is facing more competition and challenges, HD should provide some solutions towards radio future, our salvation. Sadly HD thus far, has been disappointing for broadcasters and listeners.

Cracks & glitches have left broadcasters who invested in this technology high and dry. And listeners, well they've either voted with their wallets or didn't vote at all. Mostly they didn't vote.

Yesterday during sales calls I made visits to new car dealers. And what struck me the most was not the lack of customers, but displays of satellite radio info in the showroom.. mmm what does Mel know that The failed Radio Alliance doesn't..













I

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I've had a very frustrating effort to buy one of those Sony HD tuners. I've hit every Frys in Dallas and Houston in the past week - one display model in each that they won't sell - a few Sangeans at 2 1/2 times the price. If there are no HD radios for sale - how can HD radio be the savior of radio??? I wanted to get the Sony - not for HD - but for the great reputation that tuner has as a DX tuner. Not available. If I had wanted to buy an HD radio, I wouldn't have paid more for the Sangean.

Frys stock in stores sucks. Their web site told me they had some available in Webster, TX, a wasted 120 mile round trip because they didn't even have a display unit. If I were a consumer with only lukewarm interest, I'd have given up on HD radio. No consumer would have the patience to put up with the cr_p I've put up with trying to find one. Maybe Amazon.com will actually have the Sony. It will have a long career as an ANALOG DX unit.

 

[audioguy]

"They're working on it". They are?! Who are "they", and how is it possible to fix AM IBOC unless a way can somehow be found to repeal the laws of physics?

Apparently, we are condemned to suffer through a decade or two of hiss and crud from IBOC stations, until the few remaining listeners have been driven from the AM band and all the IBOC exciters are obsolete.

 

[davideduardo]

Yesterday during sales calls I made visits to new car dealers. And what struck me the most was not the lack of customers, but displays of satellite radio info in the showroom.. mmm what does Mel know that The failed Radio Alliance doesn't..

Radio, in general, makes money. Satellite does not, and has about $15 billion in losses to show for it. They can have lots of displays, but after 8 years they can't turn a profit.

 

[ddsparxx]

Maybe Amazon.com will actually have the Sony. It will have a long career as an ANALOG DX unit.

Amazon does carry the XDR-F1HD, if that's what you're looking for. That's where I got mine after I tried unsuccessfully at a Sony Style store.

 

[Savage]

Hear them speak: iBiquity complains that the radio industry isn't "embracing" (I guess that means "stampeding to buy our products, you stupid morons") HD Radio. Trade publications, notably RW, complain that receivers aren't widely available and blame retailers. Ibiquity and the Alliance blame receiver manufacturers for not getting more and smaller radios out. Everybody's complaining that Detroit isn't making HD standard in all their offerings. And everybody is blaming nobody in particular - actually, they ought to be blaming themselves - for the fact that HD-FM doesn't work reliably in many receiving locations and that they need ten times the current digital power. (Excuse me. Didn't YOU people design this thing??) :

Here's the way this works, in good old entrepreneurial, innovative and capitalist America (at least for now.)

If HD were the wonderful radio-saving advance its proponents claim it is:

Stations wouldn't be able to buy and install HD fast enough. Listeners would clamor for it; so would advertisers. Consumer electronics and car manufacturers would make sure plenty of products, home, personal and mobile, were flooding the market to meet the demand. Retailers would have giant, well-lit and stocked displays of a wide range of HD products. And it would all be because HD offers such a dramatic and cool listening experience, robust and reliable, attracting untold millions back to a newly resuscitated RADIO industry. And everyone would benefit.

There's only one tiny detail that's preventing all this from happening.

And that's: HD is an unwanted, semi-functional, real world benefit-deficient piece of engineering crap.

And somebody tap the shoulders of Tom Ray and his ilk: um....it's OVER. You had your shot at digital hegemony. And it flopped. Retailers, manufacturers, and most (read: non-Alliance broadcasters) are done with HD.

 

[calstymes]

rbrucecarter5 defined the "bottom line":

...analog coverage on AM with IBOC is very badly reduced, and the sidebands are very robust and are louder than the analog signal.

Agreed! And as I said in a related thread:

The old [name withheld] used to applaud IBOC as the technology that would save AM radio from becoming obsolete and now that it looks like IBOC has actually ruined AM radio reception instead, he continues to make excuses for this sorry product...

This does tend to boggle the mind! But then Savage put everything into perspective:

HD is an unwanted, semi-functional, real world benefit-deficient piece of engineering crap.

And somebody tap the shoulders of Tom Ray and his ilk: um....it's OVER. You had your shot at digital hegemony. And it flopped. Retailers, manufacturers, and most (read: non-Alliance broadcasters) are done with HD.

I have also heard that some engineers who work for Alliance broadcasters are done with HD too, but because of contractual obligations, it cannot {yet} be removed from their stations. Now if you were an engineer at an Alliance radio station, what would YOU do to obtain a sanction for the removal of IBOC?

I know that some folks who are reading this message board will be appreciative to receive any ideas for getting an Alliance broadcaster out from under the heavy handed thumb of iBiquity and its failed technology.

 

[KB1OKL]

I've had a very frustrating effort to buy one of those Sony HD tuners. I've hit every Frys in Dallas and Houston in the past week - one display model in each that they won't sell - a few Sangeans at 2 1/2 times the price. If there are no HD radios for sale - how can HD radio be the savior of radio??? I wanted to get the Sony - not for HD - but for the great reputation that tuner has as a DX tuner. Not available. If I had wanted to buy an HD radio, I wouldn't have paid more for the Sangean.

Frys stock in stores sucks. Their web site told me they had some available in Webster, TX, a wasted 120 mile round trip because they didn't even have a display unit. If I were a consumer with only lukewarm interest, I'd have given up on HD radio. No consumer would have the patience to put up with the cr_p I've put up with trying to find one. Maybe Amazon.com will actually have the Sony. It will have a long career as an ANALOG DX unit.

I've got one and it was a waste of money. I had a certain station on in the car today, I came in the house which has a terribly noisy R/F environment turned on the Marantz to the same station because I liked the song on and could hear it through the multipath but it was just about unlistenable so i figured I'd turn on the iBlock Sony since every one is always saying what a superior analog receiver it is, guess what, it couldn't even pull it out of the noise, they both had dipoles on the wall heading in the same direction and there was not a hint of it on the Sony. The Sony's dipole is about 2 ft lower on the wall, that is the only difference. The Marantz, a thrity year old receiver (a very good one) is more sensitive then the new whiz bang DSP HD receiver which everyone is raving about. Guess which one will still be working in thirty more years?

 

[clouseau]

I've got one and it was a waste of money. I had a certain station on in the car today, I came in the house which has a terribly noisy R/F environment turned on the Marantz to the same station because I liked the song on and could hear it through the multipath but it was just about unlistenable so i figured I'd turn on the iBlock Sony since every one is always saying what a superior analog receiver it is, guess what, it couldn't even pull it out of the noise, they both had dipoles on the wall heading in the same direction and there was not a hint of it on the Sony. The Sony's dipole is about 2 ft lower on the wall, that is the only difference. The Marantz, a thrity year old receiver (a very good one) is more sensitive then the new whiz bang DSP HD receiver which everyone is raving about. Guess which one will still be working in thirty more years?

HD radio aside...

I am in the business of Radio reception. By far, the Sony outperforms anything on the market today, IMHO.

Now understand... When radio reception fails at our facilities, my phone rings. We got Tropo? The phone rings. We get the primary station go to exciter only? The phone rings. The fanfare gets cranky and has a lot of hiss? The phone rings. It's not a curse, It's a fact. With the Sony and a any antenna, it will outperform anything you can buy. I've bought a lot. I know. I see yo have two different antennas.

I can have all kinds of hash and multipath and tropo and the like. I can drive up to the transmitter shack and be hearing another station on the car radio, but the Sony usually receives the correct station clearly.

I not saying you're wrong. I'm saying the Sony cost $99.00. I would buy them if they cost $699.99. They are so far superior to anything out there in terms of clear stereo reception in a high RF environment, it's crazy.

I accept your experience is different. Please do the same. They are the bomb, IMHO.

You want to sell your's, KB? I got a couple of new installs that will need one. And I got a shiny $50 bill here for yours. How about it. It's just a piece of junk, right?

Clouseau

 

[Play Freebird]

OKL, you mention "the house... has a terribly noisy R/F environment" which is probably why you have a bad impression of the Sony. If this noise is near-field RF garbage from PCs, switching power supplies, etc., nothing's going to fix it other than moving the antenna further away from the source.

I've been playing around with FM tuners for 40 years and consider the Sony to be a true breakthrough in terms of first-adjacent channel selectivity and stereo hiss reduction. Unlike older tuners with narrow selectivity, I think it sounds quite "musical" as well, when tuned to an analog station that's playing good source material with moderate processing. Compared with my Technics ST-9030, it's remarkable.

Connect it to a good antenna, stick a piece of black electrical tape over the "HD" logo, and I think you'll be impressed.

 

[KB1OKL]

OKL, you mention "the house... has a terribly noisy R/F environment" which is probably why you have a bad impression of the Sony. If this noise is near-field RF garbage from PCs, switching power supplies, etc., nothing's going to fix it other than moving the antenna further away from the source.

I've been playing around with FM tuners for 40 years and consider the Sony to be a true breakthrough in terms of first-adjacent channel selectivity and stereo hiss reduction. Unlike older tuners with narrow selectivity, I think it sounds quite "musical" as well, when tuned to an analog station that's playing good source material with moderate processing. Compared with my Technics ST-9030, it's remarkable.

Connect it to a good antenna, stick a piece of black electrical tape over the "HD" logo, and I think you'll be impressed.

I'm sure you guys have to be right, that's why I'm keeping it. I don't plan on being here for a long time.

 

[clouseau]

I'm sure you guys have to be right, that's why I'm keeping it. I don't plan on being here for a long time.

Darn!

Seriously, I love those things.

Clouseau

 

[willcail]

I have no problems with the Hybrid Digital radio format. if you have RF issues then you need to moved the receiver into another room or get yourself a better antenna. I pleased with the HD100 disconnect the dipole antenna and connect the receiver to an 12 foot coaxial cable then to an male to male adapter and on the other end a C.Crane FM Reflective Antenna. I'm using an Terk AM Loop antenna both passive and amplified, no issues with picking up distance AM stations. I was able to pick up an AM station out of Dayton Ohio HD feed with the amplified AM antenna. I'm now listening to AM again since HD takes care of the the static.


One thing I can't stand is the Luddites that are against digital broadcasting of any kind. Digital broadcasting in radio and TV are ten time better than analog.

 

[Savage]

And there you have it, friends, courtesy of willcail: an HD fan who can't simply defend his pet hybrid digital system. He has to resort to name-calling (the typical default mode of the pro-HD faction.) Thanks, will, for hauling out the tired old "Luddite" insult aimed at those with whom you disagree.

Tell us, will: which poster here is "against digital broadcasting of any kind?" Many contributors have made repeated suggestions for digital schemes which might actually work - as opposed to your beloved engineering botch-job HD.

A major irritant with HD Radio is the essential dishonesty and pit-bull tactics of the system's supporters. For example, the very first post I made in a DX thread on another discussion board on HD back in 2007, I was attacked by WOR's Tom Ray using language which I can't repeat here without getting edited. Add that to the endless lying by iBiquity (see related new topic) and technical deck-stacking by the Alliance, and it's small wonder HD is so hated.

willcail: typical "HD Good Will Ambassador."

 

[Savage]

"I was able to pick up an AM station HD feed out of Dayton OH using the amplified AM antenna."

Of course, this is an example of the behavior in which HD proponents actually believe most radio listeners will engage. Are you kidding? So, let's understand what you're arguing: you actually expect some guy who likes to listen to Rush and the ballgame and get the weather and stocks to:

a. Go out and buy an HD Radio (assuming he can find one) at the Alliance's low-low super-discount price point of SEVENTY NINE dollars (with most HD models costing more); then...

b. Pay a similar amount or possibly much more to buy an amplified antenna like the Terk or C. Crane, and mimic a broadcast engineer fiddling with various connectors and adaptors and orienting the antenna...

....as opposed to giving the OFF-ON-VOL knob a twist on all-analog GE SpaceMaker radio in his kitchen??

What, do you think this is 1927 and radio listeners will orient exotic antennas and find just the right regeneration spot on their Splitdorf TRF's twelve dials just so they can revel in the magic of hearing "Roxy's Gang" coming live from the NBC Blue NYC?

Here we the kind of self-deluding, out-of-touch attitude that has made HD Radio what it remains to this day. Which would be: a resounding flop.