Anyone listening to the yacht rock weekend on klos

[davideduardo]

That's OK. He's not planning on liquidating.

None of the companies that go into bankruptcy or liquidation planned on it.

Things don't work that way in this country. You keep talking about other countries, and they operate differently.

They operated "differently" because, for starters, the politically motivated FCC in the 30's did not want any company to have a national voice. But when consolidation occurred, the U.S. was so focused on local radio that nobody thought of buying just one or two stations in every market. Instead, they expanded local clusters and found that this did not increase radio revenue or even local market revenue.

Radio's biggest sales issue is that it is hard and complicated to buy. One order gets you national web and streaming and podcast coverage. One buy does the same with TV networks, still. But to buy the same "environment" (such as only country formats or only rock formats) on radio means a whole lot of local buys, even when done through rep firms. Separate invoices, separate affidavits, separate bill processing.

Obviously, this train has left the station. It's too bad, because radio does much better in its share of total ad revenue everywhere that there are "national stations". Only the folks at K-Love have figured this out and implemented it, proving the structure is possible.

That's why Pittman still prefers local to national.

Actually, national spot advertising gets much better rates than local spot rates. Even after agency and rep commissions, national is much more profitable. What is "cheap radio" is that bunch of quasi-networks that give dozens or even a hundred or so stations at cheap rates... but include a lot of low rated stations or ones in far distant suburbs that are in the ADI but not in the MSA.

 

[TheBigA]

Actually, national spot advertising gets much better rates than local spot rates.

You're contradicting what you said in the previous post.

Have you ever done national sales? Syndicated shows, whether on Premier or other providers, are really "budget buys" that are done to supplement format and station specific buys that have higher priority. They give really good added reach at very cheap prices.

 

[davideduardo]

Having worked for a 50,000 watt station at 1530 on the dial (KFBK, Sacramento), I can promise you, it's not a handicap. 120 miles away in the daytime, it's listenable. An hour before sunset in Yellowstone, 800 miles away, I've listened.

800 miles in a different direction---before I ever knew I would work there or co-anchor with her, I used to listen to Kitty O'Neal on the KFBK afternoon news in the winter months after leaving iHeart's hub in Phoenix to drive home.

But that is a unique station... in an area with good conductivity and those beautiful Franklin vertical dipole antennas that give amazing coverage. But compare that with 50 kw WSB in lousy conductivity Atlanta... where that station does not even cover the whole metro well.

In general, the rule applies: with equal conductivity and equal antennas (electrical height), 1 kw on 550 covers as well as 50 kw on 1500.

 

[davideduardo]

You're contradicting what you said in the previous post.

No, I am saying that national network gets lower per-spot rates. It's a "basket full of stations", some good, some not so good.

National Spot is a totally different thing, bought on a local station by station basis (or clusters of local stations) in each market the campaign is going to run in.

 

[TheBigA]

No, I am saying that national network gets lower per-spot rates. It's a "basket full of stations", some good, some not so good.

National Spot is a totally different thing, bought on a local station by station basis (or clusters of local stations) in each market the campaign is going to run in.

We were talking about national network. You changed the subject. Pittman does all three. He knows the rates.

As you say there are no "national" radio stations.

 

[Ed Nielson]

You know, up until you started mentioning it, I never thought at all about how many songs (particularly the ones called "Yacht Rock") came from LA studios. Where a song was recorded never was a point of interest to me, partly because I never found it to be very important to listeners, either.

People who are fans of the artists probably care about such things, more than the general public. Now, if someone did a documentary on the subject of Yacht Rock, it might be part of the narrative.

This is sort of like knowing the ingredients in a hot dog.

I think I can safely say that you don't want to know.

 

[TheBigA]

Now, if someone did a documentary on the subject of Yacht Rock, it might be part of the narrative.

Someone did. HBO. And it was.

 

[davideduardo]

We were talking about national network. You changed the subject. Pittman does all three. He knows the rates.

My point is that national network ads get low "bulk rates". National local spot buys get the highest rates.

As you say there are no "national" radio stations.

Yes, there is: K-Love. And K-Love proves the concept works at the listener level. Were it done commercially, advertisers would find it to be an easy buy with consistent national quality and a predetermined environment for ads. It works everywhere else it has been properly implemented commercially.

Several threads have contained complaints about the bad quality of advertisers on radio today. That's in a big part because most of the big national accounts don't use much radio or use it at all. And that is because it is hard to buy a specific environment nationally as nobody offers "country in every market" or classic hits" in every market. Too many negotiations, too much paperwork, to much copy or audio to be sent out, uncertainty if every station ran the "holiday weekend" spot... and too many invoices, some too late or needing revision.

 

[TheBigA]

My point is that national network ads get low "bulk rates". National local spot buys get the highest rates.

We weren't talking about national local. Two different things. You changed the subject in order to claim it makes your point.

Yes, there is: K-Love. And K-Love proves the concept works at the listener level.

They're not doing it for sales reasons, and your main justification for national radio is for sales. So it's not a real example.

Pittman owns the infrastructure to do national radio the minute it makes sense. Which isn't now.

In the meantime, he's running lots of national radio formats online.

 

[davideduardo]

We weren't talking about national local. Two different things. You changed the subject in order to claim it makes your point.

You are failing to distinguish between national campaigns that are composed of actual buys on individual local stations and run and billed by each station directly to the agency and, then, network buys that run each spot once in an audio feed and bill the agency from the network offices for "one network spot".

"National agency spot buys" are not the same as "National network buys". They are often not even handled by the same agency departments.

They're not doing it for sales reasons, and your main justification for national radio is for sales. So it's not a real example.

If the concept works, sales will follow. I've spent decades calling on agencies, and know they would love to be able to buy "one AC" station nationally (or whatever format or age appeal is needed). The fact that making one buy with "guaranteed coverage and delivery" is exactly what agencies want.

Pittman owns the infrastructure to do national radio the minute it makes sense. Which isn't now.

No, he does not. There are many markets where they have no stations, and many more where certain formats are not covered. A true "national station" should come close to 100% coverage of the whole nation, just like ABC, CBS and NBC TV.

 

[TheBigA]

"National agency spot buys" are not the same as "National network buys".

I know. As I said, it wasn't what we were talking about. You changed the subject.

If the concept works, sales will follow.

By the time it does, radio usage will be a fraction of what it is now.

No, he does not. There are many markets where they have no stations, and many more where certain formats are not covered.

Infrastructure doesn't mean stations. It means he has the formats and the means to distribute & sell them. Right now it makes no sense to own stations in every market. It's much more efficient to own a streaming service. Which is what he does. The future is not in owning radio stations.

 

[Yabadabado1]

But that is a unique station... in an area with good conductivity and those beautiful Franklin vertical dipole antennas that give amazing coverage. But compare that with 50 kw WSB in lousy conductivity Atlanta... where that station does not even cover the whole metro well.

I pick up WSM here in NE Ohio with nary a problem.

 

[yeoldeschool]

Someone ,somewhere, must have compiled a list of all the songs played that Fever and Flytrap would intro/outro during the studio scenes.

There is a complete, episode-by-episode music list for the entire show here:

https://www.hometheaterforum.com/co...-218-356-for-info.334984/page-18#post-4159007

The non-bold entries are the songs the Shout 2014 DVD release was unable to secure the rights for. That release is the most complete one available, and is worth the cost if you're a fan of the show.

For anyone interested, there is a complete and exacting list of all the edits and musical differences between that almost-complete Shout release and the original network runs in this hometheaterforum.com post. It's by the same author as the post linked above. Although it seems like an overwhelming screed, the total amount of sawing and scissoring done to the Shout episodes is nothing compared with past DVD releases, or with the "final" off-network syndicated versions everyone's familiar with -- see below.

Some shows play real songs for the network broadcast, and replace them with generic music for syndication.

In WKRP's era, most contracts licensed music for the network runs and reruns, plus a limited number of years in off-network reruns. Although those initial licenses might cover only the network broadcasts for very expensive songs, most songs easily survived the transition from network to back-end syndication. Only when the original licenses ran out would the ongoing off-network reruns suddenly get gutted of all their familiar music. (The syndicators would ship out or satellite new tape libraries to stations at that point.)

This is what happened to WKRP. When it went into syndication initially, most of its original music was still in tact! Songs like Pink Floyd's "Dogs" (from "Turkeys Away") and "Surfin' USA" by The Beach Boys were all present during the initial years of off-network syndication. Which is ironic, because those are among the handful of songs that the Shout people weren't able to license for their almost-complete DVD release.

 

[yeoldeschool]

In general, the rule applies: with equal conductivity and equal antennas (electrical height), 1 kw on 550 covers as well as 50 kw on 1500.

I asked you this somewhere on RD recently but don't think you noticed the question. Is there a known formula for calculating these equivalencies exactly? Something one can just plug a low frequency, a wattage figure, and a high frequency into, and get back the exact "equivalent wattage" figure for the high frequency?

 

[TheBigA]

In WKRP's era, most contracts licensed music for the network runs and reruns, plus a limited number of years in off-network reruns.

I don't think that's true. When Miami Vice came out in 1984, a big deal was made about the fact that the show used actual hit music rather than production music.

 

[michael hagerty]

I don't think that's true. When Miami Vice came out in 1984, a big deal was made about the fact that the show used actual hit music rather than production music.

It was true for WKRP and what came before it. WKRP left the air two years before Miami Vice premiered...and David Chase structured his budget so that the rights would stay with the show:

How 'Miami Vice' Could Afford Rolling Stones and Cyndi Lauper Songs in the Same Episode

'Miami Vice' managed to pack songs by 1 well-known artist after the next into its shows.

www.cheatsheet.com

That became the model going forward. For as long as The Sopranos circulates, Journey will be playing when the screen goes blank.

 

[vchimpanzee]

The supposed format of WKRP was also interesting. Was it rockin' Oldies, an AOR/Oldies hybrid maybe, with a nighttime R&B slow jam, love song dedication show. Someone ,somewhere, must have compiled a list of all the songs played that Fever and Flytrap would intro/outro during the studio scenes. And did they only have 2 DJ,s (Johnny Fever and Venus Flytrap) and no other air staff. Was it voice tracked the rest of the time?

Ok, ok, I know it's just a TV show, but I would have been a listener, if it WAS real. Still a classic show.

Andy called it "all rock" when someone thought Venus had a different format.

 

[Delete My Account]

"Soft jazz, lot of talk."

"No, we've got just a little talk.. maybe more than others..."

There were other DJs. Rex Earhart in middays (filled in for, on tape, by "some guy from Los Angeles" when at tennis tournaments) and overnights with Moss Stiger, revealed in the "New WKRP" to be a fan of bluesman Taj Mahal.

 

[Fighting Irish]

Gave up on this thread a week ago.

That said, who mixin this weekend?

 

[KilowattKat]

"Soft jazz, lot of talk."

"No, we've got just a little talk.. maybe more than others..."

There were other DJs. Rex Earhart in middays (filled in for, on tape, by "some guy from Los Angeles" when at tennis tournaments) and overnights with Moss Stiger, revealed in the "New WKRP" to be a fan of bluesman Taj Mahal.

You, for one, would definitely have the inside info on all things WKRP as PD back then. I don't know if you ever got Johnny to play more currents, though....Lol