Anyone listening to the yacht rock weekend on klos

[TheBigA]

If Field had not bought the on-decline "nowhere to go but down group of CBS stations, it is quite possible that Entercom would have been a survivor due to low debt, a good array of stations and good billing.

That's not the point. Field did what he did, and got the results that he got. Pittman hasn't made any major station purchases since becoming CEO. What he's done is kept radio expenses stable and maintain cash flow. His real focus has been on building a digital business, which he's done better than anyone else in radio. It may not be profitable, but it's growing, and that's what investors want to see.

But there was not enough effort to do things like creating national formats... which has been the saviour of radio in many other countries.

Because there's less money in national formats than in large market local radio. He knows that's true because he owns a national platform called Premiere. He has more national penetration than anyone using syndication, which saves him the cost of owning even more boat-anchor radio stations. Truely national radio won't work in this country because it's too big and too diverse. He's not going to get Bobby Bones or a country format cleared in NY, Chicago, or LA.

 

[ted chittenden]

I know in some cases an early FM top 40 took off because the AM had signal problems. WPGC being the best example, as DC only really has one good AM signal (630) in a very spread out market. Atlanta, where WZGC had early success as WQXI at night had trouble in the rapidly growing suburbs. KLIF got beat early by KNUS FM in the huge Dallas/Fort Worth market, after the two were combined into one market in F1973 making only WBAP, KRLD and possibly WFAA equally able to cover both cities. Poor Ft. Worth only stations KFJZ and KXOL, which had excellent numbers (especially KFJZ) before the markets were combined.

In other cases, it wasn't a signal problem as KXOK had a great signal but got wiped out by KSLQ. I would assume WQAM had no trouble covering all of South Florida, but still was hurt badly by WMYQ and later WHYI. Yet in some markets with good AM signals, the FM top 40 didn't really hurt the AM at all. Chicago where WLS had no problem at all with WDHF/WMET or even WEFM in the late 70s. WTIX in New Orleans (monster daytime signal) was strong into the early 80s.

Could it be that some of these top 40 stations like KSLQ sounded like hit music stations where some of the others were doing kind of an AOR approach to top 40 with boring, stoned sounding djs?

In San Francisco, top-40 FM stations had to navigate a series of multipath issues that made it impossible for all listeners in the city to hear all of the FM stations clearly. That certainly helped KFRC stay a top-40 station for as long as it did. I've never been to Denver or Buffalo, but I know (again from ARSA surveys and airchecks) that both WKBW (Buffalo) and KIMN (Denver) remained with the top-40 format into the middle of the decade, suggesting to me that there may have been (I certainly don't know for sure) some multipath issues in both of those markets as well.

 

[michael hagerty]

Could it be that some of these top 40 stations like KSLQ sounded like hit music stations where some of the others were doing kind of an AOR approach to top 40 with boring, stoned sounding djs?

I think your personal preference for high-energy Top 40 and distaste for AOR is really influencing your posts and your search for answers.

Let's go back to L.A.

Top 40 didn't get a whole lot more high energy than KTNQ. 45s at 48 rpm, instant cash giveaways, an air staff that included The Real Don Steele, Machine Gun Kelly, Andy Barber and Jack Armstrong.

And yet, in the July/August 1978 book, the teens broke this way:

1. KMET
2. KHJ (John Sebastian's "All Music 93" format)
3. KTNQ

And since radio stations could starve on teens alone, it was VERY bad news that NO Top 40---not KHJ, not KFI and certainly not KTNQ---ranked in the Top 5 in Women 18-34 or Men 18-34. KMET did.

Top 40 died. MTV altered the culture and what hit music sounded like. When CHR began its dominance in the 80s, it was a different animal from the AM Top 40 of 5-25 years before.

 

[briancraig]

I think your personal preference for high-energy Top 40 and distaste for AOR is really influencing your posts and your search for answers.

Let's go back to L.A.

Top 40 didn't get a whole lot more high energy than KTNQ. 45s at 48 rpm, instant cash giveaways, an air staff that included The Real Don Steele, Machine Gun Kelly, Andy Barber and Jack Armstrong.

And yet, in the July/August 1978 book, the teens broke this way:

1. KMET
2. KHJ (John Sebastian's "All Music 93" format)
3. KTNQ

And since radio stations could starve on teens alone, it was VERY bad news that NO Top 40---not KHJ, not KFI and certainly not KTNQ---ranked in the Top 5 in Women 18-34 or Men 18-34. KMET did.

Top 40 died. MTV altered the culture and what hit music sounded like. When CHR began its dominance in the 80s, it was a different animal from the AM Top 40 of 5-25 years before.

You are certainly right that I find boss radio style top 40 from the late 60s and early 70s to be the best and the Real Don Steele is my favorite dj of all time.

Some of the long running AOR stations like KSHE or WEBN have fascinating histories but for the most part, I don’t find that style of radio all that interesting.

We don’t know how close the teen numbers are. In the Spring of 78, KTNQ is first with teens, second in the fall of 1978 and Winter 1979 and third in Spring of 79. KMET is third in the Spring of 1978 and 1st in the other books I referenced.

As I have admitted, I don’t get the appeal of late 70s KMET at all. I was good friends with Shana and spent hours talking to her on the phone. Got to know her when she worked in the record promotion business. She always said that 1970s L.A. was its own “vibe” and you really can’t understand it if you were not there and that KMET was the perfect soundtrack for that era, just as KHJ would have been for the 1960s.

 

[TheBigA]

She always said that 1970s L.A. was its own “vibe” and you really can’t understand it if you were not there and that KMET was the perfect soundtrack for that era, just as KHJ would have been for the 1960s.

I get what she's saying. I think Jim Ladd wrote about it. There was a connection between the music and the personalities that came across to the listeners. They felt involved in a way that didn't happen in other formats. There was a similar connection at WNEW in NY and WMMS in Cleveland.

KROQ picked up on that "vibe" and milked it for what it was worth in the late 80s and 90s.

 

[Weiserguy]

WKRP trivia question:

What was the frequency and wattage of WKRP?

Hint: it's on the coverage map that's on the WKRP lobby wall by Jennifer's desk

It was 1520, or 1530 (not absolutely sure). And in the pilot that poster said 50,000 watts. In subsequent episodes it was changed to 5000 watts. Right?

I see K.M., Chimp and KilowattKat beat me to the answer. Hat tip, guys.

 

[Mark Roberts]

In San Francisco, top-40 FM stations had to navigate a series of multipath issues that made it impossible for all listeners in the city to hear all of the FM stations clearly. That certainly helped KFRC stay a top-40 station for as long as it did. I've never been to Denver or Buffalo, but I know (again from ARSA surveys and airchecks) that both WKBW (Buffalo) and KIMN (Denver) remained with the top-40 format into the middle of the decade, suggesting to me that there may have been (I certainly don't know for sure) some multipath issues in both of those markets as well.

I doubt there would have been many multipath issues in Denver. Except for downtown, and the once-independent community of Highlands immediately to the west, terrain is mostly flat. Tall buildings downtown could have created some multipath but those effects would have been limited to downtown. The foothills would be another matter, and FM reception in Boulder might be a little more difficult, depending upon location of both the transmitter and the receiver, but the majority of the area is just fine for FM.

I don't have enough history in the market to be able to hazard a guess for why KIMN lingered in the format.

 

[Mark Roberts]

The irony was that all-disco stations could only be found on FM.

Not always. In Kansas City, KJLA, "Your 24-Hour Dancing Machine", was on AM. Though not the best signal, I was able to pick it up, barely, at my grandmother's house 90 miles northeast of Kansas City in the daytime. It had brief, moderate success and then started to fizzle. It went to Top 40 in 1980, an opening made possible because former Top 40 KBEQ(FM), a Super-Q-style station, decided to go to AOR that year. KBEQ went back to Top 40/CHR the next year, and KJLA had a problem.

I think the biggest problem with disco was the fact that it was dominated by black artists and many white teenagers, especially teenage boys, resented that. When disco died in 1980, almost all activity by African-american artists in the top-40, especially upbeat songs, died and it didn't start to revive until Michael Jackson's 1983 "Thriller," album and Prince's 1982 "1999" album.

And the gay subculture angle too. Indefensible bigotry in both cases.

Yep...though I doubt that anything by Patrick Cowley would have gotten onto any kind of broadcast signal outside of the first 19 FM channels, due to explicit content. Sylvester would have been more likely.

 

[KilowattKat]

It was 1520, or 1530 (not absolutely sure). And in the pilot that poster said 50,000 watts. In subsequent episodes it was changed to 5000 watts. Right?

I see K.M., Chimp and KilowattKat beat me to the answer. Hat tip, guys.

Interesting about the lower powered signal in later episodes. If K.M. is correct about the reason why, then there must gave been radio professionals consulting for the show.

 

[davideduardo]

That's not the point. Field did what he did, and got the results that he got. Pittman hasn't made any major station purchases since becoming CEO. What he's done is kept radio expenses stable and maintain cash flow. His real focus has been on building a digital business, which he's done better than anyone else in radio. It may not be profitable, but it's growing, and that's what investors want to see.

Investors in radio today are looking at liquidation value, not Even the analysts who track radio or broadcasting, a shrinking group, follow issues like secured debt and the like.

Because there's less money in national formats than in large market local radio.

That has never been tried, so there is no proof. I am talking about a "national station" that is broadcast in every market in the U.S. 24/7. The only U.S. example we have is K-Love, but it is not commercial. In nations like France or Germany or Spain or Chile or Colombia, those stations get most of the agency radio business and, more important, in those countries, radio gets a higher percentage of all ad revenue.

Even those Premier shows don't run everywhere and are not consistent in schedule and local stations are not all as attractive to advertisers.

He knows that's true because he owns a national platform called Premiere. He has more national penetration than anyone using syndication, which saves him the cost of owning even more boat-anchor radio stations.

But he has zero national stations, the model that is working in much of the rest of the world.

Truely national radio won't work in this country because it's too big and too diverse. He's not going to get Bobby Bones or a country format cleared in NY, Chicago, or LA.

All that fails the tests in other relatively large and diverse nations*. And, after all, national TV networks in the prime viewing hours has been the major element in the success of TV nationally since the late 1940's. And the most successful internet offerings are truly national.

* Chile, for example, is longer than the continental U.S. is wide, with diverse cultural subsets and economies.

 

[TheBigA]

Investors in radio today are looking at liquidation value,

Which is why Pittman is focused on digital, not radio.

I am talking about a "national station" that is broadcast in every market in the U.S. 24/7.

I'm talking about national spot sales, not programming.

Even those Premier shows don't run everywhere and are not consistent in schedule and local stations are not all as attractive to advertisers.

Advertisers don't buy shows, they buy audience. Premiere clears spots in all rated markets.

And, after all, national TV networks in the prime viewing hours has been the major element in the success of TV nationally since the late 1940's.

Even TV network shows aren't cleared in all US markets 24/7.

 

[davideduardo]

Which is why Pittman is focused on digital, not radio.

Which has zero liquidation value. The only assets are time-limited contracts.

I'm talking about national spot sales, not programming.

And the way that national accounts buy in other nations pushes national stations to the top of the priority, with individual local stations at the bottom.

Kluge and Metromedia found this out when they set up individual single market stations in nations like Germany and Russia, and found that "nobody" bought local radio. So, some years later when Kluge wanted to buy stations in Chile, we only looked at Arica-to-Puntareanas national stations, not individual ones.

Advertisers don't buy shows, they buy audience. Premiere clears spots in all rated markets.

But with varied demographics and sometimes including marginal coverage stations and never the same format in every market nationally.

Have you ever done national sales? Syndicated shows, whether on Premier or other providers, are really "budget buys" that are done to supplement format and station specific buys that have higher priority. They give really good added reach at very cheap prices.

Even TV network shows aren't cleared in all US markets 24/7.

Nearly all prime shows are cleared on all affiliates nationally, and have been for about 70 years. It was only in the freeze years when some markets did not have enough stations for all the networks that dual network affiliates could pick and choose shows. Or when there were (insert the word "racist" here) stations that would not carry "All in the Family" and the like due to content.

 

[TheBigA]

Which has zero liquidation value. The only assets are time-limited contracts.

That's OK. He's not planning on liquidating.

And the way that national accounts buy in other nations pushes national stations to the top of the priority, with individual local stations at the bottom.

Things don't work that way in this country. You keep talking about other countries, and they operate differently.

Have you ever done national sales? Syndicated shows, whether on Premier or other providers, are really "budget buys" that are done to supplement format and station specific buys that have higher priority. They give really good added reach at very cheap prices.

That's why Pittman still prefers local to national.

 

[michael hagerty]

Interesting about the lower powered signal in later episodes.

Having worked for a 50,000 watt station at 1530 on the dial (KFBK, Sacramento), I can promise you, it's not a handicap. 120 miles away in the daytime, it's listenable. An hour before sunset in Yellowstone, 800 miles away, I've listened.

800 miles in a different direction---before I ever knew I would work there or co-anchor with her, I used to listen to Kitty O'Neal on the KFBK afternoon news in the winter months after leaving iHeart's hub in Phoenix to drive home.

If K.M. is correct about the reason why, then there must gave been radio professionals consulting for the show.

Steve Marshall (story editor, story consultant, producer and writer) came to the show from the program director's job at KNX-FM. He was with WKRP for its entire run.

Now, in the real world, there were plenty of 50,000-watt AMs that couldn't get out of their own way. The year WKRP launched, KFI had a 2.3 and was in 17th place in the January-February book. The joke (maybe not much of a joke, really) was that you could turn the transmitter off when Lohman and Barkley signed off at 10 a.m. and not turn it back on until 6:00 the next morning and the station wouldn't lose any ratings.

But nobody's gonna explain that to a tv viewer...it's easier to understand if they're hampered by what a casual viewer thinks is low power.

 

[KilowattKat]

Having worked for a 50,000 watt station at 1530 on the dial (KFBK, Sacramento), I can promise you, it's not a handicap. 120 miles away in the daytime, it's listenable. An hour before sunset in Yellowstone, 800 miles away, I've listened.

800 miles in a different direction---before I ever knew I would work there or co-anchor with her, I used to listen to Kitty O'Neal on the KFBK afternoon news in the winter months after leaving iHeart's hub in Phoenix to drive home.



Steve Marshall (story editor, story consultant, producer and writer) came to the show from the program director's job at KNX-FM. He was with WKRP for its entire run.

Now, in the real world, there were plenty of 50,000-watt AMs that couldn't get out of their own way. The year WKRP launched, KFI had a 2.3 and was in 17th place in the January-February book. The joke (maybe not much of a joke, really) was that you could turn the transmitter off when Lohman and Barkley signed off at 10 a.m. and not turn it back on until 6:00 the next morning and the station wouldn't lose any ratings.

But nobody's gonna explain that to a tv viewer...it's easier to understand if they're hampered by what a casual viewer thinks is low power.

The supposed format of WKRP was also interesting. Was it rockin' Oldies, an AOR/Oldies hybrid maybe, with a nighttime R&B slow jam, love song dedication show. Someone ,somewhere, must have compiled a list of all the songs played that Fever and Flytrap would intro/outro during the studio scenes. And did they only have 2 DJ,s (Johnny Fever and Venus Flytrap) and no other air staff. Was it voice tracked the rest of the time?

Ok, ok, I know it's just a TV show, but I would have been a listener, if it WAS real. Still a classic show.

 

[TheBigA]

Someone ,somewhere, must have compiled a list of all the songs played

Did they actually PLAY songs? Because if they did, they would have had to pay huge TV royalties to the writers and performers. Typically TV shows try to avoid playing actual songs. Some shows play real songs for the network broadcast, and replace them with generic music for syndication.

 

[michael hagerty]

The supposed format of WKRP was also interesting. Was it rockin' Oldies, an AOR/Oldies hybrid maybe, with a nighttime R&B slow jam, love song dedication show.

I always thought it was a very smart calculation---don't make it an identifiable format, so you don't turn off people who don't like a certain type of radio.

Someone ,somewhere, must have compiled a list of all the songs played that Fever and Flytrap would intro/outro during the studio scenes.

Well, only Johnny, but more than a list---a three hour production:

WKRP: Johnny Fever

www.awphooey.com

And did they only have 2 DJ,s (Johnny Fever and Venus Flytrap) and no other air staff. Was it voice tracked the rest of the time?

A question you're not supposed to ask, and a choice made by the writers and producers to maintain focus.

Think about The Mary Tyler Moore Show. Was Ted Baxter WJM News' only on-air talent? In a city the size of Minneapolis, why aren't there 20 reporters?

Because that would be a distraction.

 

[Weiserguy]

Did they actually PLAY songs? Because if they did, they would have had to pay huge TV royalties to the writers and performers. Typically TV shows try to avoid playing actual songs. Some shows play real songs for the network broadcast, and replace them with generic music for syndication.

Which was exactly what happened. And why it was so difficult for WKRP to get released for video-to-home on VHS, much less DVD. There was a constant battle to get music licensing rights, and video purchasers rebelled when they discovered producers had substituted more generic music for the actual songs the episodes had aired with.

And yes, they actually played songs. Occasionally a current, but a lot of what "Dr. Johnny Fever" played in his AM Drive shift was classic R&R or R&B. (Though the station was supposed to be an AOR, and the PD was constantly trying to get Johnny to play more current stuff -- an ongoing joke.) They largely played snippets, not full songs, an intro which faded to background as dialog covered it, or an outro fading into other scripted dialog. The only time viewers heard long excerpts of music was in the "Venus Flytrap" scenes, where the "Quiet Storm" style music fit as mood music under whatever the dialog was. So while it wasn't, strictly speaking, a music show, particular songs were chosen to complement the story line and script, which made substituting generic pablum particularly noticeable to viewers who'd seen and enjoyed the originals.

 

[Weiserguy]

And did they only have 2 DJ,s (Johnny Fever and Venus Flytrap) and no other air staff. Was it voice tracked the rest of the time?

There were others, occasionally alluded to in dialog, but you rarely saw them, and almost never "on air". When you saw another DJ on air, he was invariably a he, and a substitute. (The name Moss Steiger was trotted out sometimes, but I don't think that character ever actually appeared in any episode.) One exception was an episode each where Jennifer or Bailey was thrown into an on-air situation, and of course they came through successfully.

Think about The Mary Tyler Moore Show. Was Ted Baxter WJM News' only on-air talent? In a city the size of Minneapolis, why aren't there 20 reporters?

And where did the weatherman disappear to after the first season, and could an hourly newscast be produced from that tiny little bullpen with only three writers/producers? (The guys in the background who never had any dialog.) I doubt the #3 station in Market #200 could have survived with that small a news staff. But as Mike said, it was a conscious choice to focus on the main characters, not a stable of ancillary ones. (Or maybe he didn't say exactly that...)

 

[Mark Roberts]

Think about The Mary Tyler Moore Show. Was Ted Baxter WJM News' only on-air talent? In a city the size of Minneapolis, why aren't there 20 reporters?

Because that would be a distraction.

Suspension of disbelief and all that.

MTM actually reminded me of the small-market TV station I grew up with in my pre-teen years in Iowa, doing a lot with a limited staff. I’m sure the big-city setting came about for MTM because there were more story lines possible in Minneapolis compared to a place like Ottumwa.

In the next decade, SCTV had a similar basic conceit though, of course, played up to the hilt and set in a fictional small city rather than a real city of some size. To this day, every time I see Eugene Levy, I’m reminded of Earl Camembert.