Are diehard listeners of this format TOO fickle?

[davideduardo]

Here's a comment Mr. Kepler makes about concert goers:

Kepler strikes an upbeat note: "Even with the challenges facing everyone in every business, this is a very exciting time for the format: with new artists coming on board; perhaps the busiest summer tour schedule I've seen in recent years; and the fact that today our format holds more of a solid, unique and exclusive position compared to other radio formats than ever before.

It sure seems to me a couple industry folks aren't exactly on the same sheet of music, er, I mean "radio."

That comment does not mean that concert attendance is an indication of song or format appeal... it means there are still plenty of active artists to sustain the format into the future. Many formats have died due to the lack of new music

The uniqueness of the format is a valid remark... as other niche commercial formats like classical die off, SJ is one of the few places where a station in the format is pretty much assured of no additional direct competition... if the 25-54 responds, then the format will be sustainable.

 

[davideduardo]

This all reminds me of how the record industry went down the toilet. Remember some young college kid who figured out how to transfer mp3 files and the record companies denied it would do anything to them? Radio in same state of denial.

Radio has embraced the web, cell phone apps, texting, social networking and other innovations... the issue is how to integrate them into a revenue model (which is the same issue Twitter is trying to resolve).

 

[AC Tones]

Amazing, now that Mr. Kepler has spoken, all of the sudden this IS a "niche" format. I thought all formats were "niche" formats, at least they were a few weeks ago on this board. I thought this format got old with its listeners and was destined to go the way of the Beautiful Music format, predicted by one almighty voice on this very board a few weeks ago. Funny how I am NOW mysteriously seeing my own words from weeks ago regurgitated to me as truth, but not long ago these same words were considered those of a rogue, uneducated listener who doesn't know anything about radio. This has become one colossal comedy, a tragic one at that.

Now here's a memo from the president of "Listeners Fed Up With The Smooth Jazz Network": IT'S OVER for corporate radio. You have had your chance. For years, you have let down your listeners. You have let down artists. You have let down your affiliates. You may have the infrastructure, the influence, and advertising revenue FOR NOW. But once Internet broadcasters like myself can offer REAL competition and approach potential affiliates with far and away a superior product FREE OF CHARGE, with no overhead, barters, or unrealistic expectations/pressure to generate advertising revenue, then you all will be finding yourselves a new "niche" format to peddle. And here is another newsflash. I have not NOR do I ever expect to make ONE DIME from what I am doing. I am fully prepared to keep my stream operational and current from the comfort of my own home, FREE TO MY LISTENERS AND FUTURE AFFILIATES. I have worked hard and had a successful career outside of radio, and I am set for life. I am doing this merely for the intrinsic value of knowing I can bring enjoyment to someone else's day through the gift of music. Therefore, I am in the position to give my product away with no strings attached FREE for everyone to enjoy it, even on a terrestrial radio signal. Let's see corporate radio regurgitate these words.

 

[Nock]

This all reminds me of how the record industry went down the toilet. Remember some young college kid who figured out how to transfer mp3 files and the record companies denied it would do anything to them? Radio in same state of denial.

Radio has embraced the web, cell phone apps, texting, social networking and other innovations... the issue is how to integrate them into a revenue model (which is the same issue Twitter is trying to resolve).

Radio did EXACTLY what the record companies did. They took all their money and hired lobbyists to try and shut down streaming. David tell me you don't remember that? How has that worked out for Crap Channel and Crumulus?

Nock

 

[davideduardo]

Radio did EXACTLY what the record companies did. They took all their money and hired lobbyists to try and shut down streaming. David tell me you don't remember that? How has that worked out for Crap Channel and Crumulus?

Uh.... the lobbying was to put a reasonable limit on the RIAA fees on streaming. And the broadcast industry does not hire lobbyinsts... they have a trade organization which has lobbying among its main functions.

 

[majaman78]

This all reminds me of how the record industry went down the toilet. Remember some young college kid who figured out how to transfer mp3 files and the record companies denied it would do anything to them? Radio in same state of denial.


Radio has embraced the web, cell phone apps, texting, social networking and other innovations... the issue is how to integrate them into a revenue model (which is the same issue Twitter is trying to resolve).

Radio did EXACTLY what the record companies did. They took all their money and hired lobbyists to try and shut down streaming. David tell me you don't remember that? How has that worked out for Crap Channel and Crumulus?

Nock

Here's what terrestrial (corporate) radio does in a nutshell...and now you know why you hear the same "trash" on a "smooth jazz" or "Hot A/C format"

Ever wonder why commercial radio has become a mind-numbing repetition of the same songs by Jessica Simpson and Celine Dion? It's not just you. Corporate radio in every town has become a wasteland. And in many cases, it's a crime.

An investigation airing tonight on ABC News "Primetime" exposes illegal payola across the radio dial. Radio conglomerates that control hundreds of local stations are taking bribes to endlessly spin major label acts, keeping independent artists off the air.

FCC Commissioner Jonathan Adlestein calls big radio payola "potentially the most widespread and flagrant violation of FCC rules in the history of American broadcasting." But the FCC's Republican leadership remains reluctant to crack down against the corporate radio giants that have sold off our airwaves.

 

[davideduardo]

Amazing, now that Mr. Kepler has spoken, all of the sudden this IS a "niche" format. I thought all formats were "niche" formats, at least they were a few weeks ago on this board.

As I said before, all formats are niche formats, since there is none that has mass, majority appeal. Howevewr, each format has a varying depth of appeal. CHR might reach a quarter of all persons in a market on a cume basis (and about 5% on a share basis( while formats like urban, all sports, news/talk and SJ might reach considerably less than 10%. So the niche within the highly fragmented environment of all the niches in radio programming is smaller for SJ and such formats. That's why we don't see today or in the past instances of multiple <sj stations in one sinle market.

Big nichees get multiple players. Small niches get one or none.

I thought this format got old with its listeners and was destined to go the way of the Beautiful Music format, predicted by one almighty voice on this very board a few weeks ago.

That is what is happening. The format demos were getting so old and unsalable that stations could not make money in a down economy. Those that have survived are looking for ways to make the format more youthful. Interestingly, in one R&R convention around 1990, smooth jazz was described in one presentation as the new Beautiful Music and in another (by a noted and successful consultant as "songs you've never heard by people you've never heard of."

So, yes, right now SJ is going the way of Beautiful Music. The issue is whether, out of the format, a new version can evolve, just as Smooth Jazz took much of the style and mechanics of Beautiful Music when KTWV was created.

Tip: no station is ever going to go for a free format based on songs that most people truly have never heard before. On radio, that does not work. On the web, anything that pleases you works.

 

[davideduardo]

FCC Commissioner Jonathan Adlestein calls big radio payola "potentially the most widespread and flagrant violation of FCC rules in the history of American broadcasting." But the FCC's Republican leadership remains reluctant to crack down against the corporate radio giants that have sold off our airwaves.[/i]

Gee, that was closing in on a decade ago, and the result of the FCC investigation: nothing. Radio stations that were selling time to record labels are no different than radio stations selling time to colon cleansers. However, the record business no longer has much money for such promotion, so the ad buys pretty much ended and the whole field of independent promotion lost its funding, too.

Tip: the record labels now are trying to get radio to pay them, so bad is their economic situation.

 

[majaman78]

Tip: the record labels now are trying to get radio to pay them, so bad is their economic situation.

Wow, you mean Universal Music Group, Sony Music Entertainment, Warner Music Group, and EMI Group are in worse financial shape than CC, Entercom, Citadel, XM/Sirius, and the rest of this radio based dreck ???

 

[AC Tones]

Tip: the record labels now are trying to get radio to pay them, so bad is their economic situation.

Wow, you mean Universal Music Group, Sony Music Entertainment, Warner Music Group, and EMI Group are in worse financial shape than CC, Entercom, Citadel, XM/Sirius, and the rest of this radio based dreck ???

My funeral song for corporate radio and big labels for their shortsightedness and greed over the last two decades. Sorry guys, I need to have a little fun with this. It's obvious we are NEVER going to convince corporate apologists of our way of thinking, so I just need to make myself chuckle at the whole thing!!!!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM39yIKoSo4

 

[davideduardo]

Wow, you mean Universal Music Group, Sony Music Entertainment, Warner Music Group, and EMI Group are in worse financial shape than CC, Entercom, Citadel, XM/Sirius, and the rest of this radio based dreck ???

Yes, the record companies are in vastly worse shape.

XM / Sirius does not have the radio model, as it derives 99% or more of its revenue from listeners, not advertisers, and is not free to those listeners.

Entercom is actually, on operations, in reasonably food shape. Its stations as a group produce a lot of cash, but debt service cuts that. Entercom has recently received several "buy" recommendations in fact. Clear, with a bit less debt, is a huge cash cow based on operations both in outdoor and radio. If it goes through reorgainization, it will be a very attractive company. Citadel overpaid for the Disney assets, and once they are spun off, will also be a fairly decent company. A good quote to remember is the one from the CEO of Cemex, the huge building materials company: "If we´planned for events that take place once every hundred years, we would never make any moves at all." Radio, like nearly every other industry in America... and the world... was hit by surprise by the downturn. Using factors brought on by the economy in order to blame radio for programming changes is disingenuous.

 

[gr8oldies]

"Elevator music for yuppies" was another popular term for "new age" music as I recall. Wasn't there a WBMW?

 

[majaman78]

Wow, you mean Universal Music Group, Sony Music Entertainment, Warner Music Group, and EMI Group are in worse financial shape than CC, Entercom, Citadel, XM/Sirius, and the rest of this radio based dreck ???

Yes, the record companies are in vastly worse shape.

XM / Sirius does not have the radio model, as it derives 99% or more of its revenue from listeners, not advertisers, and is not free to those listeners.

Entercom is actually, on operations, in reasonably food shape. Its stations as a group produce a lot of cash, but debt service cuts that. Entercom has recently received several "buy" recommendations in fact. Clear, with a bit less debt, is a huge cash cow based on operations both in outdoor and radio. If it goes through reorgainization, it will be a very attractive company. Citadel overpaid for the Disney assets, and once they are spun off, will also be a fairly decent company. A good quote to remember is the one from the CEO of Cemex, the huge building materials company: "If we´planned for events that take place once every hundred years, we would never make any moves at all." Radio, like nearly every other industry in America... and the world... was hit by surprise by the downturn. Using factors brought on by the economy in order to blame radio for programming changes is disingenuous.

Yeah keep blaming the current "recession" for radio's woes while the industry has been in obvious decline for years based on this article...

http://www.bostonglobe.com/advertiser/datacenter/datacenter.aspx?id=1404

[URL to original source provided as a courtesy by Radio-Info]

Decline in Terrestrial Radio Audience
In an average week, 230 million Americans tune in to traditional radio. A large audience to be sure, but one in sharp decline from just five years ago. During the heady days of radio consolidation during the late 90s, stations increased their spot loads and promotional clutter. Listeners got annoyed, resulting in lower AQH ratings and time listening. During this same period, new on-demand devices, like MP3 players, were introduced and gained popular momentum.[EDIT*]


And please post a link (I'm sure you can even make one up) that shows me radio companies doing better than the record companies.


[EDIT*=Entry truncated because amount exceeds that permitted under Fair Use]

 

[davideduardo]

Yeah keep blaming the current "recession" for radio's woes while the industry has been in obvious decline for years based on this article...

Decline in Terrestrial Radio Audience
In an average week, 230 million Americans tune in to traditional radio. A large audience to be sure, but one in sharp decline from just five years ago. During the heady days of radio consolidation during the late 90s, stations increased their spot loads and promotional clutter. Listeners got annoyed, resulting in lower AQH ratings and time listening. During this same period, new on-demand devices, like MP3 players, were introduced and gained popular momentum. According to Billboard Radio Monitor, the number of ears listening [to terrestrial radio] every day has slowly slipped to about what it was in 1994. The audience of 18- to 24-year olds, a demographic particularly beloved by advertisers, has fallen nearly 22% since 1999. The sharp decline in radio advertising revenue reflects this change: In the radio expansion period of 1996-2000, total radio revenue (excluding network radio) grew 12%. Yet from 2000-2004, the increase was a meager .3% and after 2004 has fallen roughly 15%

Radio AQH has slowly declined over the last 22 years, since 1987. The reach of radio is as high as it has ever been in the 44 year history of Arbitron measurement... There were no MP3 players in 1987, no satellite radio, no iPods, no smart cell phones, no Internet streams...

Radio commercial loads were at the highest in the 50's and 60's, so much so the FCC had to put in a renewal expectancy condition to keep stations from going to 20 minutes and more an hour. The article seems to come from a perspective of very recent data, with no knowledge of the history of music based radio.

Radio revenues were growing slowly until 2007, and have only been off for the last two years.

No, radio is not a growth industry based on terrestrial transmitters, but it is very profitable based on operations (EBITDA). But content is a growing industry, and broadcasters are participating in alternate or alternative delivery. Remember, some new technologies have no revenue model... Twitter does not make a profit yet, either.

And please post a link (I'm sure you can even make one up) that shows me radio companies doing better than the record companies.

If you have a brokerage account, you can check the financials for all the companies. Since the record industry is mostly European owned, you have to be able to access foreign stock research. I can't give you copyright material and the board would remove it even if I tried...

Here is some oblique data on EMI... http://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2009...-terra-firma-dumps-in-another-45-million.html

WEA for US only... http://www.hoovers.com/warner-music/--ID__103153,ticker__WMG--/free-co-fin-factsheet.xhtml Note that the $200 million 2007 profit was replaced by a $54 million 2008 loss.

Sony and Universal are in the same conditions in general.

These companies make the pure radio plays look like very attractive investments, something the market has been reflecting in the last couple of months.

 

[AC Tones]

"Elevator music for yuppies" was another popular term for "new age" music as I recall. Wasn't there a WBMW?

Yep, there sure was, smart guy. And it was a well-programmed station back in the 80s until a few other smart guys got their hands on it and destroyed it as well. You sour pusses can call the music whatever you want. The point is, there is a market for it, no matter what outdated statistics/models/groupthink you want to throw out to dispel listeners' opinions on this board. But you guys have never paid attention to your listeners anyway, so why start now? Just go ahead and spin Zeppelin's "Stairway To Heaven" for the umteenth time and leave the "elevator music" to the experts who are completely in touch with their listeners, who have an appreciation for fresh, feel good music and the finer things in life. Now let me get back to that wonderful glass of Opus One I was enjoying with my Steak Au Poivre.

 

[majaman78]

Yeah keep blaming the current "recession" for radio's woes while the industry has been in obvious decline for years based on this article...

Decline in Terrestrial Radio Audience
In an average week, 230 million Americans tune in to traditional radio. A large audience to be sure, but one in sharp decline from just five years ago. During the heady days of radio consolidation during the late 90s, stations increased their spot loads and promotional clutter. Listeners got annoyed, resulting in lower AQH ratings and time listening. During this same period, new on-demand devices, like MP3 players, were introduced and gained popular momentum. According to Billboard Radio Monitor, the number of ears listening [to terrestrial radio] every day has slowly slipped to about what it was in 1994. The audience of 18- to 24-year olds, a demographic particularly beloved by advertisers, has fallen nearly 22% since 1999. The sharp decline in radio advertising revenue reflects this change: In the radio expansion period of 1996-2000, total radio revenue (excluding network radio) grew 12%. Yet from 2000-2004, the increase was a meager .3% and after 2004 has fallen roughly 15%

And please post a link (I'm sure you can even make one up) that shows me radio companies doing better than the record companies.


If you have a brokerage account, you can check the financials for all the companies. Since the record industry is mostly European owned, you have to be able to access foreign stock research. I can't give you copyright material and the board would remove it even if I tried...

Here is some oblique data on EMI... http://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2009...-terra-firma-dumps-in-another-45-million.html

WEA for US only... http://www.hoovers.com/warner-music/--ID__103153,ticker__WMG--/free-co-fin-factsheet.xhtml Note that the $200 million 2007 profit was replaced by a $54 million 2008 loss.

Sony and Universal are in the same conditions in general.

These companies make the pure radio plays look like very attractive investments, something the market has been reflecting in the last couple of months.

These numbers look quite poor... http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=CCMO.PK

Here's another look at their disasterous financial statement...

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=CCMO.PK

Yeah, too bad they just couldn't use EBITA. But, sadly, they must pay taxes and all that interest on $24.5 billion.

Can't wait for these guys to go under! And they deserve to!

 

[davideduardo]

Yeah, too bad they just couldn't use EBITA. But, sadly, they must pay taxes and all that interest on $24.5 billion.

Can't wait for these guys to go under! And they deserve to!

If there is a forced bankruptcy, the company will survive, but with less debt. THis is fortunate, as the tens of thousands of employees of the radio, outdoor and international divisions will for the most part continue.

 

[davideduardo]

Yep, there sure was, smart guy. And it was a well-programmed station back in the 80s until a few other smart guys got their hands on it and destroyed it as well.

WBMW was owned by Infinity going back to when they bought it some time before SJ was even a recognized format until 2000 when Infinity merged into CBS. During the entire period the company had the same management, headed by Mel Karmazin.

 

[majaman78]

Yeah, too bad they just couldn't use EBITA. But, sadly, they must pay taxes and all that interest on $24.5 billion.

Can't wait for these guys to go under! And they deserve to!

If there is a forced bankruptcy, the company will survive, but with less debt. THis is fortunate, as the tens of thousands of employees of the radio, outdoor and international divisions will for the most part continue.

It doesn't really seem like it will survive. If they do, it will never look like it currently does now.
Here's an interesting link I came across outlining what might happen.

http://www.reclaimthemedia.org/corporate_power/consolidation/radio_aftere_clear_channel1525

 

[davideduardo]

It doesn't really seem like it will survive. If they do, it will never look like it currently does now.

That article you linked has about as much in common with reality as the latest Transformers flic did.

Bankruptcy discharges a company from all or some of its debt, and holds other creditors at bay while the company is under the protection of the court. If there is a sound fundamental value, the company emerges with less debt and a restructured operating plan. Since both radio and outdoor drop huge amounts of cash, the company would likely emerge just as it is now, with little change. Secured lenders will see that payback from EBITDA is more likely than selling assets at today's prices, so they would want the enterprise to survive.