Are Part 15 stations exempt of royaltys

[Prais]

A, You are spot on.

 

[joshzz]

BMI, ACAP and SESAC have much bigger fish to fry than to chase micro-stations with a reach 200 - 400 feet.

With the economy the way it is, BMI ASCAP & SESAC have no time whatsoever to explore miniscule revenue streams. Their entire focus is on full power & LPFM radio. Their customer service reps are going to be banging on the doors of stations like B101 in Philadelphia, if payment is not received -- that' where the money lies - If a Part 15 operator wants to make a payment because he feels it's his patriotic duty - sure they'll accept it but on't expect a letter from them.

In 2006 BMI licensee fees totalled over 200 million dollars .

 

[joshzz]

I should add that this is one subject - no part 15 operator needs to even think about... AND there is no conspiracy against Part 15 AM operators taking place... we have too much paranoia in this country.

 

[joshzz]

Let me close by stating the following:

To ALL Part 15, AM Operators:
You are more likely to be abducted by the BORG, a fictional pseudo-race of cybernetic organisms depicted in the Star Trek Universe than you are to be contacted by BMI, ASCAP or SESAC.

There is nothing to worry about.

Captain Josh Piccard

 

[Prais]

That's why ASCRAP is going after beauty shops with radios in some cities. Thats's a fact. Josh, old boy, don't be too sure of yourself.

 

[Bongwater]

Playing ASCAP/BMI tunes on a 100mW transmitter without permission isn't like serial killing or running a meth lab in any way. And trying to enforce these royalties from Part 15ers is really like trying to tax air.

A crime is a crime regardless of the amount of money you steal. The punishment won't be the same as if you were a serial killer or running a meth lab. But it's still a crime. Air isn't taxed. But using someone else's property without their permission is illegal. You can try to justify it any way you can, if it makes you feel better. But if you get caught, none of those justifications will work.

I read a lot of comments on this board from Part 15 operators who take a lot of pride in what they do, and are offended when they don't get the same respect as other broadcasters. They feel what they do is as professional as any other operation, just on a smaller scale. If you have pride in your work, you will follow the law, whether it's FCC law or copyright law. Otherwise, you're no better than the kid with the speakers blasting out of his dorm room window.

You still haven't illustrated just what IS the fundamental difference between somebody playing ASCAP/BMI/SESAC music on an iPod transmitter and a Part 15 station.

Because technically, there isn't any. Anyone can hear the broadcasts from either source if they are inclined to tune in. Are you going to go after the MILLIONS who own iPod transmitters and demand THEY pay up?

To be perfectly honest, this is actually where you should START. Because anyone within a given range of such a device can tune in to what the neighbors are playing next door (and WITHOUT said "permission" I may add.) But people like you would NEVER attempt to do anything about THAT. Because you KNOW the particular can you would be opening with the general public if you did that-don't you? And there's FAR MORE of THEM than little Part 15 hobby stations......

So if anything, YOU should show the same respect to Part 15 stations and leave them alone. Because what they are doing is no more a threat to the livelihoods of pop stars than the iPod transmitter itself.

Yes, Part 15 stations take GREAT pride in what they do. But you know what? Even if they paid PROs for the privilege of playing music, will they also suddenly get a membership to the state association of broadcasters too? Or the unanimous respect of licensed local station owners?

Not bloody likely.....

And as far as "permission" goes, I can't think of ONE single recording artist out there who would not want to have their music played on the radio. Whatever the station may be. Can you name me ONE recording artist who would INSIST their music NOT be played by these little Part 15 stations because of no/next to no royalties, which even if you were successful in getting EVERYBODY to pay up, after PRO administrative costs, would STILL be essentially NOTHING anyway?

Commercial radio stations with thousands of watts, huge ratings and dozens of advertising accounts are one thing. Somebody with an iPod/computer automation and a 100mW transmitter in their bedroom with no advertising whatsoever and a signal that only gets out a couple blocks at best (which is about as noticeable as a gnat at a Metallica concert.) isn't even REMOTELY the same. I don't see people playing Lady Gaga MP3s on personal (yet SOOO public) iPod transmitters paying PRO fees and keeping logs of what they play and furnishing them.

I am also sure Tom Petty is not pacing the floor at night, worrying about that $1.98 check he's (allegedly) supposed to be getting from these all tiny microwatt stations (combined) that play his music.

But YOU certainly are my friend. And THAT is what we're REALLY talking about here, isn't it Big A?

Even if all of these royalty fees were all applied fairly and uniformly to everyone with a Part 15 transmitter (which they are not.) Would he or anyone else STILL see any significant financial advantage after the PROs have taken their share?

I doubt it.

Because the subject of right/wrong, moral/immoral, legal/illegal historically has a constantly shifting frame of reference in the music industry itself, depending on who stands to actually gain the most from it. (Hint: It often isn't the performers. Or even songwriters/composers, but the hierarchy of middlemen - including the major record labels.)

And before anyone debates MY ethics on this issue, I encourage anyone here to open any book on the American music industry: It's uglier than you think........

 

[Bongwater]

That's why ASCRAP is going after beauty shops with radios in some cities. Thats's a fact. Josh, old boy, don't be too sure of yourself.

How endearing..... :

 

[Bongwater]

Here's a brand new idea: Make people humming ASCAP/BMI tunes pay a fee too. Why let ANYONE get away with taking money from you! I'm sure you can post listening devices all over the cities and nail people for humming a copyrighted song in public. THAT ought to help the PROs regain control of their "property".......

 

[LibertyNT]

Or have them stand in at Birthday parties.... Don't Sing Happy Birthday!

 

[TheBigA]

You still haven't illustrated just what IS the fundamental difference between somebody playing ASCAP/BMI/SESAC music on an iPod transmitter and a Part 15 station.

I said this earlier in this thread: Intent. The intent of a Part 15 is for OTHER people to hear it. The intent for an iPod is personal use.

Look...do whatever you want, but if you get hauled into court, YOU are going to be the one who has to illustrate why you should be exempt. Because the law is on their side. I don't work for ASCAP or BMI, and I'm not taking their side. I'm just telling you what the law says.

And before anyone debates MY ethics on this issue, I encourage anyone here to open any book on the American music industry: It's uglier than you think........

That is not a defense for breaking the law. Killing a bad guy is no defense for murder.

 

[gr8oldies]

In the store setting, if its for personal use its fine, play it on a speaker system you owe fees.

 

[LowPayDJ]

Let me close by stating the following:

To ALL Part 15, AM Operators:
You are more likely to be abducted by the BORG, a fictional pseudo-race of cybernetic organisms depicted in the Star Trek Universe than you are to be contacted by BMI, ASCAP or SESAC.

There is nothing to worry about.

Captain Josh Piccard

LMFAO!!!

This is the funniest thing I've read all day. 1st time they try to collect from me, I'll present them a bill for the airtime they've used.

 

[TheBigA]

1st time they try to collect from me, I'll present them a bill for the airtime they've used.

If they didn't authorize your use of their music, they'll haul you into court. They aren't liable for something they didn't authorize. That's the first rule of advertising. You can't talk about Tylenol on the radio, and then send them a bill. They have to authorize it first.

 

[Prais]

You can send them anything.

They will send you a subpoena with the titles and composers of the songs they heard that you did not pay for.

 

[LowPayDJ]

They can send me anything they want. It doesn't mean they'll ever collect anything.

 

[TheBigA]

They can send me anything they want. It doesn't mean they'll ever collect anything.

That's their attitude about your bill to them for free airplay. The difference is it's their music you're playing, and the law is on their side. You MUST respond to a subpoena, and not with a bunch of lame excuses.

Let's face it. You have no legal position here. They can shut you down permanantly. And attach a lien on all of your possessions. It will kill your credit rating. And that's just for starters.

 

[Tom Wells]

Well then, Big A, you've made it crystal clear. It's intent. But I don't want to listen on a piddly little mp3 player with earbuds.
I intend to listen on my radios. I intend to have programming that suits me. I intend to avoid the sort of programming and
format suffocation that I feel has greatly diminished the value of radio for me. I intend to hear music I like, commercials I LIKE, sound effects I like, and use the amount of reverb I like.
Sounds like as long as I avoid doing anything with the intent of widening my "public appeal" by catering to what the radio industry
does to be accepted by the masses, it's NOT broadcasting. If the program is so narrowcasted as to only serve MY tastes, then it's OK, right? Would you tune in to listen to 45 minutes of steel mill audio at a time, or sounds of trains going by? OK then.
Just like the guy down the block, who seems to need to use the gasoline engine power washer for hours at a time all summer,
and I have no recourse but to hear him, he has no recourse but to have my audio in a tiny slice of his RF spectrum. At least he doesn't HAVE to listen to my "noise".
Sounds perfectly reasonable....just make sure your programming is self indulgent enough to not be viable as "broadcasting".
Is the problem that one or ten other people might also enjoy the same things I do and then listen, unbeknownst to me?

 

[TheBigA]

Is the problem that one or ten other people might also enjoy the same things I do and then listen, unbeknownst to me?

You don't have to convence me of anything. I'm not part of the equation. I'm just the weatherman here. The people you have to convince are at ASCAP & BMI. Good luck.

 

[joshzz]

Gentlemen,

This is not helping anyone but instead feeds the flames of paranoia and conspiracy.

The music licensing companies do not care about Part 15 Radio. There is absolutely NO interest in ever collecting fees from people operating such licenses. NONE!

Please let's end this.

 

[LowPayDJ]

They can send me anything they want. It doesn't mean they'll ever collect anything.

That's their attitude about your bill to them for free airplay. The difference is it's their music you're playing, and the law is on their side. You MUST respond to a subpoena, and not with a bunch of lame excuses.

Let's face it. You have no legal position here. They can shut you down permanantly. And attach a lien on all of your possessions. It will kill your credit rating. And that's just for starters.

LMFAO

Shut me down permanently?!!! The only way to do that would be to put a bullet in my head. All they can do is get a judgement that they will never collect. Gee, what are they going to do,..take away my Birthday, take my computer. BFD I'll have another Birthday within a year, and setting up another computer only takes a few hours. And as for that Credit Rating, the million dollar judgement against me did that a few years back. That's why I'm self employed. You can't collect what you can't find. As far as I know, there is no debtors prisons anymore.