AT&T Drops unlimited data plans. What were you saying about internet radio?

[SirRoxalot]

Traditional radio is doing a fine job of creating an audience for syndicated content. If phone-based listening becomes dominant - which seems quite possible since it's the all-purpose appliance that everyone carries - then FM signals will become a lot less significant. Syndicators won't need local stations to distribute their content. Anybody want to bet that the syndicators will drop local avails and go direct to the audience?

If you know anything about cellular theory, you should know that the greater the concentration of population, the lower the power, and the smaller the cell. That way frequencies can be reused at much shorter distances, and more customers can be serviced. Everybody who's talked about WiMax in the telecommunications industry has talked about it as a "last mile" solution for populations who are too scattered to make optical cable, or even fat copper installation cost-effective. It's a much higher-power technology than Wi-fi or even typical cellular protocols. One advantage is that it's not in the

Wimax has been discussed as a replacement for current cellular protocols, but there would need to be some significant changes in the amount of bandwidth allocated to the technology for that to happen on a large scale. It offers advantages in speed at shorter distances, or greater range at lower speeds. It may roll out down the road, but it would mean wholesale replacement of current phone technology on the customer end.

 

[TheBigA]

Traditional radio is doing a fine job of creating an audience for syndicated content.

That's absolute BS. Other than NPR, lots of stations in Buffalo are 100% local. Even the ones that are owned by bankrupt companies. In another thread, we've been talking about how NPR is bypassing its local stations. But who's fault is that? The local NPR stations have become little more than 24/7 national programming from Washington.

The issue isn't about how you distribute your content, but how you pay for it. National advertising is only part of the marketplace. Local advertising is still a key source of income. So local radio distribution is still viable as long as local businesses have budgets to advertise, and aren't completely replaced by national chains.

Most of the technical publications I've been reading have said WiMax is dead. It is very expensive, and the big telecom companies are more invested in 3G and 4G. Ultimately, it's about big telecom and how much profit they can make.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Really? I don't know of a single station in the top 20 that's 100% local. Maybe a daytimer that sneaks in. Certainly there are none that even close to 100% live and local.

WiMax isn't dead, but it's also not likely to replace existing cellular technology in the short term. WiMax can either be short-distance and quite fast, or long-distance. It's more likely to roll out as a bridge to distant customers who are too far off the grid to get broadband services any other way. Some folks are just too far away from a POP to even get DSL. Cable companies are under no obligation to provide service, and telecoms don't want to spend any more than necessary just because State Public Utilities Commissions have a hammer that they can use to force telecoms to expand services to rural customers.

That's not to say that some enterprising companies may not roll out WiMax in an urban area to offer a wider range of services in a part of the spectrum that isn't overcrowded (yet). It does require new equipment on both ends, which tends to get expensive if you're servicing a LOT of customers.

 

[TheBigA]

Really? I don't know of a single station in the top 20 that's 100% local.

Let's start with WYRK. What syndication do they carry? A weekend countdown, but what else?

 

[davideduardo]

Wimax has been discussed as a replacement for current cellular protocols, but there would need to be some significant changes in the amount of bandwidth allocated to the technology for that to happen on a large scale. It offers advantages in speed at shorter distances, or greater range at lower speeds. It may roll out down the road, but it would mean wholesale replacement of current phone technology on the customer end.

WiMax is an alternative to wired DSL, not to cellular. It's an internet service provider and not a wireless phone service. Take a look at the Clearwire site to see what areas and populations are already served. It is deploying with a good pace.

 

[pbf1]

Really? I don't know of a single station in the top 20 that's 100% local.

KQRS, for starters, is.

 

[davideduardo]

Really? I don't know of a single station in the top 20 that's 100% local. Maybe a daytimer that sneaks in. Certainly there are none that even close to 100% live and local.

I know of quite a few Top 100 market stations that are essentially 100% live and local... KLVE in LA and WXNY in NY and WAMR in Miami are a couple I know for certain (excluding maybe a countdown show on weekends, a feature of stations for 4 decades). Look at, in fact, most of the stations in NY, LA, etc. There are some with some syndication, some with very local origination.

That's not to say that some enterprising companies may not roll out WiMax in an urban area to offer a wider range of services in a part of the spectrum that isn't overcrowded (yet). It does require new equipment on both ends, which tends to get expensive if you're servicing a LOT of customers.

 

[davideduardo]

Really? I don't know of a single station in the top 20 that's 100% local.

Let's start with WYRK. What syndication do they carry? A weekend countdown, but what else?

And countdowns have been a syndicated staple of almost every kind of current-driven format for the last 30 to 40 years.

 

[AC Tones]

Well, AT&T is the first to drop its unlimited data plan and go to a tiered system. Guess watch out how much internet radio you stream. What were some of you saying about internet radio cleaning traditional radio's clock; and that "everyone" will be listening to micro-niche programming from one of a million kids in their basement?

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0216207120100602?type=marketsNews

And how exactly is this a blow to Internet radio? BFD. As one poster already noted, streaming audio content does not chew up nearly the amount of bandwidth terrestrial radio apologists lead you to believe. The overwhelming majority of my listeners stream me either from work or at home, and will be unaffected by this. And those who do stream me via mobile devices do so while commuting in their cars (limited amounts of time), and do not come close to exceeding the limits of their mobile data plans. Moreover, Internet broadcasters who are also faced with rising streaming costs are simply opting to stream at lower bit rates by uploading content with superior encoders, which means listeners will be using even less bandwidth while tuning in. So at the end of the day, this is yet another attempt by those who cling to the past to spin this news as if it spells doom to Internet radio. But listeners who continue to flock to the Internet for alternative, creative programming with expansive playlists will not be duped by those who continue to create fictional obstacles to the continued and inevitable growth of Internet radio.

 

[davideduardo]

In reading through this thread and through various articles on this subject, I've come to the conclusion that the biggest winner here is: Verizon Wireless.

For the time being. The other companies are investigating tiered charges.

This is like the airlines... one makes a fare base move, the rest follow.

 

[Tom Wells]

In reading through this thread and through various articles on this subject, I've come to the conclusion that the biggest winner here is: Verizon Wireless.

For the time being. The other companies are investigating tiered charges.

This is like the airlines... one makes a fare base move, the rest follow.

And like cable TV. "Hey, there won't be any commercials!" How long did that last.?
Get 'em hooked, then turn the heat up slowly.
Eventually, they'll be happy to pay for a service that was once supported by the advertising.
When enough people accept that, you can begin raising rates, and move away from the old model entirely.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Boys, try to keep up. TheBigA said "lots of stations in Buffalo are 100% local". He was talking about BUFFALO, and I replied that nobody in the top 20 stations in BUFFALO are 100% local. WYRK isn't, and it's VT during a significant portion of the broadcast week. I'm not a country listener, but I know a lot about what goes on in the market, and I can read a website.

WiMax is an alternative to DSL or other wired or fiber technologies, and Mobile WiMax has also been discussed as a replacement for GSM and CDMA technologies as cellular needs both greater bandwidth and greater speed. Buffalo was one of the first Clearwire markets before they pulled out because both Verizon and Adelphia (at the time) expanded their Internet access options and lowered they prices. They were a good deal when the only other option a business had was to pay for a T-1. They weren't so good when cable forced Verizon to expand DSL, and Fios blows both of them away.

What everybody's watching in the broadband world is the shift by people who unplug from any wired high-speed and shift their connection to cellular full-time. Yes, it's currently slower, but it's hard to beat the portability. If you're in a situation where you have Wi-fi at work, can live with 3G or 4G speed for the rest of the day, and don't care about "triple play" options from the cable company or the phone company, you can actually save money by going all cellular and dropping your cable and phone service. Or, you could when there was no limit on data. AT&T is just the cellular pioneer in trying to limit data. Time-Warner Cable tried that approach in Rochester a couple of years ago, and dropped it because of the complaints and lost business.

 

[TheBigA]

Boys, try to keep up. TheBigA said "lots of stations in Buffalo are 100% local". He was talking about BUFFALO, and I replied that nobody in the top 20 stations in BUFFALO are 100% local. WYRK isn't, and it's VT during a significant portion of the broadcast week.

I asked what syndication do they run, and you haven't answered. That's because their entire day is local, including overnight. Yes it's VT, but the issue here is carrying syndication. Try to understand that there is a difference between local VT and carrying national syndication in the context of alternative content platforms. That's what we're talking about here.

I'd venture to say most content on internet radio isn't local OR live, but that's another discussion.

 

[davideduardo]

Boys, try to keep up. TheBigA said "lots of stations in Buffalo are 100% local". He was talking about BUFFALO, and I replied that nobody in the top 20 stations in BUFFALO are 100% local.

You left out the "in Buffalo" part...

WiMax is an alternative to DSL or other wired or fiber technologies, and Mobile WiMax has also been discussed as a replacement for GSM and CDMA technologies as cellular needs both greater bandwidth and greater speed.

The cellphone option, I believe, died when Motorola left the Sprint/CLearwater alliance. That was a digital eon ago.

Buffalo was one of the first Clearwire markets before they pulled out because both Verizon and Adelphia (at the time) expanded their Internet access options and lowered they prices.

Actually, it was a Sprint / Clearwire market, using Sprint infrastructure. When the Sprint/Clearwire venture fell apart, Buffalo was dropped.

They were a good deal when the only other option a business had was to pay for a T-1.

Business could and did have DSL... Clearwire came after DSL.

What everybody's watching in the broadband world is the shift by people who unplug from any wired high-speed and shift their connection to cellular full-time. Yes, it's currently slower, but it's hard to beat the portability.

WiMax has portability as the model... DSL speed or very close to it, and portability. When it comes to LA, my laptop will already be enabled and I can kill three separate DSL accounts and two mobile wireless accounts... nearly $300 a month in charges replaced by $40 a month for all locations.

 

[KeithE4]

WiMax will be gone before AM radio is, at least as far as most of the public is concerned. It's already been rejected by most of the cellphone carriers. LTE (Long-Term Evolution) is what's being adopted instead.

Both are similar 4G technologies (OFDM), but LTE provides faster speeds - at least in theory; we'll see once Verizon, among others, gets its network going later this summer. Since the underlying technology is so similar, one can be easily replaced with the other.

WiMax may survive as a "super-WiFi" service provided by cable companies in rural areas, but as a mainstream service for smartphones and their inevitable successors, it's on its way out.

Link: Gigacom

 

[SirRoxalot]

Boys, try to keep up. TheBigA said "lots of stations in Buffalo are 100% local". He was talking about BUFFALO, and I replied that nobody in the top 20 stations in BUFFALO are 100% local.

You left out the "in Buffalo" part...

I didn't think that it was necessary if you were following the thread. Sorry.

Buffalo was one of the first Clearwire markets before they pulled out because both Verizon and Adelphia (at the time) expanded their Internet access options and lowered they prices.

Actually, it was a Sprint / Clearwire market, using Sprint infrastructure. When the Sprint/Clearwire venture fell apart, Buffalo was dropped.

Uh, no. They installed their own transceivers, and were completely wireless. They had a very limited number of POPS, and you had to have line of sight or they couldn't sell you service.

They were a good deal when the only other option a business had was to pay for a T-1.

Business could and did have DSL... Clearwire came after DSL.

Clearwire was only considered where DSL or cable wasn't available. There are still significant areas in WNY where DSL isn't available. When Clearwire began here (it was their second market), Adelphia didn't offer broadband to businesses. Once they did, the number of Clearwire customers dropped dramatically, and they saw any hope of expanding service go down the drain. That's why they left Buffalo. Verizon has been expanding DSL, and has added Fios to the mix. The number of T-1 customers has dropped significantly according to CWA friends.

 

[Tom Wells]

We looked at Clearwire before DSL was offered in our neighborhood by AT&T.

They went up on the roof and tried to ping the server.
Unfortunately, one group of trees in the park, about 500 feet away prevented a "clear shot" at the top of the John Hancock building in downtown Chicago.

It would have been faster than the current DSL, but probably would have suffered "some" dropouts,
just as we now experience with digital television.

 

[davideduardo]

Clearwire was only considered where DSL or cable wasn't available. There are still significant areas in WNY where DSL isn't available. When Clearwire began here (it was their second market), Adelphia didn't offer broadband to businesses. Once they did, the number of Clearwire customers dropped dramatically, and they saw any hope of expanding service go down the drain. That's why they left Buffalo. Verizon has been expanding DSL, and has added Fios to the mix. The number of T-1 customers has dropped significantly according to CWA friends.

WiMax is a perfect replacement for people who want to be mobile. It will work in the fully wired markets, like Portland, whether you are at home or using a laptop anywhere the service is available.... including the new Sprint variant which I have used and is "DSL like" in nature and performance.

 

[TheBigA]

I see Clearwire as an example of the old addage: Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. The minute Comcast and Sprint see this taking money away from their primary businesses, they will swoop in and make changes.

 

[davideduardo]

I see Clearwire as an example of the old addage: Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. The minute Comcast and Sprint see this taking money away from their primary businesses, they will swoop in and make changes.

The original deployment plan for WiMax was a Sprint/Clearwire joint venture.