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Beating a (nearly) dead horse: TBOD dumped by KTVE Monroe, LA/El Dorado, AR for Informercial

G

genXdxerLR

Guest
Beating a (nearly) dead horse: TBOD dumped by KTVE Monroe, LA/El Dorado, AR for Informercial

Not waiting for this show to die a natural death, Nexstar controled KTVE pre-empted TBOD for a Time Life informerical.

Now a question to the board, what is your NBC station that is prempting TBOD showing in its place? According to the the Dish Network guide, the NBC station locally (KARK) is showing something called "Arkansas Voices", a news/interview type show but only caught a minute or two last week.

Just curious.
 
Re: Beating a (nearly) dead horse: TBOD dumped by KTVE Monroe, LA/El Dorado, AR for Informercial

> Not waiting for this show to die a natural death, Nexstar
> controled KTVE pre-empted TBOD for a Time Life informerical.

Infomercial?!?!?

In Prime-Time?!?!??

What were they thinking??

Wasn't there anything else that the station could have used to fill that hour??
 
Re: Beating a (nearly) dead horse: TBOD dumped by KTVE Monroe, LA/El Dorado, AR for Informercial

I'm sure Time-Life made it worthwhile for KTVE. "The Book of Daniel" and the several NBC affiliates not carrying it has brought up the discussion of stations pre-empting network programming over community standards, etc. Affiliates have always made the right-to-pre-empt a big issue, usually citing stuff like community standards and the like. However, most pre-emptions occur because the station has an opportunity to make more money running a cheapo syndicated show, informercial, or paid religious show (i.e. a Billy Graham special). For the most part, most pre-emptions have nothing to do with community standards, but because the station wants to make more $$$.
 
Re: Beating a (nearly) dead horse: TBOD dumped by KTVE Monroe, LA/El Dorado, AR for Informercial

> However, most pre-emptions occur because the station
> has an opportunity to make more money running a cheapo
> syndicated show, informercial, or paid religious show (i.e.
> a Billy Graham special). For the most part, most
> pre-emptions have nothing to do with community standards,
> but because the station wants to make more $$$.

I have noticed that Mr. Gallant firmly believes that prime-time should always consist of entertainment or news programming, and he always objects to stations running infomercials in time slots that he thinks would be better filled by off-network reruns or other syndicated fare.

It has been explained numerous times that television is a business, and Steve (no relation) sums it up nicely. There is more money to be made with an infomercial than a rerun of "Married With Children", in most cases.

Case in point: Los Angeles' two English-language non-network affiliates are KCAL/9 and KDOC/56. KCAL runs a three-hour prime-time news block and KDOC runs reruns of Columbo, Twilight Zone, Banacek, and Ellery Queen. Guess which one has better ratings and more agency commercials? (Hint ... it isn't KDOC.)

I have come to the conclusion, though, that Joseph already knows the answer, but if he ignores it he can post the same "couldn't KXXX do better than this" over and over. He more proud of having more posts than anyone than he is fearful of appearing ignorant. Sorry, Joseph, but that is the impression you give and I'm not the only moderator on these boards who thinks so.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Re: Beating a (nearly) dead horse: TBOD dumped by KTVE Monroe, LA/El Dorado, AR for Informercial

> Not waiting for this show to die a natural death, Nexstar
> controled KTVE pre-empted TBOD for a Time Life informerical.

It should be noted that while many of the stations that dropped TBOD were owned by Nexstar, KTVE is not one of those stations. KTVE is owned by Piedmont Television Holdings. However, KTVE DOES control Nexstar-owned KARD/Fox 14 in the same market. It's probably the only case where a Nexstar station is actually controlled by another company (as opposed to a Nexstar station controlling a Mission or Sinclair owned station).
 
Re: Beating a (nearly) dead horse: TBOD dumped by KTVE Monroe, LA/El Dorado, AR for Informercial

But Billy Graham is one thing, infomercials are quite another.

As I write this, CBS is televising an exciting Duke-Georgetown basketball game - and the Hoyas are leading. KIRO-TV (Cox) pre-empted this exciting nationally-televised tilt for two bloody hours of infomercial crap (the game ran long, so they did carry the last three game minutes - about 17 minutes in real time). Inexcusable. Two weeks ago, KIRO pulled the same stunt by pushing a CBS primetime movie to late night just so Time-Life could sell record albums.

I will cut KIRO some slack as they and other west coast affils are forced by FCC rule to bypass some CBS sports programming to meet their "E/I" quota, and they do carry some local events such as Seafair over the network schedule.

Serving the public interest, as genXdxerLR noted in the initial post, is proper since that meets the FCC mandate we all know about. However, substituting undesired paid-time programming for stuff such as the umpteenth appearance of that idiot Chef Tony or that scamster Kevin Trudeau or the latest piece of exercise gear that will end up rusting in your backyard six months hence is not my definition of public service.

One other thing: more often than not these pre-emptions come after the network has vigorously promoted said event/program while the local affiliate makes no effort to inform viewers the program won't air as advertised.

Gallant's right. I don't care how much money one might cross a station's palm with, Infomercials have NO PLACE IN PRIMETIME! And little place elsewhere before 2 AM or after 5 AM, for that matter.
 
Re: Beating a (nearly) dead horse: TBOD dumped by KTVE Monroe, LA/El Dorado, AR for Informercial

> It should be noted that while many of the stations that
> dropped TBOD were owned by Nexstar, KTVE is not one of those
> stations. KTVE is owned by Piedmont Television Holdings.
> However, KTVE DOES control Nexstar-owned KARD/Fox 14 in the
> same market. It's probably the only case where a Nexstar
> station is actually controlled by another company (as
> opposed to a Nexstar station controlling a Mission or
> Sinclair owned station).
>
Guess what? "Piedmont Television Holdings" is a dummy corperation formed by Nextstar to own stations in markets where they are not allowed to own a second station. Everyone understands this except the FCC.
 
Re: Beating a (nearly) dead horse: TBOD dumped by KTVE Monroe, LA/El Dorado, AR for Informercial

My point was that if Billy Graham wasn't paying the stations to air his specials, he wouldn't be on, at least in prime-time on network stations. I will agree that it's better to air Billy Graham in prime-time than a traditional infomercial.

Over my lifetime, I have seen affiliates make some very questionable decisions as far as pre-emptions go. Occasionally, an affiliate will make an agreement to air a certain syndicated or paid show before knowing what network program will be pre-empted, and that can lead to a rather embarrassing situation. Case in point, over 20 years ago, my local CBS affiliate at the time pre-empted the network's annual showing of "The Wizard of Oz" two years in a row in order to air a high-school basketball tournament (the second year, the station aird the movie at an alternate time). The same station also pre-empted the initial airing of the "Dallas" episode where J.R. was shot, and they also pre-emtped "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" two years in a row. One thing that I've always found annoying is when the network will show a two-part episode of a program and the affiliate pre-empts one of the parts.

At least now stations often delay pre-empted programs to the overnight hours so they can at least be taped by viewers and watched later. Years ago, most pre-empted shows usually just went unseen, unless the station had some dead time to fill over the weekend (before infomercials took over).
 
Re: Who Greenlighted Book of Daniel Anyway?

> Not waiting for this show to die a natural death, Nexstar
> controled KTVE pre-empted TBOD for a Time Life informerical.

I actually watched the show for the first time the other night and was left wondering who in the world greenlighted this thing in the first place? The show is frankly bizarre and I have to wonder what network exec thought this would be the best new show to say "yes, yes!" to.

I can imagine the conversation at the sales pitch:

"It's a comedy and drama and it has Christianity in it and it has a gay person too... it has everything. It's like Will & Grace get born again... the red states will love it, especially the Jesus part!"

The only thing missing was a reality challenge or talent competition.

I wonder if this is going to be a mid-season replacement that will be gone by spring.
 
Re: Beating a (nearly) dead horse: TBOD dumped by KTVE Monroe, LA/El Dorado, AR for Informercial

> Now a question to the board, what is your NBC station that
> is prempting TBOD showing in its place? According to the
> the Dish Network guide, the NBC station locally (KARK) is
> showing something called "Arkansas Voices", a news/interview
> type show but only caught a minute or two last week.

This show isn't even able to be sold by NBC... The ENTIRE NATIONAL commercial inventory last night were NBC NETWORK PROMOS. Hell, even our local inventory on it (yes, we're still showing it) was all station promos. Therefore, I can't see how this is even doing any good for NBC if they can't sell the thing.

-A<P ID="signature">______________

</P>
 
Re: Beating a (nearly) dead horse: TBOD dumped by KTVE Monroe, LA/El Dorado, AR for Informercial

> At least now stations often delay pre-empted programs to the
> overnight hours so they can at least be taped by viewers and
> watched later. Years ago, most pre-empted shows usually
> just went unseen, unless the station had some dead time to
> fill over the weekend (before infomercials took over).

They do this to San Antonio Spurs basketball games on KENS-5 CBS and KRRT-35 WB in that they delay all of the shows to late night hours or show the shows on weekends like KRRT does sometimes.

I like seeing those Time-Life music specials especially the ones with Kenny Rogers(Superstars Of Country) and Barry Williams of The Brady Bunch(Superstars Of The 70's Collection) where you actually see classic clips of the artists in action. It's heck of a lot better than all of the phony stuff like "buy a house for $500 and make a million" or "this book will guarantee to heal you from all illnesses" or "that handy-dandy giant step ladder",etc.
 
Re: Beating a (nearly) dead horse: TBOD dumped by KTVE Monroe, LA/El Dorado, AR for Informercial

Just like any other business, if you can't sell your product, you are done.

Sounds like it would take Divine Intervention to save The Book of Daniel.




> Now a question to the board, what is your NBC station that
>
> > is prempting TBOD showing in its place? According to the
> > the Dish Network guide, the NBC station locally (KARK) is
> > showing something called "Arkansas Voices", a
> news/interview
> > type show but only caught a minute or two last week.
>
> This show isn't even able to be sold by NBC... The ENTIRE
> NATIONAL commercial inventory last night were NBC NETWORK
> PROMOS. Hell, even our local inventory on it (yes, we're
> still showing it) was all station promos. Therefore, I
> can't see how this is even doing any good for NBC if they
> can't sell the thing.
>
> -A
>
 
Re: Who Greenlighted Book of Daniel Anyway?

Whoever it was, I bet he'll be flipping burgers and bagging fries when this season is over...

> > Not waiting for this show to die a natural death, Nexstar
> > controled KTVE pre-empted TBOD for a Time Life
> informerical.
>
> I actually watched the show for the first time the other
> night and was left wondering who in the world greenlighted
> this thing in the first place? The show is frankly bizarre
> and I have to wonder what network exec thought this would be
> the best new show to say "yes, yes!" to.
>
> I can imagine the conversation at the sales pitch:
>
> "It's a comedy and drama and it has Christianity in it and
> it has a gay person too... it has everything. It's like
> Will & Grace get born again... the red states will love it,
> especially the Jesus part!"
>
> The only thing missing was a reality challenge or talent
> competition.
>
> I wonder if this is going to be a mid-season replacement
> that will be gone by spring.
>
 
Re: Beating a (nearly) dead horse: TBOD dumped by KTVE Monroe, LA/El Dorado, AR for Informercial

K.M. Richards noted that:

> Case in point: Los Angeles' two English-language
> non-network affiliates are KCAL/9 and KDOC/56. KCAL runs a
> three-hour prime-time news block and KDOC runs reruns of
> Columbo, Twilight Zone, Banacek, and Ellery Queen. Guess
> which one has better ratings and more agency commercials?
> (Hint ... it isn't KDOC.)

But KCAL's news block does serve a purpose. The early portion is probably watched by some people who aren't home in-time for the early-evening news on the "big three" network stations. And I would think KDOC's classic TV shows also have a loyal, if small, audience. By buying "classic" and "older" reruns, KDOC probably spends a fraction of what it would spend for more recent off-network reruns. And many classic shows still have devoted fans.

By being able to amortize costs across a three-hour block (among other local news time periods), KCAL's local prime-time news block is probably quite profitable. And while KDOC is making less money with it's prime-time classic TV reruns, the cost of acquiring them is relatively low, and as a result, KDOC probably is making it's own, if smaller, profit from these classic shows.

Going back to my comments earlier in this thread, it's one thing if a network affiliate pre-empts network programming for live coverage of a local news event or a local sports event (although pre-empting network shows are pre-empted for local sports telecasts is much less common on over-the-air TV now than in the past; today, more and more local/regional collegiate and professional sports events are likely to be on regional cable networks than on over-the-air TV stations).

I would actually consider the pre-empting of programming to show Billy Graham, even when he pays a station, to serve the religious community as he's one of the most sincere men of faith in this country. His ethics are certainly higher than those of most other "TV preachers". In fact, apart from local churches buying airtime for local religious programming seen only in the home market of the church in question, I feel Graham is the only religious individual who should be buying time from TV stations.

What I am most worried about is that by running an infomercial in prime-time, a TV station may make a quick buck, but be left with no audience in a particular time period. And with "The Book Of Daniel" airing at 10 P.M. ET/PT (9 CT/MT), a station that pre-empts it for an infomercial may not see many of those viewers who were watching it at 9:59 (8:59 Central/Mountain) come back to the station an hour later for the late local news (unless the station was in a small market and had no late local newscast).

Whether one likes it or not, infomercials and political commercials are the only two areas of television advertising which are seeing an increase in spending. Spending in all other categories is way down. Still, if a TV station has to air infomercials, it should at least try to schedule them during hours where the potential damage to the station's viewership is minimal.

Of course, there are other instances where a station may be paid to run a program that's not an infomercial or a religious program. I suspect there are some local/regional sports teams and packagers of local and regional sports telecasts who would produce the games themselves and pay stations to carry them. I believe, as an example, that the joint venture of Raycom and Jefferson Pilot that produces broadcasts of Atlantic Coast Conference collegiate sports (mostly football and men's basketball) pays TV stations (and increasingly, regional cable sports networks) for the airtime to broadcast the games. In those instances, the station not only gets paid for the airtime, but also gets a program that many viewers will want to watch and which will provide the station with real ratings numbers and a solid "lead-in" to whatever program follows the game.
 
Re: Beating a (nearly) dead horse: TBOD dumped by KTVE Monroe, LA/El Dorado, AR for Informercial

> Going back to my comments earlier in this thread, it's one
> thing if a network affiliate pre-empts network programming
> for live coverage of a local news event or a local sports
> event (although pre-empting network shows are pre-empted for
> local sports telecasts is much less common on over-the-air
> TV now than in the past; today, more and more local/regional
> collegiate and professional sports events are likely to be
> on regional cable networks than on over-the-air TV
> stations).

I have a Pittsburgh edition TV Guide from 1976...on something like 4 of the 7 nights listed, KDKA pre-empted the entire CBS prime-time lineup for a Pirates game. Something you'd never see today in any market.
 
Re: Beating a (nearly) dead horse: TBOD dumped by KTVE Monroe, LA/El Dorado, AR for Informercial

> Guess what? "Piedmont Television Holdings" is a dummy
> corperation formed by Nextstar to own stations in markets
> where they are not allowed to own a second station.
> Everyone understands this except the FCC.
>
Getting further off topic, but...

Piedmont Television Holdings is the former Grapevine Television group of television stations (also known as GoCom at one point). The Piedmont stations include:

KSPR/Springfield, MO (which competes against Nexstar station KSFX and Mission Broadcasting station KOLR)
WJCL/Savannah, GA
WGXA/Macon, GA
WAAY/Huntsville, AL
KTBY/Anchorage, AK (they may have sold this one off)
WKBN/WYFX-LP/Youngstown, OH

Piedmont controls, JSAs, SSAs, whatever you want to call it, two other stations:
KARD/Monroe, LA (owned by Nexstar)
WTGS/Savannah, GA (owned by Bluenose Broadcasting of Savannah)

The only other connection between Piedmont and Nexstar was the former group selling KMID-TV/Odessa, TX to the latter a few years ago.

Now, all MISSION BROADCASTING stations are indeed controlled by Nexstar. A list of both groups can be found at Nexstar's website. http://www.nexstar.tv Piedmont apparently has no main website.

BACK to the Book of Daniel. It should be noted that Nexstar was not alone, mearly the one that started it all. But not every Nexstar NBC station dropped the show (unless recently pulled, it's still on Nexstar NBC stations in Joplin, Wichita Falls, Wilkes-Barre, Shreveport, and Hagerstown, MD). Amongst other ownership groups:

WSMV/Nashville, TN (Meredith Corp)
WGBC/Meridian, MS (Global Communications, but controlled by Gray-owned WTOK)
WTVA/Tupelo, MS (WTVA, Inc., also the city where the AFA is based)

By the way, I hold no insider information in any of this. I make no claim to being a know-it-all. The above information was Googled.
 
Re: Who Greenlighted Book of Daniel Anyway?

> Whoever it was, I bet he'll be flipping burgers and bagging
> fries when this season is over...

...said burgers being slapped together by the guy who greenlighted "God, The Devil & Bob" for NBC five years ago?...<P ID="signature">______________
King Daevid MacKenzie
WLSU Wisconsin Public Radio, La Crosse
heard weekly on http://www.radio4all.net/
"Kill Ugly Radio." FRANK ZAPPA</P>
 
Re: Who Greenlighted Book of Daniel Anyway?

> > Whoever it was, I bet he'll be flipping burgers and
> bagging
> > fries when this season is over...
>
> ...said burgers being slapped together by the guy who
> greenlighted "God, The Devil & Bob" for NBC five years
> ago?...
>
I actually liked that show, but I had totally forgetten about it!
LOL :)
 
Re: Who Greenlighted Book of Daniel Anyway?

> > > Whoever it was, I bet he'll be flipping burgers and
> > bagging
> > > fries when this season is over...
> >
> > ...said burgers being slapped together by the guy who
> > greenlighted "God, The Devil & Bob" for NBC five years
> > ago?...
> >
> I actually liked that show, but I had totally forgetten
> about it!
> LOL :)

...I liked it too. But NBC ticked off two church-owned affiliates (Mormon-owned KSL-TV/5 Salt Lake City and Catholic-owned WNDU-TV/16 at Notre Dame University, South Bend) and a lot of other affiliates buried it until after the late Sunday news, guaranteeing it wouldn't last past the three or four weeks it was on (where's the DVD?)...<P ID="signature">______________
King Daevid MacKenzie
WLSU Wisconsin Public Radio, La Crosse
heard weekly on http://www.radio4all.net/
"Kill Ugly Radio." FRANK ZAPPA</P>
 
Re: Who Greenlighted Book of Daniel Anyway?

> > Not waiting for this show to die a natural death, Nexstar
> > controled KTVE pre-empted TBOD for a Time Life
> informerical.
>
> I actually watched the show for the first time the other
> night and was left wondering who in the world greenlighted
> this thing in the first place? The show is frankly bizarre
> and I have to wonder what network exec thought this would be
> the best new show to say "yes, yes!" to.
>
> I can imagine the conversation at the sales pitch:
>
> "It's a comedy and drama and it has Christianity in it and
> it has a gay person too... it has everything. It's like
> Will & Grace get born again... the red states will love it,
> especially the Jesus part!"
>
> The only thing missing was a reality challenge or talent
> competition.
>
> I wonder if this is going to be a mid-season replacement
> that will be gone by spring.
>
That's pretty much exactly what it is. NYPD Blue faced similar controversy with stations dropping it all over the place and/or refusing to pick it up at all (IIRC, it was preempted in more markets and in larger markets than TBOD has been), but it succeeded despite all that because it was an excellent show.

TBOD, well, isn't anywhere near that good. All the wackiness designed to stir up controversy adds nothing to the show and what's left is little more than a more mature version of 7th Heaven. Even if they can get past the pre-emptions and salvage the show, it'd never be the sort of major hit it would need to be to justify all this hassle and lost ad time.
 
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