-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
BEST BUY FORUM: IS THE INSIGNIA PORTABLE PLAYER LEGIT?
- Thread starter Savage
- Start date
An armband portable HD Radio, made by KRI and containing a Samsung HD Radio IC, is being sold under Best Buy's Insignia brand name.
Link:
http://www.rwonline.com/article/83774
jhardis said:JohnnyElectron said:Visited my Best Buy last night - they DID ... NOT have the portable, nor a clue about even what department would stock it.
It's displayed with the MP3 players.
Yep, no clue here (Holmdel, NJ) either, but a search of the store revealed that there were two hanging off a pegboard near the portable FM radios. (Probably appropriate, but not even close to "high profile".)
I'm convinced that until HD radios are flying off the shelves and racks, the average Joe and Sally are raving about these devices and there is some truly unique program content that isn't duplicated elsewhere, I'll just save my money and sit back and enjoy the debate. Someday perhaps the technology might be perfected to the point where a user doesn't have to hold the antenna in the horizontal position or can only get reception less than 10 miles from the transmitter by a window facing the transmitter site!
R
rbrucecarter5
Guest
hubcity said:Yep, no clue here (Holmdel, NJ) either, but a search of the store revealed that there were two hanging off a pegboard near the portable FM radios. (Probably appropriate, but not even close to "high profile".)
Actually - it is very appropriate. For HD radio to succeed in the reality of consumer apathy, it has to be as commonplace and pervasive - and cheap - as other radios. Just one more reasonably priced choice. Right now, if it was hanging next to an SRF-59 (legendary for analog reception and performance, and one third the price), I'd buy the SRF-59. I've been known to snag one when I forget to bring a radio on a trip. I can always sell it for as much or more than I paid on eBay - it has a reputation for good performance.
Now - if the HD radio was priced the same, had good analog reception, had an AM band - I'd probably be persuaded to give it a try next time I need a radio. But I wouldn't pay even $10 more for HD, given the miserable selection of formats available on HD-2.
Do the stores nowadays even have any of these radios on display to try out hands on? I doubt it. So we are left with either trusting a review that we have read online or in a magazine, possibly someone we know has bought one, or buying it and having to return it if it doesn't work to our satisfaction.
My impression is that the salespeople are generally unable or unwilling to open the package and let us try one without us buying it. I long for the days when we had a store like Polk Bros. in the Chicago area, and the salespeople would go out of their way to let you try the radio in order to make the sale, even allowing you to take the radio to the window to get better reception - accompanied by the salesperson, of course.
My impression is that the salespeople are generally unable or unwilling to open the package and let us try one without us buying it. I long for the days when we had a store like Polk Bros. in the Chicago area, and the salespeople would go out of their way to let you try the radio in order to make the sale, even allowing you to take the radio to the window to get better reception - accompanied by the salesperson, of course.
I picked up one this afternoon here in Austin. It was such a big deal in the local BB that five different people in the store had no idea what it was, or for that matter, what HD Radio was.
The included earbuds are useless. The cord is FAR too short and they constantly fall out of your ears. The reception is not bad, it locks on as well as my generation 1 Boston Acoustics Receptor. The little thing has enough huevos to drive a pair of Sony headphones (MDR V6) decently. There's little audible distortion, even at full volume level. It did manage to lock onto all the local HD stations and the display is actually quite nice, being full color and relatively visible (for a cheap color display) outside.
The included earbuds are useless. The cord is FAR too short and they constantly fall out of your ears. The reception is not bad, it locks on as well as my generation 1 Boston Acoustics Receptor. The little thing has enough huevos to drive a pair of Sony headphones (MDR V6) decently. There's little audible distortion, even at full volume level. It did manage to lock onto all the local HD stations and the display is actually quite nice, being full color and relatively visible (for a cheap color display) outside.
stormy01 said:Do the stores nowadays even have any of these radios on display to try out hands on? I doubt it. So we are left with either trusting a review that we have read online or in a magazine, possibly someone we know has bought one, or buying it and having to return it if it doesn't work to our satisfaction.
My impression is that the salespeople are generally unable or unwilling to open the package and let us try one without us buying it. I long for the days when we had a store like Polk Bros. in the Chicago area, and the salespeople would go out of their way to let you try the radio in order to make the sale, even allowing you to take the radio to the window to get better reception - accompanied by the salesperson, of course.
Most places that HAD them didn't even have the stock AM loop antennas on them as they knew it was better to say that the antenna wasn't on it than to let someone try it an get absolutely nothing on AM in glorious Horrible Distortion. In fact most places that HAD them didn't even have them plugged in and they were, they were hidden off in some dark corner where no one would see it or them. They were treated like Yugos would have been in a Cadillac showroom and rightfully so, the junk just doesn't work.
And It looks like the same old krap is happening again, very few radios available and when they are they are to look at only, then comes the why don't you try a satrad radio, these things actually work.
No, BigA, I think the point is: if HD is going to be effectively promoted as a big technical improvement for radio - that's "radio, in general" - the much-touted "portable devices" which are allegedly going to save HD Radio should include AM and FM.
Of course, if this is tacit admission they're giving up on HD-AM, that's fine with me. HD-AMs should be ordered off the air at night at once, or in any case where they're the subject of an adjacent-channel complaint from another station.
Of course, if this is tacit admission they're giving up on HD-AM, that's fine with me. HD-AMs should be ordered off the air at night at once, or in any case where they're the subject of an adjacent-channel complaint from another station.
M
Mike Walker
Guest
While I agree that it ought to have AM, the lack of AM's inclusion wouldn't affect me one way or the other. There are no AM HD stations in my area, and i've long since given up on AM HD. Too big a sacrifice for a low-bitrate, artifact-filled format that actually sounds worse than good, wideband mono.
Then there's the problem of putting an AM tuner into a box with a CPU, and other noise-inducing circuitry. Of course it can be done, but is it worth it?
Now FM HD is a different matter. And fifty dollars is a FAIR price for a good pocket, headphone FM stereo radio. Here are just a few examples
http://www.ccrane.com/radios/pocket-radios/sangean-dt180a-pocket-radio.aspx
http://www.ccrane.com/radios/pocket-radios/sangean-dt220a-pocket-radio.aspx
http://universal-radio.com/catalog/spcialty/4502.html (great little radio, I paid 50 bucks for mine when it first came out)
http://universal-radio.com/catalog/spcialty/4400.html
http://www.jr.com/sony/pe/SON_SRFM37W/
So the Insignia is not only in line with the cost of other good quality headphone radios, it's less expensive than many of them. Living in a rural area, far from HD signals, I'm going to have to buy one just to see if it works here! Even if I only get one or two HD signals (I'm guessing WFDD in Winston-Salem, and WDAV Davidson), it will be worth purchasing if the DSP is used to enhance the reception of analog FM stereo, as is the case with the Sony XDR-F1HD. While the Sony works great for HD, it's real strength is it's ability to snatch analog FM stereo signals from great distances, in fully separated stereo, with apparently no noise penalgy over mono. Truly remarkable. I've read that analog FM stereo reception is better on the Insignia than just about any headphone portable. If this is true, then that's justification enough for it's existence, and for me to purchase it. Even if HD fails in the long term, it will have brought VERY useful technology that hopefully lots of manufacturers will employ...namely the use of DSP to enhance analog FM stereo reception!
Of course it's possible that, like the older Accurian and Boston Acoustics models, this one goes to mono at WAY too high a threshold, and begins to roll-off highs when signals are still pretty strong in order to prevent the listener from hearing ANY noise. Not a good approach, as it makes analog FM stereo sound quite a big worse then it needs to.
So this is potentially a sin-win situation. Heads we get a great portable HD radio and extra programming. B we get noise-frree, distortion-free, fully -separated FM stereo into the deep fringe areas with even a headphone cord for an antenna. That's the potential. Only time will tell. In the meantime, someone must learn how to force-analog on this portable. That feature should be mandatory!
Then there's the problem of putting an AM tuner into a box with a CPU, and other noise-inducing circuitry. Of course it can be done, but is it worth it?
Now FM HD is a different matter. And fifty dollars is a FAIR price for a good pocket, headphone FM stereo radio. Here are just a few examples
http://www.ccrane.com/radios/pocket-radios/sangean-dt180a-pocket-radio.aspx
http://www.ccrane.com/radios/pocket-radios/sangean-dt220a-pocket-radio.aspx
http://universal-radio.com/catalog/spcialty/4502.html (great little radio, I paid 50 bucks for mine when it first came out)
http://universal-radio.com/catalog/spcialty/4400.html
http://www.jr.com/sony/pe/SON_SRFM37W/
So the Insignia is not only in line with the cost of other good quality headphone radios, it's less expensive than many of them. Living in a rural area, far from HD signals, I'm going to have to buy one just to see if it works here! Even if I only get one or two HD signals (I'm guessing WFDD in Winston-Salem, and WDAV Davidson), it will be worth purchasing if the DSP is used to enhance the reception of analog FM stereo, as is the case with the Sony XDR-F1HD. While the Sony works great for HD, it's real strength is it's ability to snatch analog FM stereo signals from great distances, in fully separated stereo, with apparently no noise penalgy over mono. Truly remarkable. I've read that analog FM stereo reception is better on the Insignia than just about any headphone portable. If this is true, then that's justification enough for it's existence, and for me to purchase it. Even if HD fails in the long term, it will have brought VERY useful technology that hopefully lots of manufacturers will employ...namely the use of DSP to enhance analog FM stereo reception!
Of course it's possible that, like the older Accurian and Boston Acoustics models, this one goes to mono at WAY too high a threshold, and begins to roll-off highs when signals are still pretty strong in order to prevent the listener from hearing ANY noise. Not a good approach, as it makes analog FM stereo sound quite a big worse then it needs to.
So this is potentially a sin-win situation. Heads we get a great portable HD radio and extra programming. B we get noise-frree, distortion-free, fully -separated FM stereo into the deep fringe areas with even a headphone cord for an antenna. That's the potential. Only time will tell. In the meantime, someone must learn how to force-analog on this portable. That feature should be mandatory!
Mike Walker said:While the Sony works great for HD, it's real strength is it's ability to snatch analog FM stereo signals from great distances, in fully separated stereo, with apparently no noise penalgy over mono. Truly remarkable. I've read that analog FM stereo reception is better on the Insignia than just about any headphone portable. If this is true, then that's justification enough for it's existence, and for me to purchase it. Even if HD fails in the long term, it will have brought VERY useful technology that hopefully lots of manufacturers will employ...namely the use of DSP to enhance analog FM stereo reception!
The "spinoffs" from the development of HD receivers are certainly beneficial to the great majority of listeners who rely on analog FM, but I still would like to see what can be done to improve AM reception quality using DSP technology.*
Unfortunately, it is difficult (if not impossible) to put an efficient medium-wave antenna in a package as small as the new Insignia. The better AM portables, such as the C Crane, GE Superradio, and Sangean PR-D5 (which I own and truly enjoy) have relatively large ferrite loopsticks and this is how they achieve such good sensitivity. We are simply constrained by the laws of Physics, which is why AM broadcasters need to forget about IBOC as the path to digital and push for a transition to 76-88 MHz spectrum.
* While we're dreaming.... could a "smart" AM receiver be tied to a car's GPS navigation system and cell phone and automatically report excessive power line noise to the FCC and utility companies? There are some wicked noise problems in this area caused by power line hash WAY above the Part 15 limit which have gone uncorrected for months. I guess I need to start making some phone calls, but I don't expect results any time soon.
M
Mike Walker
Guest
I'm excited by the new digital radios like the Insignia, and specifically the benefits to analog FM stereo reception. But I'm just as excited to hear AM on a wideband radio, like my old SRF-A100, sounding far brighter and cleaner than it has any right to!
Savage said:Of course, if this is tacit admission they're giving up on HD-AM, that's fine with me.
Who is "they," You make it sound like iBiquity or the Alliance built this thing. They didn't. It was done by an outside company. If the Alliance built it, it would have been a zebra, right? When you're the Alliance, you take what you can get. As I said, the kindness of strangers.
>>So the Insignia is not only in line with the cost of other good quality headphone radios, it's less expensive than many of them.<<
Well Mike, that's only true if the Insignia radio has great FM reception as the Sangean models that you cited do. I own a couple of their pocket radios and can tell you that several of their models are even better than the highly touted Sony Walkman SRF-59.
If the Insignia is at least that good in analog, then you may have a point when it comes to value. However, those Sangean models do a good job with AM too; something that the Insignia doesn't offer. I have a feeling that those who noted interference from the HD processor are probably right - which is another bad omen for HD AM. That could also be why my tabletop Insignia HD Radio is so deaf on the AM band - even with an external antenna connected.
Again, my experience with those Insignia radios has not been good. Indeed, most are only a little more sensitive/selective than a clock radio from Walgreens. IF they've magically found the formula for a sensitive and selective FM tuner with HD built in, then yes it would be worth the $50. Time will tell, I guess.
Well Mike, that's only true if the Insignia radio has great FM reception as the Sangean models that you cited do. I own a couple of their pocket radios and can tell you that several of their models are even better than the highly touted Sony Walkman SRF-59.
If the Insignia is at least that good in analog, then you may have a point when it comes to value. However, those Sangean models do a good job with AM too; something that the Insignia doesn't offer. I have a feeling that those who noted interference from the HD processor are probably right - which is another bad omen for HD AM. That could also be why my tabletop Insignia HD Radio is so deaf on the AM band - even with an external antenna connected.
Again, my experience with those Insignia radios has not been good. Indeed, most are only a little more sensitive/selective than a clock radio from Walgreens. IF they've magically found the formula for a sensitive and selective FM tuner with HD built in, then yes it would be worth the $50. Time will tell, I guess.
Lack of AM is a deal-breaker for me even at 50 bucks
stormy01 said:Someday perhaps the technology might be perfected to the point where a user doesn't have to hold the antenna in the horizontal position or can only get reception less than 10 miles from the transmitter by a window facing the transmitter site!
Well, not for nothing, but at this very moment, I'm sitting in my office, 25.44 miles from the Empire State Building as the crow flies, according to Google Earth, with my two-day-old Insignia handheld radio listening to WXRK-HD2. Solid signal, no rebuffering.
Mitigating factors: I've got a headphone splitter, with one line going into my computer for listening, and the other going to the included headphiones, using them for antenna placement. Plus, there's only one wall between me and the office lounge that has a window with a line-of-sight view to the ESB.
...but it *is* 25 miles away, and I'm getting it loud and clear. I also get WPLJ and WCBS-FM; with some antenna rejiggering, I get WNEW.com (WWFS-HD2) and CD-101.9 (WRXP-HD2)
One negative: for a portable unit, it's not very tolerant of its portability. If you can get it somewhere where it's receiving a station in HD, leave it there.
Sadly, there's a ridge between me and 90.5 The Night (HD1 only) so no luck there (not even analog) but at least I can get them in Freehold on the second floor of my house (12.12 miles) with the little unit.
But for now, K-Rock's playing Portishead. Pretty cool.
An immovable portable?
I can't see average listeners keeping this INSIGNIA PORTABLE HD RADIO PLAYER if reception and antenna placement are that critical.
Similar to a Walkman isn't the usefullness of this gadget that you can listen reliably while mobile?
One negative: for a portable unit, it's not very tolerant of its portability. If you can get it somewhere where it's receiving a station in HD, leave it there.
I can't see average listeners keeping this INSIGNIA PORTABLE HD RADIO PLAYER if reception and antenna placement are that critical.
Similar to a Walkman isn't the usefullness of this gadget that you can listen reliably while mobile?
SUPERCASTER said:I can't see average listeners keeping this INSIGNIA PORTABLE HD RADIO PLAYER if reception and antenna placement are that critical.
Similar to a Walkman isn't the usefullness of this gadget that you can listen reliably while mobile?
YES, and it's one of the biggest hurdles to this technology. Even adequately powered HD TV signals will break up when you're moving around. Digital boosters like to pretend that it doesn't exist; but it does.
In Bob from Ibiquity's little pro-HD rant, he commented about satellite receivers' ability to hold a digital signal when mobile. Well, they also use a different piece of the spectrum. But I get the impression that Bob's a money guy and isn't too keen on that greasy technical stuff....
Hey BigA: okay, okay, I'll rephrase.
"If this is a tacit admission HD proponents are turning their backs on AM-HD - given the amount of hype over this lone Best Buy product and the relentless drumbeat to the effect that the sudden availability of HD portables (HD portable?) demands the IBOC-FM digital power hike - that's fine with me. In any case HD-AM at night, or for that matter ANY HD operation which has produced adjacent-channel interference complaints, should be ordered to be discontinued at once."
Happy now?
(The rest of your post is indecipherable. Just sayin'.)
"If this is a tacit admission HD proponents are turning their backs on AM-HD - given the amount of hype over this lone Best Buy product and the relentless drumbeat to the effect that the sudden availability of HD portables (HD portable?) demands the IBOC-FM digital power hike - that's fine with me. In any case HD-AM at night, or for that matter ANY HD operation which has produced adjacent-channel interference complaints, should be ordered to be discontinued at once."
Happy now?
(The rest of your post is indecipherable. Just sayin'.)
- Status
- This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.