Breaking:FCC dismisses all the Weather Alert Radio Network LPFM Applications.

[PTBoardOp93]

I think most NOAA Weather Radio sites use these Nautel 1kW transmitters, which were ordered and installed about 10 years ago.

VHF Weather Radio Systems - Nautel Nav

nautelnav.com

The NOAA facilities I'm aware of are co-located with other users. Sometimes public safety (highway patrol, etc), sometimes commercial broadcast.

The NWS office for Lincoln, IL posted a good photo of a tower crew rigging one of their antennas on the tower of WCIA-TV/Champaign, IL. https://www.weather.gov/images/ilx/NWR/KevinLighty_TowerCrewAntennaInstall_21.png

 

[bturner1]

That's a good question...somewhat like an FM?

 

[Deleted member 108832]

That's a good question...somewhat like an FM?

Exactly like an FM. THe NOAA station WXK36 serving us is a sideways mounted antenna on the tower at Hideaway, shared with 104.1 The Ranch.

 

[crainbebo]

When the power goes and cell service is knocked out, that's a good sign that either #1 - you should have evacuated long before (hurricane), or #2 - time to get the hell to your storm shelter!! (tornado) You don't need an LPFM system to tell you that
Besides, we have NOAA, and in many tornadic/hurricane markets, FM stations simulcast TV or a central radio station, ala Operation Stormwatch via WFLA when Hurricane Ian hit FL. Those TV stations will promote that "we are being simulcast now on 94.5 the X, 95.5 X-FM, and 107.7 Whatever", for example.

I wonder if there are statistics: during severe weather events like tornado outbreaks, are people more likely to use their NOAA radios, or do most listen to the radio simulcast/watch TV coverage from their local meteorologists?

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

I think most NOAA Weather Radio sites use these Nautel 1kW transmitters, which were ordered and installed about 10 years ago.

VHF Weather Radio Systems - Nautel Nav

nautelnav.com

The NOAA facilities I'm aware of are co-located with other users. Sometimes public safety (highway patrol, etc), sometimes commercial broadcast.

The NWS office for Lincoln, IL posted a good photo of a tower crew rigging one of their antennas on the tower of WCIA-TV/Champaign, IL. https://www.weather.gov/images/ilx/NWR/KevinLighty_TowerCrewAntennaInstall_21.png

They also use Armstrong transmitters.. ive seen one in Laramie, WY where I helped maintain a translator.

 

[ZebraRadio]

On another forum that was discussing the WARN application deception, one LPFM station owner said that he set up his own weather station and broadcasts the readings from that. He says his listeners love the hyper-local nature of his weather reporting and that it changes throughout the day. For predictions he uses the NWS and checks it daily.

 

[secondchoice]

I knew these apps would be dismissed and rejected. What a waste of FM spectrum. I think even TIS stations are in their last days too. We have phones now. All we have to do is Google the weather...voila there it is, with the weather alerts also listed. Tornado/severe T-storm warnings go out via EAS anyway, and in tornadic markets, ,major FM stations simulcast TV during severe weather.

True in urban areas but out here in "fly over country" if you are 10 on more miles from an Interstate or major 4 lane highway cell coverage is spotty. IIRC T-Mobile has issues I Iowa. Last year my Version failed once I got more than a mile off I 79 in central West Virginia. EAS activation doesn't always work because of local emergency management employees poor training or offical's stupidity. But that is another thread.

 

[rfburns]

I think most NOAA Weather Radio sites use these Nautel 1kW transmitters, which were ordered and installed about 10 years ago.

VHF Weather Radio Systems - Nautel Nav

nautelnav.com

The NOAA facilities I'm aware of are co-located with other users. Sometimes public safety (highway patrol, etc), sometimes commercial broadcast.

The NWS office for Lincoln, IL posted a good photo of a tower crew rigging one of their antennas on the tower of WCIA-TV/Champaign, IL. https://www.weather.gov/images/ilx/NWR/KevinLighty_TowerCrewAntennaInstall_21.png

I've had a few FM sites co-located on the same tower with NOAA sites. Besides Nautel and Armstrong, Crown made some of the transmitters too. All the sites I ever saw had dual transmitters with automatic changeover. Older sites typically used a Decibel Systems (Now Commscope) DB-224 VHF antenna.

 

[kevtronics]

Here in the Watchung Mountains of central NJ, the cell phone companies have propped up their coverage with small telephone-pole-mounted neighborhood repeaters. But if the power goes out, they do too -- the repeaters don't have any battery backup (or at least not more than a few minutes' worth). During a power outage, I have to stand directly in front of an outside window to get any cell service in my home, and it becomes voice-only -- no data service.

 

[secondchoice]

I wonder if there are statistics: during severe weather events like tornado outbreaks, are people more likely to use their NOAA radios, or do most listen to the radio simulcast/watch TV coverage from their local meteorologists?

I doubt there are enough NOAA radio owners to get a good sample. I am amazed at the number of people in this country who are totally unprepared weather wise. Even if you don't have an inexpensive weather radio there are forecasts on radio, TV, if you are lucky enough to still have a daily local newspaper, weather.com and several decent weather apps. Some localities have tornado sirens and reverse 911 that will give you 10 minutes warning. I am amazed at the people who will drive their cars into unknown water depths too. During a 200 year flood (1985) in my Dad's hometown, the fire department could not get some homeowners to move higher ground. One gentleman told them he had lived there 40 years and it had never flooded his house before. Then fire Chief asked who was his next of kin because the chief was not going to risk any of his men.

He and his wife spent the night in the attic in waist deep water. Then he had the balls to get on a local TV interview and said he wasn't warned it would be that bad.

 

[Mikey Radio]

I doubt there are enough NOAA radio owners to get a good sample. I am amazed at the number of people in this country who are totally unprepared weather wise. Even if you don't have an inexpensive weather radio there are forecasts on radio, TV, if you are lucky enough to still have a daily local newspaper, weather.com and several decent weather apps. Some localities have tornado sirens and reverse 911 that will give you 10 minutes warning. I am amazed at the people who will drive their cars into unknown water depths too. During a 200 year flood (1985) in my Dad's hometown, the fire department could not get some homeowners to move higher ground. One gentleman told them he had lived there 40 years and it had never flooded his house before. Then fire Chief asked who was his next of kin because the chief was not going to risk any of his men.

He and his wife spent the night in the attic in waist deep water. Then he had the balls to get on a local TV interview and said he wasn't warned it would be that bad.

What's more amazing is when a large weather system like a hurricane is coming. While it is often difficult to know exactly where and at what intensity it will make landfall, they're usually able to predict a number of days in advance that something nasty is coming. Still, 2-3 days out, most gas stations and grocery stores within the "forecast cone" are no busier than usual, save a few (like us) who watch the forecast and start stocking/gassing up. 2 days or less in from predicted landfall is when stores and fuel stops start really getting busy and just hours in advance is when shortages start happening and lines form around the block. Still, there are often stories of little to no real preparation done by some when the thing finally hits.

Severe storms, tornadoes or mass power outages I can understand as they're more sudden, sometimes occurring with little warning - but hurricanes are usually a different story, and still people procrastinate or simply don't heed.

 

[bigdonho]

Here in south Florida, where hurricanes are an annual thing, we have a couple of large totes for hurricane supplies and five 5 gallon gas cans for the generator. I keep an eye on the "spaghetti maps" to see which way the storm is trending. Never had to stand in line for supplies. Hurricane shutters go up for a Cat-2 or greater.

I am always surprised by the people who do the panic buying thing.

BTW: I have never been disappointed taking down the shutters.

 

[crainbebo]

Any of us who worked in the grocery industry will never forget the weekend of March 13th-15th, 2020. And yes, I admit I did a 'little' panic buying...filled up the freezer and what not in the early days of COVID, but to finish my cleaning shift at the end of that Sunday night and see 3/4ths of the store empty, like they were going out of business, was surreal. Checkout lines 6-10 carts deep with every check out open, averaging $200-300 in food. Sometimes even $600-700.
I'm guessing the same thing happens regularly when hurricanes are predicted to hit FL? Just without the toilet paper crisis

 

[bigdonho]

Any of us who worked in the grocery industry will never forget the weekend of March 13th-15th, 2020. And yes, I admit I did a 'little' panic buying...filled up the freezer and what not in the early days of COVID, but to finish my cleaning shift at the end of that Sunday night and see 3/4ths of the store empty, like they were going out of business, was surreal. Checkout lines 6-10 carts deep with every check out open, averaging $200-300 in food. Sometimes even $600-700.
I'm guessing the same thing happens regularly when hurricanes are predicted to hit FL? Just without the toilet paper crisis

Nah, the toilet paper gets gone, too.

 

[DaveBayArea]

When the power goes and cell service is knocked out, that's a good sign that either #1 - you should have evacuated long before (hurricane), or #2 - time to get the hell to your storm shelter!! (tornado) You don't need an LPFM system to tell you that

That may be true for some areas, but power outages and ensuing Internet failure is pretty much a bimonthly occurrence here in the foothills of California. Power can be out for days due to:

• A wildfire threat - known as a "PSPS" (Public Safety Power Shutoff)
• An actual wildfire
• Windstorms / snowstorms that take out trees & power infrastructure.

Cell sites and Xfinity last a few hours after the power outage, but not days. Only a small percentage of the people affected actually need to evacuate or are in harm's way. We've learned to exist just fine without commercial power. But we still want to be informed, and local radio broadcasters have a duty to do so.

Dave B.

 

[bturner1]

Agreed DaveBayArea. The poster has not experienced such things such as Tropical Storm Allison in Houston that was simply forecasted not as a tropical storm which went up in East Texas and now with winds at about 15 mph, floats down to Houston about 4pm. By 6pm flooding across the cities. 18 wheelers bobbing in freeways about 10 or 11pm. By the same time evacuation centers, 33 of 35 have flooded. All hospitals have shut down due to a loss of power. 911 is down. Cell service is out. Landline phones are iffy. Several radio stations are off the air. So, a such a station could be of use if it had redundant back-ups for power and the transmitter feed.

 

[fybush]

And you believe a 100-watt LPFM is going to have the resources to build a hardened redundant facility like that, times several hundred sites?

Because I sure don't.

 

[DaveBayArea]

And you believe a 100-watt LPFM is going to have the resources to build a hardened redundant facility like that, times several hundred sites?

Because I sure don't.

Yeah, I forgot what the initial discussion was. Certainly the power requirements are less, but you're absolutely right. This string of applications probably could not fulfill that need.

Dave B.

 

[fybush]

Yeah, I forgot what the initial discussion was. Certainly the power requirements are less, but you're absolutely right. This string of applications probably could not fulfill that need.

Dave B.

It's also just not the right way to fulfill that kind of need. The hardened facilities we all need can't ever be efficient at a 100-watt scale. It's a need that can only be served by big facilities, and it's still the best remaining case for the class A AM service.

 

[davideduardo]

I'm guessing the same thing happens regularly when hurricanes are predicted to hit FL? Just without the toilet paper crisis

After about 30 years in Puerto Rico, I learned that a coming hurricane required the immediate purchase of a Puerto Rico Hurricane Survival Kit: Several cases of Corona, and many bags of snacks. Some Don Q was also a good idea.

The food, toilet paper, batteries and bottled water were secondary