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Breaking news: Channel 3 & 15 Choppers collide & crash at Indian School Park

Re: Breaking news: Channel 3 & 15 Choppers collide & crash at Indian School Par

They can charge him, sure, remember the old saying "You can indict a ham sandwich"

But getting it to stick? Probably not.

What if one of these copters struck a building and killed people there, would you be in favor of the TV stations being charged?

Its their equipment and it would have killed someone.

The man in the truck didn't cause the accident, he didn't cause 5 news directors to have to be the first to cover a nothing story that all of Phoenix would have forgotten by the afternoon, his crime (apart from the theft of the car) was that he was involved in a fast paced sexy story that looks good on TV.
 
Re: Breaking news: Channel 3 & 15 Choppers collide & crash at Indian School Park

We shall see. I'm just reporting here what 2 tv networks and several newspaper and radio reporters have stated. You know better. Right!

You say The man in the truck didn't cause the accident. Well, ALL those choppers would be on the ground and the news directors HAVING A sleepy Friday if it wasn't for the truck thief. They should fry him.
 
Re: Breaking news: Channel 3 & 15 Choppers collide & crash at Indian School Park

We shall see. I'm just reporting here what 2 tv networks and several newspaper and radio reporters have stated. You know better. Right!

You say The man in the truck didn't cause the accident. Well, ALL those choppers would be on the ground and the news directors HAVING A sleepy Friday with a mouth full of doughnuts if it wasn't for the truck thief. They should fry him.
 
Re: Breaking news: Channel 3 & 15 Choppers collide & crash at Indian School Par

I don't know better, I am stating my opinion.

You can take it or leave it.

But, in a case like this, you need to think with your head instead of your heart. Leave the emotion out of it.
 
Re: Breaking news: Channel 3 & 15 Choppers collide & crash at Indian School Park

No emotion. News and legal experience, and a law dictionary and watching network news. we shall see.
 
Re: Breaking news: Channel 3 & 15 Choppers collide & crash at Indian School Park

hammondo said:
Legend, please read the definition of negligent homicide in my post below - and then, tell me what your opinion is. You are not differing with me - but with the LAW.

The man in the truck is a thief. If poeple DIE when a crime is being committed that YOU cause - YOU are guilty.

The THIEF IS the CAUSE of the pilots deaths.
Click to expand...

So, according to your theory, suppose you cause a minor fender bender (you are at fault) and the police are called. If the police officer responding to your accident collides with an SUV killing 4 people in the SUV, then you SHOULD be charged with 4 counts of negligent homicide. What a sad commentary on society!
 
Re: Breaking news: Channel 3 & 15 Choppers collide & crash at Indian School Par

No, I was using a logic technique on you, Reductio ad absurdum.

Sorry if it went over your head.

I was proffering a theory that was absurd to show that your theory is absurd.

The heart of the matter is: Why do we need 5 helicopters covering a nothing story? And they were endangering the police helicopter by being there.

What would happen if a news copter collides with a police copter in the future?

I think the stations better figure out how to police themselves before government does it for them.
 
Re: Breaking news: Channel 3 & 15 Choppers collide & crash at Indian School Park

"The heart of the matter."? Defined by what, "your opinion?" Did you go to law school or is that from frequent watching of Law and Order?

Legend, to what are you answering no? "Proffer" this; The heart of the matter is 4 people are dead because the cause of the choppers in the air is the truck theft. The choppers would have been on the ground if not for the thief committing a felony.

Again, I'm just reporting here what 2 tv networks and several newspaper and radio reporters have stated about the truck thief.

"Negligent homicide" is up to the D.A. In most states vehicle theft a felony. The fender bender in formeraa's example is certainly merely a misdemeanor.I was NOT violating any law - like the car thief was.

in that example, it would also depend on the attorney I would hire, and mine is my daughters Godfather (if you know what I mean).

Underline provided so it is easier for you to understand. See, I can talk down to you, too.
 
Re: Breaking news: Channel 3 & 15 Choppers collide & crash at Indian School Par

This is how Arizona state law defines Negligent Homicide:

13-1102. Negligent homicide; classification

A. A person commits negligent homicide if with criminal negligence the person causes the death of another person, including an unborn child.

B. An offense under this section applies to an unborn child in the womb at any stage of its development. A person may not be prosecuted under this section if any of the following applies:

1. The person was performing an abortion for which the consent of the pregnant woman, or a person authorized by law to act on the pregnant woman's behalf, has been obtained or for which the consent was implied or authorized by law.

2. The person was performing medical treatment on the pregnant woman or the pregnant woman's unborn child.

3. The person was the unborn child's mother.

C. Negligent homicide is a class 4 felony.

Section A might apply here.

Link: Arizona Revised Statutes Title 13 - Criminal Code
 
Re: Breaking news: Channel 3 & 15 Choppers collide & crash at Indian School Park

hammondo said:
"The heart of the matter."? Defined by what, "your opinion?" Did you go to law school or is that from frequent watching of Law and Order?

Legend, to what are you answering no? "Proffer" this; The heart of the matter is 4 people are dead because the cause of the choppers in the air is the truck theft. The choppers would have been on the ground if not for the thief committing a felony.

Again, I'm just reporting here what 2 tv networks and several newspaper and radio reporters have stated about the truck thief.

"Negligent homicide" is up to the D.A. In most states vehicle theft a felony. The fender bender in formeraa's example is certainly merely a misdemeanor.I was NOT violating any law - like the car thief was.

in that example, it would also depend on the attorney I would hire, and mine is my daughters Godfather (if you know what I mean).

Underline provided so it is easier for you to understand. See, I can talk down to you, too.
Click to expand...

OK. So, a misdemeanor is NOT breaking the law???

Suppose in my example that you ran a red light and caused a minor accident (car damage only). Then, would you be responsible for the deaths of 4 people in my example?

But, then again, I'm not lawyer and not claiming to be well-versed in legal theory...
 
Re: Breaking news: Channel 3 & 15 Choppers collide & crash at Indian School Par

I know its being reported. Amazing that local news found the time to report something, these days they are "Entertainment Tonite" with car chases and crashes.

They can charge whatever they want, the trick is getting it to stick.
 
Re: Breaking news: Channel 3 & 15 Choppers collide & crash at Indian School Park

It keeps being reported that the KTVK chopper flew into the KNXV chopper. From the NTSB and every witness account I have heard, the KNXV helicopter flew into the KTVK chopper that was hovering at the time. Knowing Scott Bowerbank for years, I couldn't see him making a mistake. I have flown with him at least a hundred times and he is by far the safest and best pilot I have ever known. If you listen to the audio that KNXV has broadcast it was KNXV who had lost KTVK's chopper. They were also still reporting on the chase at the time of the collision instead of keeping visual seperation from all choppers in the air. I'm not here to place blame on the pilot from KNXV. I'm just correcting bad information that has been put out here. It would be a slap in Scott Bowerbanks face to say that he was to blame when the information so far shows that he was hovering in a set location and set altitude. Also, the Westcor aviation operation that maintains the KTVK, KPHO, KPNX and KSAZ helicopters are known throughout the world as a leader in aircaft maintanence. They did just finish a 500 hour on the ship and swap for the new HD lens. The NTSB will hopefully find a definitive finding so that we can all have a sense of what happened. Just please get your facts straight before you post.

Thank You

3tv Photographer
 
Re: Breaking news: Channel 3 & 15 Choppers collide & crash at Indian School Par

fenix said:
It keeps being reported that the KTVK chopper flew into the KNXV chopper. From the NTSB and every witness account I have heard, the KNXV helicopter flew into the KTVK chopper that was hovering at the time. Knowing Scott Bowerbank for years, I couldn't see him making a mistake. I have flown with him at least a hundred times and he is by far the safest and best pilot I have ever known. If you listen to the audio that KNXV has broadcast it was KNXV who had lost KTVK's chopper. They were also still reporting on the chase at the time of the collision instead of keeping visual seperation from all choppers in the air. I'm not here to place blame on the pilot from KNXV. I'm just correcting bad information that has been put out here. It would be a slap in Scott Bowerbanks face to say that he was to blame when the information so far shows that he was hovering in a set location and set altitude. Also, the Westcor aviation operation that maintains the KTVK, KPHO, KPNX and KSAZ helicopters are known throughout the world as a leader in aircaft maintanence. They did just finish a 500 hour on the ship and swap for the new HD lens. The NTSB will hopefully find a definitive finding so that we can all have a sense of what happened. Just please get your facts straight before you post.

Thank You

3tv Photographer
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your two comrades, and the loss of the KNXV crew as well. I was watching the extended editions of "Good Morning Arizona" and "Good Evening Arizona" on Friday and Saturday. There's no doubt that the pilots from both Channel 3 and Channel 15 were total professionals and were quite qualified in what they did. What happened was a freak accident and could have happened anywhere, anytime. I'm sure that the NTSB will get to the bottom of this and have a definitive explanation for all to see. The man in the truck will no doubt will have some blame in instigating this hot pursuit in the first place. He will have to live with that.

Let's all wait to see what transpires.

Peter Q. George (K1XRB)
Whitman, Massachusetts
 
Re: Breaking news: Channel 3 & 15 Choppers collide & crash at Indian School Park

fenix said:
It keeps being reported that the KTVK chopper flew into the KNXV chopper. From the NTSB and every witness account I have heard, the KNXV helicopter flew into the KTVK chopper that was hovering at the time...The NTSB will hopefully find a definitive finding so that we can all have a sense of what happened. Just please get your facts straight before you post.

Thank You

3tv Photographer
Click to expand...

fenix:

First, let me extend my deepest sympathies to you and all at KTVK and KNXV for your loss. I'm sure everyone on this board feels that way.

Secondly, I think I'm right on this, I don't believe anyone on this board has posted a comment or even an opinion that the KTVK chopper flew into the KNXV chopper. I'm not sure who is "reporting" it that way? The other media outlets?

I know in my post on the other Investigation thread I specifically mentioned the NTSB's reported comments regarding the early eyewitness accounts, the crash videos, etc. All seem to indicate, at this time, that it was the KNXV chopper that moved into the KTVK helicopter for whatever reason. The NTSB board member was quoted in the Republic article as saying just that.

Like everyone else, we're trying to follow the accident investigation which will hopefully yield the truth and a way to help prevent this from happening again.

Again, my heartfelt condolences.
 
Re: Breaking news: Channel 3 & 15 Choppers collide & crash at Indian School Park

I've listened to quite a few of the media outlets here in Phoenix. Nobody has said that 3's helicopter flow into 15's helicopter. In fact, I've heard several reports from witness accounts and the NTSB spokesman that 3 was hovering and 15 was moving. The NTSB will provide some tentative observations on Friday.
 
Re: Breaking news: Channel 3 & 15 Choppers collide & crash at Indian School Par

For those who don't frequent the D/FW TV boards:

A helicopter owned by CBS and leased to KDFW-TV/FOX 4 made a hard landing near Joe Pool Lake in Grand Prairie today. Three people (the pilot and two traffic reporters) were aboard, but thankfully managed to walk away from the wreckage, which wound up on its side. The pilot was able to make an autorotation landing after apparent engine failure. Listening to the audio from the footage on WFAA-TV's (Channel 8/ABC) website it's obvious the engine quit - first the cessation of engine sounds and then the loud "beep-beep" of the master caution.

Chip Waggoner, KDFW's traffic reporter, and Julie DeHarty, the traffic reporter for KRLD Radio and KVIL-FM, suffered minor injuries and were taken to a local hospital. The pilot, Curtis Crump, is a Tarrant County (TX) Sheriff's Dept. chopper pilot and was commended for his ability to bring the chopper in safely.
 
Re: Breaking news: Channel 3 & 15 Choppers collide & crash at Indian School Park

formeraa said:
hammondo said:
Legend, please read the definition of negligent homicide in my post below - and then, tell me what your opinion is. You are not differing with me - but with the LAW.

The man in the truck is a thief. If poeple DIE when a crime is being committed that YOU cause - YOU are guilty.

The THIEF IS the CAUSE of the pilots deaths.
Click to expand...

So, according to your theory, suppose you cause a minor fender bender (you are at fault) and the police are called. If the police officer responding to your accident collides with an SUV killing 4 people in the SUV, then you SHOULD be charged with 4 counts of negligent homicide. What a sad commentary on society!
Click to expand...

There needs to be a criminal act. I note you didn't use the word "accident", instead choosing "fender bender". There's a reason it's called an "accident".
 
Re: Breaking news: Channel 3 & 15 Choppers collide & crash at Indian School Park

It hurts my heart to know that these talented gentlemen were take way too early. I count my blessings everyday.
 
Re: Breaking news: Channel 3 & 15 Choppers collide & crash at Indian School Park

An article from ABCNews on the vehicle thief's potential liability in the news copter collision, with comments from Rick Romley. Romley believes charges wouldn't stick.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3429475&page=1

The most interesting thing about this story is the content and tone of the 50 reader comments. About zero sympathy for the chopper crews, and most think that the stations and their ND's should be responsible for the crash.
 
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