• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Bulletin to watch: CBS-FM days from switching back to OLDIES!

They need a "sackcloth and ashes" type stunt to recover. Which is a VERY DO-ABLE campaign.

I mean, it's embarassing to put up billboards that say "101.1 FM is VERY VERY SORRY" in conjunction with some sort of stunt that loops for a few days saying they're sorry "...and tune in a 5 PM on Friday." Then re-launch as Oldies 101 "Back by popular demand."

But after hearing the KZON stunt ... I'm not counting on it. The Free Paris stunt could've been so much more than it ended up being.
 
Re: CBS-FM

fang39 said:
Because the programming stopped evolving. I'm not one of those who believes "oldies" only extends to music from 1955-1974. I go by the "25 year" rule of thumb. By sprinkling in tunes from the early 80's you keep in line with the demos that are attractive to advertisers. I do believe, however, that the station, whether it's termed "Oldies" or "Classic Hits," should make room to honor its legacy and music by including programs like "Norm N. Nite-Live from the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame" and "Don K. Reed's Doo-Wopp Shoppe," even if played in off-hours.
However, moving the chronology doesn't necessarily mean the programming mentality will follow suit. And the problem with oldies-moving-into-the-80s in practice is that it's been the kind of "Uptown Girl"/"Kokomo"-heavy insipid hack Reader's Digest version of the 80s that only reinforces the 55+ adult-lifestyle geezerdom of a format desperate to shake the stereotype. With that in mind, you might as well keep the pre-1964 material.

And it's not the first time the fallacy of such "artificial evolution" has been demonstrated; think back to when easy listening artists donned the paisley and wicka-wicka guitar and did covers of stuff like "Love The One You're With" back in the 60s and 70s. It sure didn't save the genre; it probably helped kill it.

Painful as this may sound, Jack-FM is/was closer to the right track on how younger demos actually "operate" relative to their formative 80s; that it failed so abjectly (and cluelessly) might just as well demonstrate the end of the line for the medium--video (and more importantly, what it begat, the Internet revolution included) really *did* kill the radio star.

Now, re the too-abstract/simplistic notion of "demos that are attractive to advertisers": what *kinds* of advertisers? More important, what kind has radio succeeded in attracting? Remember that the kinds of advertisers that would signify "hip" (a take-it-outsided post in this thread mentioned iPhone) are increasingly *not* choosing radio. Attractive advertisers bring attractive listeners and other attractive advertisers; it's a snowball process. But increasingly, radio's out of that loop. The "growth" is in the low end: furniture-warehouse hucksters, hair-loss formulae, beer. It makes for a slummy, marginal impression--and it's nothing to do with targeted age chronology.

Maybe that's where the hope lies behind returning to oldies; it's a format that, at the very least, is understood to elicit a certain "natural dignity" among its advertisers. So maybe it's "dignity demos" rather than "age demos" we should be thinking of--and it's not necessarily a geezer thing; after all, iPhone and all Apple i-Whatever signify a modern-age version of "dignity"...
 
Anyone, besides me, hoping for a redeux of the 92.3 stunt, leading into the rebirth of K-Rock???

I'm sorry, excellent production chops....
 
CBS-FM made a mistake from the get-go by flipping to Jack. I think because of the sheer loyalty and the fact that the demos for "Jack" were shuffling about on the sidewalks of Manhattan with black coats and iPod headphones (kinda scary if you're a country boy from the south visiting in November).

I also think radio in general has really worked hard to reinvent the oldies format...IMO the old style of 50s-60s died when CBS-FM flipped and the more "classic hits" version will be given a big boost with the return of CBS-FM.

adma said:
However, moving the chronology doesn't necessarily mean the programming mentality will follow suit. And the problem with oldies-moving-into-the-80s in practice is that it's been the kind of "Uptown Girl"/"Kokomo"-heavy insipid hack Reader's Digest version of the 80s that only reinforces the 55+ adult-lifestyle geezerdom of a format desperate to shake the stereotype. With that in mind, you might as well keep the pre-1964 material.

This I think will prove whether oldies will survive in the radio world. I dont think people would have a problem hearing Stray Cats into The Supremes into Dire Straights...perhaps a happy balance between the Jack format that was supposed to be "the wave of the future" and the durable oldies format.

Radio-X
 
justareporter said:
I am no expert when it comes to music. Not even close. Less when it comes to the "science" of figuring out what 30, 40 & 50 year olds listen to the radio.

That said, here are some things I do know: At 52 I have more disposable money than I have ever had before. My work with 20 & 30 somethings suggests they do not.

I like listening to music on the radio, don't believe in satellite radio and can't seem to find much of anything on FM worth listening to.

EVERY time I used to be in NY I used to listen to CBS-FM and more thean once wound up trying to find an advertiser 'cause I liked the spot.

I haven't listened to CBS-FM since they went "Jerk"....errr...."Jack."

To all the advertising geniuses: want to find people with disposable income? Look at people from their mid-40's to 60's. their kids are out of school, the mortgage is paid and ....they're still working!


BRILLIANT!!! I'm 31 and have spent most of my career selling 50+ demo formats. This is exactly what I preach when I'm sitting in front of Mr. Advertiser. It's true. Baby boomers are not old, decrepit and set in their ways.

"Hit the Road Jack!, and don't you come back. . . ."
 
Bill DeFelice said:
I love the idea of CBS-FM returning to oldies, but I wonder just how well it will take off now that 101.1 is "damaged goods" I bet many people will refuse to listen, justifying by claiming "hurt feeling" or "too little, too late". My stream picked up many departed CBS-FM fans and while I don't want to let them go, I love what the renewed interest in oldies on CBS-FM may bring.

I have a sad feeling that the legendary jocks will be fewer if any at all. You now, they still have to sell ad time on there so they are going to try to open the demo I would think. If executed well it could be even better than the old 101.1. I do have to say Joe McCoy got the short end of the stick in the later years of the station as management forced changes on him. I bet if they hired Joe back as a consultant the station would kick some serious butt.

Countin' the days 'til the rebirth!

BTW: If anybody rolls tape on Thursday I'd love to get a copy!


Sad, but this is a brilliant point too. This could very well be the outcome. Indeed, it may be too late.
 
DavidEduardo said:
amfmsw said:
But I thought all of you consultants were infallible, Selling to Boomers is a waste of time. No one markets to them anymore. We're too old. We don't buy things or change brands. And we were assured Oldies, even a '70's format, was too old and too hard to sell.

Nobody has said a Classic Hits format is bad; it is very 40-54, and highly, enormously salable.

On the other hand, 50's oldies are the sales kiss of death; 60's makes a station balance swing predominantly 55+.

Hey Chrysler...still wanna market Hemi V-8's to Women 18-34? Yeah. they're lined up around the corner waiting to buy '60's retro Chargers and Challengers. Sure, stations like CBS-FM were perfect for what we have to sell, but our Marketing Dept. and Agency buyers say we need a younger, female demo.

Agency buyers do not determine demos... demos for media buys are specified by the agency client, based on product design and market research. No matter how much you whine, there are essentially no buys for 55+ coming out of America's agencies for radio campaigns.

If a station focused entirely on 55+, and got 100% of the audience, it would get only an occasional agency buy and a bunch of low rate direct buys... because there is practically no interest in over-55's because clients know the ROI on such ad expenditures is poor or nonexistent.

Y'know, Mr. Eduardo, I've read your posts all over these boards, and one common thread is in all of them: you are decidedly anti 40+, and you come across as if you, and ONLY you, know anything about radio. Sixties music makes a station swing 55+? I don't think so. I'm 47. I grew up with Sixties AM radio, the true golden age of Top 40. This music endures, despite naysayers like you. Amazingly, much of it has found its way into television commercials, and folks from all demos still buy stuff. This music is well recognized by kids in their teens, for crying out loud.

One of the reason terrestrial radio is faltering is its failure to program a broad spectrum of formats. Cheap, er Clear Channel is feeling the fallout of being a homogenized radio company, as is CBS. I say BRAVO to CBS for restoring K-Rock to NYC (Eduardo: It'll fail, it doesn't appeal to slightly post pubescent females). It'd be great to see an updated CBS-FM return, with only the gems of the fifties (let's call them Gold Nuggets, or something similar), a solid 60's rotation, and a blend of the 70's and 80's, consistent with the format...along with personalities to present the music. Doesn't have to be Dan Ingram, or any of the old guys, just people with personality.

There's this little station on the central Jersey shore, known as the Breeze (99.7 WBHX Tuckerton/107.1 WWZY Long Branch; both class A's) that format heavily with 60's music, presented by jocks with personality. Disproving your theory, sir, the combo is pulling very good numbers.

I feel that you, and people like you, are why terrestrial radio is dying a painful death. Honestly, most listeners don't care what you think. We just want radio that is fun to listen to.
 
RadioGaGa75 said:
justareporter said:
I am no expert when it comes to music. Not even close. Less when it comes to the "science" of figuring out what 30, 40 & 50 year olds listen to the radio.

That said, here are some things I do know: At 52 I have more disposable money than I have ever had before. My work with 20 & 30 somethings suggests they do not.

I like listening to music on the radio, don't believe in satellite radio and can't seem to find much of anything on FM worth listening to.

EVERY time I used to be in NY I used to listen to CBS-FM and more thean once wound up trying to find an advertiser 'cause I liked the spot.

I haven't listened to CBS-FM since they went "Jerk"....errr...."Jack."

To all the advertising geniuses: want to find people with disposable income? Look at people from their mid-40's to 60's. their kids are out of school, the mortgage is paid and ....they're still working!


BRILLIANT!!! I'm 31 and have spent most of my career selling 50+ demo formats. This is exactly what I preach when I'm sitting in front of Mr. Advertiser. It's true. Baby boomers are not old, decrepit and set in their ways.

"Hit the Road Jack!, and don't you come back. . . ."

Alas, you are BOTH wrong!! David Eduardo said so ;)

Sarcasm aside, I'm 47, the mortgage is really small, and I'm making a lot of money, a portion of which I plan to spend on stuff I could not afford in my 20's and 30's. Hope radio is on the crest of a big revival.
 
Don said:
Y'know, Mr. Eduardo, I've read your posts all over these boards, and one common thread is in all of them: you are decidedly anti 40+,

I am neither for nor against any demo. However, in the rated markets, commercial radio must program to the age groups advertisers require And advertisers seldom request listeners under 17 or over 55, which is why commercial radio seldom tailors formats for those age groups. .

and you come across as if you, and ONLY you, know anything about radio.

This would only be the impression of someone who thinks they have a different answer. Do you?

Sixties music makes a station swing 55+? I don't think so.

In general terms, any type of library music (in other words, non-current hits) appeals principally to the group who grew up on the music. A person who was 12 in 1960 is 59 now. A person who was 12 in 1966 is 53 now, just two years out of the sales demos. A person who was 20 in 1970 is 57... and out of the sales demos.

I'm 47. I grew up with Sixties AM radio, the true golden age of Top 40.

You were then a pre-teen at the time. In general, persons in their 40's are more attracted to 70's music and not 60's... you are an exception. Face it.

This music endures, despite naysayers like you. Amazingly, much of it has found its way into television commercials, and folks from all demos still buy stuff. This music is well recognized by kids in their teens, for crying out loud.

The music endures, and people in their mid to late 50's and beyond like it. However, there is nearly no ad revenue fo 55+. It does not matter how much you make, what you buy, what is in your bank account... if you are over 55, very few advertisers use radio to reach that demo. Definitely not enough to make money doing a 55+ format.

One of the reason terrestrial radio is faltering is its failure to program a broad spectrum of formats. Cheap, er Clear Channel is feeling the fallout of being a homogenized radio company, as is CBS. I say BRAVO to CBS for restoring K-Rock to NYC (Eduardo: It'll fail, it doesn't appeal to slightly post pubescent females).

The format is in the 18 to 54 year old sales demos. If it gets ratings, it will do well. If it does not, it won't.

It'd be great to see an updated CBS-FM return, with only the gems of the fifties (let's call them Gold Nuggets, or something similar), a solid 60's rotation, and a blend of the 70's and 80's, consistent with the format...along with personalities to present the music. Doesn't have to be Dan Ingram, or any of the old guys, just people with personality.

The only gold format based on pop (not country, or r&b or whatever) that will work for a prolonged period is 70's based, with very few late 60's songs and some early 80's. Early 60's and 50's is a kiss of death to station demos and to revenue.

There's this little station on the central Jersey shore, known as the Breeze (99.7 WBHX Tuckerton/107.1 WWZY Long Branch; both class A's) that format heavily with 60's music, presented by jocks with personality. Disproving your theory, sir, the combo is pulling very good numbers.

The station bills itself as soft AC, not oldies. WBHX has no ratings at all, although the other does well in Monmouth... quite well for a Class A FM in fact.

I feel that you, and people like you, are why terrestrial radio is dying a painful death. Honestly, most listeners don't care what you think. We just want radio that is fun to listen to.

That is what the group I am with does... more live personality than probably any other major group in the country.
 
It's not IF but WHEN the format will flip

The story from Crain's New York Business got posted today to Fark (entertainment page).

Speaking of the upcoming flip, let's keep all posts about CBS-FM on this thread. Starting a new thread for every little development is a waste of bandwidth and a waste of time.
 
My thanks to the many posters and viewers of this thread and to Radio-Info.com for the opportunity to present, for a change, a little "good news" for all to see and participate.

Thanks to Jim Carnegie and the Radio/TV Business Report (RBR) for getting this snowball to roll and to other boards, newspapers, media and industry trades who either visited this board for "the news" as posted first in order to get the word out or who also did their homework in order to, in the words of Frank Sinatra, "Start spreading the news..."

The Daily News front/back page is awesome today for radio fans anywhere!

This has been a real joy to watch and be a part with you and the radio community sure runs deep here and elsewhere.

Special thanks to those who urged and encouraged the stepping out on a limb on this one.

CBS Radio and Dan Mason ... the ball is in your court, now, for sure. Make it happen for the good people of New York.

Finally, thanks for the discussion. There are many bright minds here and elsewhere who have been students of such news for years, including some very influential people, as well as those of us (after many years, in this case) still learning.

Hope what happens goes the way you'd most like it to go ... and as a "fan" of WCBS-FM in whatever new form, best wishes!

Again, thanks for your part in making your views known and felt.
 
On the coming flip

The NY Daily News is citing Radio Business Report but not Crain's. RBR is aimed at the industry and is subscription-required; Crain's covers all of business and posted its own story as a free link. (Daily News back page today highlighted last night's Yankee game.)

The Newark Star-Ledger did a [EDIT] job with its own story, saying only that "Rumors are swirling on Internet message boards". Relying on rumor is not reporting news, it's spreading gossip. Especially when the writer of that story didn't bother to contact CBS Radio corporate for comment.


[EDIT-profanity]
 
Not to be a downer at this love-fest, but I imagine that the longtime legends like Cousin Brucie won't be part of the new (and now for half the price) CBS-fm.
 
Just a passing nasty comment to all those salespeople who claim you can't get any agency buys by trying to seel the over 50 demo. Wrong.

If you can deliver to a client tens of thousands of interested listeners for his/her 30 second spot they will stand up and pay attention.

Unfortunately MANY (not all) agency reps don't know radio from rocks.

I recall a number of years ago a rep telling an advertiser not to advertise on my show but instead to go to the classic rock station down the street.

The client sold Lincoln automobiles. You know...those land arks with four wheels. Since it had been a long time client of the station I called him and just asked if he thought 20 somethings REALLY wanted to drive his cars.

He told me the agency rep had said the classic rock has more listeners then I did.

I politely suggested the audience for the very good rock station down the street was in its 20's. My audience for the talk show was in its 40s and 50s.

He fired the agency and we had him back in 3 days.

Good salespeople can sell. Average ones wait for the agency to call.

WCBS-FM will be a "hit" again if they bring back some great talent (Dan Ingram where are you now?) tweak the music, promote the living daylights out of it and get some salespeople who sell and don't sit.

Okay....I've said enough. Hopefully not too much.
 
DavidEduardo said:
The only gold format based on pop (not country, or r&b or whatever) that will work for a prolonged period is 70's based, with very few late 60's songs and some early 80's. Early 60's and 50's is a kiss of death to station demos and to revenue.

We have been spinning All 70's on KEOM for almost a dozen years now. From my vantage point, all the true oldiees stations that are just now putting emphasis on the 70's, missed the boat.

The time is ripe for a 70's and 80's only station, with nothing before 1970 and nothing after 1989. Maybe even very little after 1986. 80's has appeal to those who are in their 30's and 40's today.

R
 
Robert Bass said:
DavidEduardo said:
The only gold format based on pop (not country, or r&b or whatever) that will work for a prolonged period is 70's based, with very few late 60's songs and some early 80's. Early 60's and 50's is a kiss of death to station demos and to revenue.

We have been spinning All 70's on KEOM for almost a dozen years now. From my vantage point, all the true oldiees stations that are just now putting emphasis on the 70's, missed the boat.

The time is ripe for a 70's and 80's only station, with nothing before 1970 and nothing after 1989. Maybe even very little after 1986. 80's has appeal to those who are in their 30's and 40's today.

R

Here we agree 100%. See, if we post enough times, we will eventually agree on something!!!!
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom