Bulletin to watch: CBS-FM days from switching back to OLDIES!

[justareporter]

Sometimes I truly believe there are way too many "experts" in the business. We've segmented audiences and stations to the point that stations seem to play music to such a narrowcast that it might as well be for people on just one block.

Call 'em "reps" "agency reps" or just "fred"...the folks that spend so much time targeting a specific demo that uses a particular hairspray or soap it appears we seem to have forgotten it is called "broadcasting" not "narrowcasting."

Here is waht now appears to be a novel idea: pick a demo...make it a pretty inclusive one that includes men, women in a fairly wide age range. Go find some really good talent and a really good music guy/woman that understands music and knows how to lead (not manage) people. Give him/her a decent budget for promotion and marketing.

Watch the money come in.

Sounds too simple to work, but looking at the alternative it looks like we are killing the business.

But I have been wrong before and I am sure there is no shortage of people to tell me again. the real question is if I believe them.

 

[adma]

And as "targeted specifically" goes, well, it just reminds us of how, going on 30 years ago now, WKTU won the war ...

Very, very temporarily.

I said "war", not "battle".

 

[4dude]

Its good they are switching back to oldies!! (I hope 'GOLDEN OLDIES' like they were!)

 

[Element9]

Sometimes I truly believe there are way too many "experts" in the business. We've segmented audiences and stations to the point that stations seem to play music to such a narrowcast that it might as well be for people on just one block.

Isn't EVERYBODY an expert on this board? Honestly, from what I've read in this and other related threads, some of you are going to be greatly disappointed when CBS-FM comes back and doesn't play Shep and the Limelights, The Flamingos and Five Satins every hour. All great songs (I could name 100 more titles but won't) in their time, but their time yields a 65+ audience. BTW, I'm not age prejudiced, just being realistic.

Whether or not you agree with what the esteemed Mr. Eduardo or Mr. Lit has had to say, these songs will not be part of the revised WCBS-FM gameplan. A 22 year old college kid who digs "Since I Don't Have You" is a treat and welcome to listen anytime, but he's the exception, not the rule.

CBS-FM knows it has to draw on it's heritage, but expand on it to attract a substantial number of coveted 35-54's, otherwise the format will last another three years and be forced to change again.

Some died-in-the-wool Oldies fans may not believe songs like The Spinners' "I'll Be Around;" Huey Lewis' "Heart and Soul," The O'Jays' "Love Train" and "Don't Go Breakin' My Heart" by Elton & Kiki are legitimate Classics, but these are the songs of a new generation of Classic Hits listeners that "Classic Hits" WCBS-FM 101 will need to attract. Are these songs being played by other NYC stations? Yes, but presenting them and others like them in the context of WCBS-FM, a station dedicated to Classic Hits and the aura of New York is what will make the station appealing again.

You may say it's a zero-sum game, but WCBS-FM needs to bring back listeners that have drifted away to WLTW and other stations and tt needs to welcome back the listeners who prefered Classic Hits-Oldies. Sounds simple, but it's not easy.

As to the hard core Oldies fanatics? They've left the building and won't be back because they're dissatisfied (or jaded, like the guys who demand to hear the MC5 or the Fugs from Classic Rock stations... sorry, it ain't gonna happen) with anything that's not Del Shannon or Dion (admittedly, two great acts.)

I hope the WCBS-FM format change becomes a reality.

Otherwise, it's nothing more than a hoax and you may just as well Q-up "Cruel Summer" or "Cruel To be Kind." For the 60+ demo, roll "Don't Be Cruel."

-9-

 

[adma]

You may say it's a zero-sum game, but WCBS-FM needs to bring back listeners that have drifted away to WLTW and other stations and tt needs to welcome back the listeners who prefered Classic Hits-Oldies. Sounds simple, but it's not easy.

As to the hard core Oldies fanatics? They've left the building and won't be back because they're dissatisfied (or jaded, like the guys who demand to hear the MC5 or the Fugs from Classic Rock stations... sorry, it ain't gonna happen) with anything that's not Del Shannon or Dion (admittedly, two great acts.)

*But*, with a little bit of Starbucks-era clever visioning, maybe you can at least earn their trust--well, maybe not so much the reactionary end of the oldies crowd; but certainly with an enlightened MC5/Fugs element, of all things. (Think in terms of Howard Stern as an anti-Jack oldies radio fan/supporter.)

Remember that a *very* big problem w/oldies t/w the end, with the reduced playlists and gravity shift away from 50s/into 80s, is that it generated the kind of audience that'd drift to WLTW *at all*. In its prime, oldies radio had a "bite" which tied it into its own classic Top 40 heritage; even when mired in all that Gary Lewis and Herman's Hermits, it was a whole universe apart from ACish blaaaah.

But again, all things considered, the brain trust to pull that off no longer exists, at least in terms of terrestrial...

 

[justareporter]

Very early in my career as a newsguy I remember working with a DJ in a medium market station who slipped a cart into the machine and then looked at me and said, "I remember when this was an original hit..now it is an oldie." That was the early 70's.

DJ Dan had talent....he could make the talk up to anything...he could probably have done a sucessful talk up to an eithnic wedding march sound interesting. Playlists change as they should. What are oldies to me are dust covered relics to people 10 years younger.

Just a passing thought that talent wins all ties....and the hope that WCBS-FM ...in some modified version of its roots...succeeds.

 

[OldiesCat]

You may say it's a zero-sum game, but WCBS-FM needs to bring back listeners that have drifted away to WLTW and other stations and tt needs to welcome back the listeners who prefered Classic Hits-Oldies. Sounds simple, but it's not easy.

As to the hard core Oldies fanatics? They've left the building and won't be back because they're dissatisfied (or jaded, like the guys who demand to hear the MC5 or the Fugs from Classic Rock stations... sorry, it ain't gonna happen) with anything that's not Del Shannon or Dion (admittedly, two great acts.)

*But*, with a little bit of Starbucks-era clever visioning, maybe you can at least earn their trust--well, maybe not so much the reactionary end of the oldies crowd; but certainly with an enlightened MC5/Fugs element, of all things. (Think in terms of Howard Stern as an anti-Jack oldies radio fan/supporter.)

Remember that a *very* big problem w/oldies t/w the end, with the reduced playlists and gravity shift away from 50s/into 80s, is that it generated the kind of audience that'd drift to WLTW *at all*. In its prime, oldies radio had a "bite" which tied it into its own classic Top 40 heritage; even when mired in all that Gary Lewis and Herman's Hermits, it was a whole universe apart from ACish blaaaah.

But again, all things considered, the brain trust to pull that off no longer exists, at least in terms of terrestrial...

All that razzle-dazzle psychobabble is nice and I'm sure it makes you feel better, but the demise of Oldies that began a couple years ago had nothing to with a single point you've made on this board.

Here's the deal: Oldies listeners were(are) aging out of the prime 25-54 selling demo; a couple of years ago, the average age of an Oldies format listener was around 60 years old and, simply put, advertisers are not using radio to target people over 50 to use their products and services. If you can generate revenue, just like any company, you won't be a viable business.

Yes, it really IS that simple. You should digest that for awhile.

 

[ceaser]

Here's an even easier solution to the 1955-1963 oldies crowdurchase sirius or xm satelitte radio,get an i-pod or an mp3 player.Or better still:build an impressive compact disc collection of all this great music.Btw i'm 40 years young,love the doo wop oldies and i guess i am one of your exceptions to the rule that only 55+ like 1955-1964 pop 40.

 

[AZJoe]

Here's an even easier solution to the 1955-1963 oldies crowdurchase sirius or xm satelitte radio,get an i-pod or an mp3 player.Or better still:build an impressive compact disc collection of all this great music.Btw i'm 40 years young,love the doo wop oldies and i guess i am one of your exceptions to the rule that only 55+ like 1955-1964 pop 40.

Many on here have been listing your suggestions about alternate ways to get their oldies fix, but radio "experts" here go on the attack and belittle XM, Sirius, internet radio and ipods over and over. They say oldies are washed up , but don't want the millions of listeners of that format to leave... can't have it both ways guys.

 

[Element9]

...All that razzle-dazzle psychobabble is nice and I'm sure it makes you feel better, but the demise of Oldies that began a couple years ago had nothing to with a single point you've made on this board... Yes, it really IS that simple. You should digest that for awhile.

Don't know if you were taking my post to task or the response to it. So let me re-state: When I say "It's simple, but it's not easy," (which by the way is a George Patton quote regarding taking an enemy's position) I mean the real work is done after the plans have been made and the format is executed. Clearly, I advocated going the Classic Hits route rather than taking an Oldies approach. The context of my post was clear on this point.

Btw i'm 40 years young,love the doo wop oldies and i guess i am one of your exceptions to the rule that only 55+ like 1955-1964 pop 40.

One of my all time personal favorites is The Skyliner's "Since I Don't Have You," a song my older sibblings dug that stuck in my head. Amazing vocals, great production and arrangement. Unfortunately, this song and songs of its genre appeal primarily to listeners 55+ or 60+... there are exceptions like you and others, but formats aren't designed to appeal to exceptions.

Nothing wrong with getting old, there isn't one of us getting younger as each day passes, but the reality is radio is an advertising medium and advertisers want youth... 25-54, 18-49. They make the ground rules, we play by them. Argue til we're blue in the face, "the customer ususally wins." It's tough pulling respectable, salable shares in those demos by playing (great) songs like "Since I Don't have You." If you want to get a buy from the NY-Conn-NJ Toyota dealers, they want to see strength and concentration in 18-49 and 25-54 territory.

-9-

 

[adma]

Here's an even easier solution to the 1955-1963 oldies crowdurchase sirius or xm satelitte radio,get an i-pod or an mp3 player.Or better still:build an impressive compact disc collection of all this great music.

Well, obviously. But a cardinal point here is that, other than the grumbly Luddite codgers who post on oldies message boards, they already *are*, and have for some time. The qualitative "upper end" has been slowly skimming off--not just 1955-63, but thereafter too.

So the "aging demo" dilemma is compounded by the fact that the audience isn't just getting older, but getting stupider. The *worst* of the old.

In a way, with Classic Hits, I guess the argument might be that it's "better" to have an audience of 40something imbeciles with Thomas Kinkade taste than an audience of 60something imbeciles with Thomas Kinkade taste; my own argument might be, why are you even targeting Thomas Kinkade taste in the first place? (Oh yeah, it's "lucrative".)

Yeah, I know it's a snob judgment; but it helps explain the dreg/remnant/medium-of-last-resort straits radio is in...and most especially to the "ad buyer" realm...

 

[lalumia]

HERE"S THE DEAL:
CBS -FM disenfranchised it's core audience when it STOPPED being an oldies/classic hits/ station, they bought into the theory of evolution, that 80's must eventually replace mid 50s-mid 60s...well, when that happens, it stops being an oldies station, which is what people of all ages wanted and supported...
80s and onward is a different mindset, it's the MTV generation from that point on, and, in case you didn't get the memo, Video Killed The Radio Star..
80s /90s fans don't buy into the 'classic hits' concept. even if you're playing chart hits from 1995 to 2005; the MTV pods will simply say, why arre you playing these old songs?
Classic/Oldies is a mindset that was built before MTV(1981) and it will never work with the Buggles and Cyndi Lauper records, cos ,quite frankly, if it were, you'd be hearing it everywhere by now...
WE WANT THE MARVELETTES!!!!

 

[lalumia]

like the guys who demand to hear the MC5 or the Fugs from Classic Rock


no way !!!!!...it's gotta be Iggy & the Stooges, The New York Dolls, and Wayne County!

 

[davideduardo]

Many on here have been listing your suggestions about alternate ways to get their oldies fix, but radio "experts" here go on the attack and belittle XM, Sirius, internet radio and ipods over and over. They say oldies are washed up , but don't want the millions of listeners of that format to leave... can't have it both ways guys.

For the moment, listeners over 55 should find alternatives to terrestrial radio if there is nothing there they like.,, such as in markets without old oldies formats. It´s no loss to radio.

 

[adma]

Nothing wrong with getting old, there isn't one of us getting younger as each day passes, but the reality is radio is an advertising medium and advertisers want youth... 25-54, 18-49. They make the ground rules, we play by them. Argue til we're blue in the face, "the customer ususally wins." It's tough pulling respectable, salable shares in those demos by playing (great) songs like "Since I Don't have You." If you want to get a buy from the NY-Conn-NJ Toyota dealers, they want to see strength and concentration in 18-49 and 25-54 territory.

But in that case, we should do what a lot of concerned radio fans/critics neglect to do; that is, if it's all about an advertising medium, then use the advertising, not the programming, as a judgment point.

Like, said "NY-Conn-NJ Toyota dealers". We know the slick slimeball stigma "car salesmen" carry, and radio brings that cliche out the best/worst, sans slick visuals and evocative mood music, etc. In our jaded era, you really have to be a "certain type" of 18-49 or 25-54 to fall for automobile hucksters, or hucksters of anything, on the radio. Even if the hucksters are technically "legit" (i.e. new rather than used car dealers).

And that's not even getting into the hucksters for various hair loss, weight loss, sexual dysfunction formulae, etc.

 

[OldiesCat]

Here's an even easier solution to the 1955-1963 oldies crowdurchase sirius or xm satelitte radio,get an i-pod or an mp3 player.Or better still:build an impressive compact disc collection of all this great music.Btw i'm 40 years young,love the doo wop oldies and i guess i am one of your exceptions to the rule that only 55+ like 1955-1964 pop 40.

Many on here have been listing your suggestions about alternate ways to get their oldies fix, but radio "experts" here go on the attack and belittle XM, Sirius, internet radio and ipods over and over. They say oldies are washed up , but don't want the millions of listeners of that format to leave... can't have it both ways guys.

Do you guys know to READ? I've never said "Oldies are washed up" or attacked/belittled XM and other choices.

I'm saying (for the hundreth time): the big reason for the Oldies format on terrestrial radio being on the skids is that THE AUDIENCE IS AGING OUT OF THE 25-54 DEMO.

Leave your nostalgic or bitter emotions out of this equation and start getting real about what IS, not some sort of conspiracy theory thinking about people hating Oldies and people over 55.

Goodness.
:-\

 

[OldiesCat]

OLDIES!

WE WANT THE MARVELETTES!!!!

Great. Good for you. Now, get your iPod loaded up or start paying for satellite radio. No full-signal FM Oldies station in a viable market will be so stupid as to go back to where Oldies used to be.

 

[Barry45RPM]

Up to four days ago all the "Geniuses" here told us to stop crying, get our Sony Walkmans out & listen to our old Cassette tapes... that Oldies was NEVER coming back to NY, much less 101.1 FM... we were undesireable, unsaleable, and unnecessary.

Well the young bucks that pulled the plug so insensitively, and cruelly in June 2005 during Fontella Bass' "Rescue Me", after systematically draining the Life Blood out of the station's veins for years, only to then declare that the Station was dying, have been fired, and told to take their empty suits out of the building. So now that Oldies IS coming back to CBS-FM, don't continue to posture like a Genius, and tell anyone that the format is going to be dissapointing to us, and that you know what Oldies Radio is... because you were wrong, and you ARE wrong. Again. YOU are killing Radio, not the Boomers.

Bill Brown, do you still remember how to get to Manhattan? We need you!

 

[rockroll0617]

OLDIES!

Man, it's really heating up in here. You guys might challenge Vegas or Phoenix
for the hottest temps. 8)

 

[OldiesCat]

Well the young bucks that pulled the plug so insensitively, and cruelly in June 2005 during Fontella Bass' "Rescue Me", after systematically draining the Life Blood out of the station's veins for years, only to then declare that the Station was dying, have been fired, and told to take their empty suits out of the building. So now that Oldies IS coming back to CBS-FM, don't continue to posture like a Genius, and tell anyone that the format is going to be dissapointing to us, and that you know what Oldies Radio is... because you were wrong, and you ARE wrong. Again. YOU are killing Radio, not the Boomers.

Barry, with all due respect, you are throwing the wrong folks under the bus. Oldies stations began disappearing when ad revenue began disappearing. You yell at those programming Oldies stations but it's the ADVERTISERS who aren't using radio to target 55+ consumers, and that's regardless of format.

And, this myth continues that just because one is a boomer they'll automatically choose Oldies as their format. Do the math, my friend- most people over 55 do not (and never have) used Oldies stations as their #1 choice. People over 55 also listen to smooth jazz, country, news/talk, soft AC, classic rock, easy listening, NPR and other choices. If your Oldies station has a 10 share 25-54 (which few do), that means a huge majority of people in your market DO NOT use Oldies as their top listening choice.

Target your venom toward major companies all over America who spend billions of dollars on consumer information (so they know what the hell they're doing with their marketing dollars) and who are directing their ad buyers and agencies NOT to target 55+ with radio. You can vent and be pissed all you like, just make sure it's aimed at the right people.