Can anyone explain why the AM band was 'hot" only from 1200-1600??

[vibe]

We are at Poland Spring ME in their "stress free zone." Two days ago I turned on the radio about 6:40 a.m. (local sunrise was 5:01 a.m). The AM dial on the Bose wave radio from 530-1190 reflected daytime conditions-no NYC's clears, fair at Best Boston on 680-850-1030 etc . But beyond 1200 on the band there was a station on just about every frequency. I got 1350 from Putnam CT, ESPN radio 1410 from Hartford,(about 200 air miles away) a station with numerous references to Rochester NY somewhere around 1270,(300+ mi) and Boston's 1510 was just booming in.
By contrast there wasn't even a sniff on Hartford CT and Rochester NY's 50 kw powerhouses on 1080 and 1180 which were strong at night.
What I THINK I experienced was skywave on the upper part of the band and daytime conditions on the lower part. About 15 min later the entire band was quiet-daytime conditions.
Conditions were misty and foggy at the time.
But I'm not sure what I experienced. Can any of the more knowledgeable radio people try and tell me what was experienced? Thanks, vibe.

 

[radioman148]

We are at Poland Spring ME in their "stress free zone." Two days ago I turned on the radio about 6:40 a.m. (local sunrise was 5:01 a.m). The AM dial on the Bose wave radio from 530-1190 reflected daytime conditions-no NYC's clears, fair at Best Boston on 680-850-1030 etc . But beyond 1200 on the band there was a station on just about every frequency. I got 1350 from Putnam CT, ESPN radio 1410 from Hartford,(about 200 air miles away) a station with numerous references to Rochester NY somewhere around 1270,(300+ mi) and Boston's 1510 was just booming in.
By contrast there wasn't even a sniff on Hartford CT and Rochester NY's 50 kw powerhouses on 1080 and 1180 which were strong at night.
What I THINK I experienced was skywave on the upper part of the band and daytime conditions on the lower part. About 15 min later the entire band was quiet-daytime conditions.
Conditions were misty and foggy at the time.
But I'm not sure what I experienced. Can any of the more knowledgeable radio people try and tell me what was experienced? Thanks, vibe.

I think you did experience upper band skywave. It was not that long after sunrise & with the misty foggy conditions that seems to be the answer.

 

[vibe]

thanks, RM-happy 7/4!

 

[radioman148]

thanks, RM-happy 7/4!

Same to you--Happy 4th!

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

Fwiw, Vibe, Rochester NY has a talk station, WHTK, on 1280.

And Rochester MN has a sports station on 1270.

 

[vibe]

thanks Steve, definitely had the Rochester NY station-numerous references to the city and surrounding towns. MN would have been something else.

 

[FreddyE1977]

yes, in early morning foggy conditions, I will frequently log low-power stations from Michigan and Indiana that are north of 1200

 

[radioman148]

Same here in Illinois. Stations that normally don't come in at mid day do come in under those conditions higher on the AM band.

 

[BRNout]

Almost certainly some freaky propagation conditions. That happens once in a while. One quick note though, WWZN Boston aims its signal northeastward and generally does come in well in Maine. Often better than it does in Worcester. So I don't know that they're indicative. The others sure are though.

On the shortwave Saturday night, I was getting aviation weather from Shannon, Ireland on 3412 kHz as strong as if it was coming from New York! My QTH was in central CT at the time. Odd weekend for propagation.

 

[vibe]

BRN: the 1510 from Boston comes in OK during the day in Poland Spring, ME but the signal was really booming in that early AM. It was truly like a local and WBZ was much,much weaker.
But then again the radio is a Bose Wave with an average AM tuner.
But I'm glad to get an explanation of what happened..

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

Great DX, Burn -- that 3412 from Ireland. Was that a first-timer? I gotta give 'em a try. The only thing I've ever heard from Ireland is my brother-in-law.

There was one morning, in the twilight back on Long Island, when top 40 WWHY Huntington WV was the loudest thing on the dial except for a few stray NYC signals. Forty-five straight minutes. Louder than 'KB, louder than 'RL, louder than WJRZ 970. Earlier that session, when it was still dark, WCOL Columbus on 1230 was atop the frequency for a one-time logging (WITH Baltimore and WNOR Norfolk usually owned 1230 in those overnight days).

* Sorry about the 1270 false alarm from Minnesota, Vibe. I didn't catch your 'NY' the first time.

 

[vibe]

No problemo-Steve-just glad to get an explanation for the unusual 9to me) hot high band.
Now MN (from Maine) on 1270 would have been real hot.

 

[BRNout]

I've heard Shannon on 3412 (on USB) frequently from NH and a couple of times from the Chicago area. However, each time they were very faint. The only strong one is usually New York.

The thing this time was that I was inside the house, the TV was on, and the signal was still very STRONG. Never, ever, heard Shannon that strong before. Rarely did I ever even get Gander, NF that strong from NH or ME. And Shannon is much, much farther. I could tell it was them immediately because of the automated female voice with a slight British accent.

It was amazing because those av weather stations don't run that much power.

 

[K4WRF]

We are at Poland Spring ME in their "stress free zone." Two days ago I turned on the radio about 6:40 a.m. (local sunrise was 5:01 a.m). The AM dial on the Bose wave radio from 530-1190 reflected daytime conditions-no NYC's clears, fair at Best Boston on 680-850-1030 etc . But beyond 1200 on the band there was a station on just about every frequency. I got 1350 from Putnam CT, ESPN radio 1410 from Hartford,(about 200 air miles away) a station with numerous references to Rochester NY somewhere around 1270,(300+ mi) and Boston's 1510 was just booming in.
By contrast there wasn't even a sniff on Hartford CT and Rochester NY's 50 kw powerhouses on 1080 and 1180 which were strong at night.
What I THINK I experienced was skywave on the upper part of the band and daytime conditions on the lower part. About 15 min later the entire band was quiet-daytime conditions.
Conditions were misty and foggy at the time.
But I'm not sure what I experienced. Can any of the more knowledgeable radio people try and tell me what was experienced? Thanks, vibe.

I don’t know about that “more knowledgeable” thing but here is my stab at it…

It is a fact that the *D* layer is somewhat porous towards the top end of the band (medium frequencies) as it charges up during the sun rise. The longer wavelengths drop out a lot sooner, the last to arrive and the first to go as that absorptive layer reacts. Nothing strange about it, just more pronounced as sun spot activity increases. Those transitions might be linear some times and other times erratic so I believe the more frequency selective conditions follow that pattern. Its depth varies quite a bit with distance and time it is thought.

As far as Fog having an impact, I don't think so...

As usual, IMHO...

 

[radioman148]

We are at Poland Spring ME in their "stress free zone." Two days ago I turned on the radio about 6:40 a.m. (local sunrise was 5:01 a.m). The AM dial on the Bose wave radio from 530-1190 reflected daytime conditions-no NYC's clears, fair at Best Boston on 680-850-1030 etc . But beyond 1200 on the band there was a station on just about every frequency. I got 1350 from Putnam CT, ESPN radio 1410 from Hartford,(about 200 air miles away) a station with numerous references to Rochester NY somewhere around 1270,(300+ mi) and Boston's 1510 was just booming in.
By contrast there wasn't even a sniff on Hartford CT and Rochester NY's 50 kw powerhouses on 1080 and 1180 which were strong at night.
What I THINK I experienced was skywave on the upper part of the band and daytime conditions on the lower part. About 15 min later the entire band was quiet-daytime conditions.
Conditions were misty and foggy at the time.
But I'm not sure what I experienced. Can any of the more knowledgeable radio people try and tell me what was experienced? Thanks, vibe.

I don’t know about that “more knowledgeable” thing but here is my stab at it…

It is a fact that the *D* layer is somewhat porous towards the top end of the band (medium frequencies) as it charges up during the sun rise. The longer wavelengths drop out a lot sooner, the last to arrive and the first to go as that absorptive layer reacts. Nothing strange about it, just more pronounced as sun spot activity increases. Those transitions might be linear some times and other times erratic so I believe the more frequency selective conditions follow that pattern. Its depth varies quite a bit with distance and time it is thought.

As far as Fog having an impact, I don't think so...

As usual, IMHO...

I know from personal experience driving in the morning after sunrise that the skip lingers longer at the top end of the AM band on a regular basis so Watt is right on.

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

On a related note, is this behavior related to why the AM dial's upper end is usually quieter than the 550 end?

Daytime DX on a portable, with the neighbors maybe having on a flourescent light or TV, becomes less noisy after maybe 900 or 1000 kHx. The bottom of the dial is a swarm of QRN but at the same time the upper end is relatively quiet.

 

[BRNout]

I know that the lower end is much more sensitive to electrical interference than the higher wavelengths. This has really been a bane to Long Wave, which can cover an incredible area with solid groundwave but is easily interfered with.

Not sure that the noise floor is related to propagation tendencies, but the higher end of the MW band is a tad bit more like SW than the low end is. Good propagation in the HF range can sneak down into MW once in a while - but will tend to favor the higher freqs. This solar cycle has been very odd, so it seems like anything can happen!!

 

[Tincap]

I've heard Shannon on 3412 (on USB) frequently from NH and a couple of times from the Chicago area. However, each time they were very faint. The only strong one is usually New York.

The thing this time was that I was inside the house, the TV was on, and the signal was still very STRONG. Never, ever, heard Shannon that strong before. Rarely did I ever even get Gander, NF that strong from NH or ME. And Shannon is much, much farther. I could tell it was them immediately because of the automated female voice with a slight British accent.

It was amazing because those av weather stations don't run that much power.

I'm picking up Shannon right now, here in eastern Ontario. The signal is really dirty, as there's quite a few thunder storms around, but it's holding steady.

It's been years since I (accidently) found Shannon Radio, thanks for jogging the memory and posting the frequency.

BG

 

[radioman148]

I've heard Shannon on 3412 (on USB) frequently from NH and a couple of times from the Chicago area. However, each time they were very faint. The only strong one is usually New York.

The thing this time was that I was inside the house, the TV was on, and the signal was still very STRONG. Never, ever, heard Shannon that strong before. Rarely did I ever even get Gander, NF that strong from NH or ME. And Shannon is much, much farther. I could tell it was them immediately because of the automated female voice with a slight British accent.

It was amazing because those av weather stations don't run that much power.

I'm picking up Shannon right now, here in eastern Ontario. The signal is really dirty, as there's quite a few thunder storms around, but it's holding steady.

It's been years since I (accidently) found Shannon Radio, thanks for jogging the memory and posting the frequency.

BG

Good catch in the summertime.

 

[pianoplayer88key]

I too notice that upper band skywave is usually more prominent than lower band around twilight/dusk and sometimes daytime. During winter midday I have routinely been able to hear KMIK 1580 Tempe, AZ and KFBK 1530 Sacramento, CA from El Cajon, CA.