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On a side note while it's great that stations are going on the air, where can a person buy a receiver or are receivers for those systems on the horizon?
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Can anyone list all the CAM D (or other non IBOC digital) stations on the air?
I suppose the strategy is similar to the one you always talk about for HD Radio. Once there are hundreds of AM stations across the nation broadcasting in CAM-D, the receivers will follow. The differences are (1) that CAM-D already works 24-hours-a-day within current rules and therefore doesn't need FCC approval, and (2) reception is also improved - not worsened - on current analog AM radios. A win-win situation!
It would be interesting to see the FMeXtra and CAM-D folks become partners for a modernized version of FM and AM IBOC. After all, the antiquated technology for the "old IBOC" approach is about a dozen years old now.
It would be interesting to see the FMeXtra and CAM-D folks become partners for a modernized version of FM and AM IBOC. After all, the antiquated technology for the "old IBOC" approach is about a dozen years old now.
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"I suppose the strategy is similar to the one you always talk about for HD Radio. Once there are hundreds of AM stations across the nation broadcasting in CAM-D, the receivers will follow. The differences are (1) that CAM-D already works 24-hours-a-day within current rules and therefore doesn't need FCC approval, and (2) reception is also improved - not worsened - on current analog AM radios. A win-win situation!
It would be interesting to see the FMeXtra and CAM-D folks become partners for a modernized version of FM and AM IBOC. After all, the antiquated technology for the "old IBOC" approach is about a dozen years old now."
To quote a friend because it's appropriate here, "Nice hatchet job", now how about answering my question? I haven't heard about any consumer radios even in developement Mr "current rules" . What good is a system of broadcasting that no one can hear. After the AM stereo debacle caused by some people I doubt you'll see any major manufacturers rushing to produce radios. All I read are big words. Where is the hardware? Produce a decent radio and I'll be out there to add it to my collection. As a consumer it seems that there's been more time spent telling everyone how horrid IBOC might be than getting those other systems radios out in the field. It's all words so far.
It would be interesting to see the FMeXtra and CAM-D folks become partners for a modernized version of FM and AM IBOC. After all, the antiquated technology for the "old IBOC" approach is about a dozen years old now."
To quote a friend because it's appropriate here, "Nice hatchet job", now how about answering my question? I haven't heard about any consumer radios even in developement Mr "current rules" . What good is a system of broadcasting that no one can hear. After the AM stereo debacle caused by some people I doubt you'll see any major manufacturers rushing to produce radios. All I read are big words. Where is the hardware? Produce a decent radio and I'll be out there to add it to my collection. As a consumer it seems that there's been more time spent telling everyone how horrid IBOC might be than getting those other systems radios out in the field. It's all words so far.
I'll see if I can answer your question IF you can first give me a satisfactory reply to a message that has gone unanswered by you or anyone else since June 27th. I'm referring to the AM interference examples. Gross interference is the fatal flaw of HD Radio. I left the following message in response to a typically personally derogatory message left by you. Your remarks are in quotes.
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From the thread: WFAN now running IBOC
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"The first part of your reply is written like a very ignorant small market wanna be."
You're completely wrong about me. Could it be possible that you are wrong about HD Radio as well? I'm in Los Angeles and first came to work at a major radio station here 30 years ago after a number of years in smaller markets.
"Wi-Fi access will be treated like a utility."
Correct. Wimax will likely be the backhaul and mobile method of delivery.
"I have nearly 30 years at the network level (which is locate in NYC)."
So we're based on opposite coasts. Be very carefull about telling ANYONE to abandon traditional radio. That is arrogance that will come back to bite all of us!
On the topic of AM HD Radio interference, here are a couple of examples of daytime HD trainwrecks happening as I write this. XTRA is a 75kw blowtorch on 690 out of Baja California that has always pulled ratings in the Los Angeles Metro with a loud and clear signal. XPRS is a similar 50kw blowtorch on 1090 that has always had a clear and powerful signal over Los Angeles. As a teenager, I first listened to Wolfman Jack on this station on a cheap transistor radio. Both stations are now completely UNLISTENABLE all day long across almost the entire metro thanks to HD interference from KSPN 710, KNX 1070 and KDIS at 1110.
Stations licensed to Beverly Hills at 1260 (KKGO), Long Beach at 1280 (KFRN) and Pasadena at 1300 (KAZN) are but a few miles away from each other. If they ever lite up HD, the interference with each other would be absolutely horrendous.
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From the thread: WFAN now running IBOC
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"The first part of your reply is written like a very ignorant small market wanna be."
You're completely wrong about me. Could it be possible that you are wrong about HD Radio as well? I'm in Los Angeles and first came to work at a major radio station here 30 years ago after a number of years in smaller markets.
"Wi-Fi access will be treated like a utility."
Correct. Wimax will likely be the backhaul and mobile method of delivery.
"I have nearly 30 years at the network level (which is locate in NYC)."
So we're based on opposite coasts. Be very carefull about telling ANYONE to abandon traditional radio. That is arrogance that will come back to bite all of us!
On the topic of AM HD Radio interference, here are a couple of examples of daytime HD trainwrecks happening as I write this. XTRA is a 75kw blowtorch on 690 out of Baja California that has always pulled ratings in the Los Angeles Metro with a loud and clear signal. XPRS is a similar 50kw blowtorch on 1090 that has always had a clear and powerful signal over Los Angeles. As a teenager, I first listened to Wolfman Jack on this station on a cheap transistor radio. Both stations are now completely UNLISTENABLE all day long across almost the entire metro thanks to HD interference from KSPN 710, KNX 1070 and KDIS at 1110.
Stations licensed to Beverly Hills at 1260 (KKGO), Long Beach at 1280 (KFRN) and Pasadena at 1300 (KAZN) are but a few miles away from each other. If they ever lite up HD, the interference with each other would be absolutely horrendous.
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The first part of your reply is written like a very ignorant small market wanna be."
You're completely wrong about me. Could it be possible that you are wrong about HD Radio as well? I'm in Los Angeles and first came to work at a major radio station here 30 years ago after a number of years in smaller markets.
"Wi-Fi access will be treated like a utility."
Correct. Wimax will likely be the backhaul and mobile method of delivery.
"I have nearly 30 years at the network level (which is locate in NYC)."
So we're based on opposite coasts. Be very carefull about telling ANYONE to abandon traditional radio. That is arrogance that will come back to bite all of us!
"You're completely wrong about me. Could it be possible that you are wrong about HD Radio as well? I'm in Los Angeles and first came to work at a major radio station here 30 years ago after a number of years in smaller markets"
That's quite a leap making the assumption that because I was wrong about your credentials I am wrong about this technology.
"On the topic of AM HD Radio interference, here are a couple of examples of daytime HD trainwrecks happening as I write this. XTRA is a 75kw blowtorch on 690 out of Baja California that has always pulled ratings in the Los Angeles Metro with a loud and clear signal. XPRS is a similar 50kw blowtorch on 1090 that has always had a clear and powerful signal over Los Angeles. As a teenager, I first listened to Wolfman Jack on this station on a cheap transistor radio. Both stations are now completely UNLISTENABLE all day long across almost the entire metro thanks to HD interference from KSPN 710, KNX 1070 and KDIS at 1110."
So, are you suggesting that because of the close spacing of stations 120 or so miles apart effecting stations in a single market, we should just forget about implimenting this technology? Could it be that just maybe some changes might have to be made to the market band plan? Historically, it's been done all over the country as radio broadcasting has evolved. By the way, with my properly working Receptor HD (with DSP) I can hear a low power (3200 watts 2 tower directional south) Connecticut station operating on 690 Khz which is about 72 miles from my home with no IBOC interference (But the signal is weak) while 50 KW WOR on 710 and 50 KW WFAN (660) are running their IBOC exciters.
"Stations licensed to Beverly Hills at 1260 (KKGO), Long Beach at 1280 (KFRN) and Pasadena at 1300 (KAZN) are but a few miles away from each other. If they ever lite up HD, the interference with each other would be absolutely horrendous"
Who is forcing them to switch to IBOC? I've never read that running IBOC will become law. From what I can see, doing a rough check stations which are 20 Khz apart are over 30 miles from each other. In my market signals from these smaller stations when received over 25 miles from the transmitter are weak to begin with. The closest two stations are about 20 miles apart and there are 40 Khz seperation. In the NY area the FCC licensed a station in Philadelphia to operate on 101.1, the same as NY's WCBS FM. It was a mistake putting 2 stations on the same frequency 98 miles away from each other.That said I repeat no one is forcing them to go IBOC and if they feel and can prove that a IBOC station is causing interference within their protected contour, file with the FCC. If on the other hand the low power station is losing some of their fringe coverage outside of their protected area, no laws are broken and that's the reality of the world we live in. look at it this way. When I was a youngster we had real clear channels. There were 2 stations on 770 at night. The 1A in NYC and a 1B in New Mexico. Today there are full time stations dotting the countryside on 770. This means that WABC no longer is afforded all the protection they once had. This is the world we live in and as I've said, the current AM band is so over crowded maybe what it needs is to be cleared out a bit. (That comment will bring out all those offended that their local full timer on 1200 Khz isn't the cause of the overpopulation on the medium waves. Well I'll tell you that after dark I remember regularly hearing WOAI. So that full timer on 1200 is preventing me from listening to WOAI. What am I to conclude? The same can be said for many other frequencies. I've heard KFI in NY, but since the Ohio station went full time, forget it, or 850 KOA or 1160 KSL or WBAP or WCCO or many other stations which I lost access to years ago. Guess what? They are offered no protection within my part of the country.)
You're completely wrong about me. Could it be possible that you are wrong about HD Radio as well? I'm in Los Angeles and first came to work at a major radio station here 30 years ago after a number of years in smaller markets.
"Wi-Fi access will be treated like a utility."
Correct. Wimax will likely be the backhaul and mobile method of delivery.
"I have nearly 30 years at the network level (which is locate in NYC)."
So we're based on opposite coasts. Be very carefull about telling ANYONE to abandon traditional radio. That is arrogance that will come back to bite all of us!
"You're completely wrong about me. Could it be possible that you are wrong about HD Radio as well? I'm in Los Angeles and first came to work at a major radio station here 30 years ago after a number of years in smaller markets"
That's quite a leap making the assumption that because I was wrong about your credentials I am wrong about this technology.
"On the topic of AM HD Radio interference, here are a couple of examples of daytime HD trainwrecks happening as I write this. XTRA is a 75kw blowtorch on 690 out of Baja California that has always pulled ratings in the Los Angeles Metro with a loud and clear signal. XPRS is a similar 50kw blowtorch on 1090 that has always had a clear and powerful signal over Los Angeles. As a teenager, I first listened to Wolfman Jack on this station on a cheap transistor radio. Both stations are now completely UNLISTENABLE all day long across almost the entire metro thanks to HD interference from KSPN 710, KNX 1070 and KDIS at 1110."
So, are you suggesting that because of the close spacing of stations 120 or so miles apart effecting stations in a single market, we should just forget about implimenting this technology? Could it be that just maybe some changes might have to be made to the market band plan? Historically, it's been done all over the country as radio broadcasting has evolved. By the way, with my properly working Receptor HD (with DSP) I can hear a low power (3200 watts 2 tower directional south) Connecticut station operating on 690 Khz which is about 72 miles from my home with no IBOC interference (But the signal is weak) while 50 KW WOR on 710 and 50 KW WFAN (660) are running their IBOC exciters.
"Stations licensed to Beverly Hills at 1260 (KKGO), Long Beach at 1280 (KFRN) and Pasadena at 1300 (KAZN) are but a few miles away from each other. If they ever lite up HD, the interference with each other would be absolutely horrendous"
Who is forcing them to switch to IBOC? I've never read that running IBOC will become law. From what I can see, doing a rough check stations which are 20 Khz apart are over 30 miles from each other. In my market signals from these smaller stations when received over 25 miles from the transmitter are weak to begin with. The closest two stations are about 20 miles apart and there are 40 Khz seperation. In the NY area the FCC licensed a station in Philadelphia to operate on 101.1, the same as NY's WCBS FM. It was a mistake putting 2 stations on the same frequency 98 miles away from each other.That said I repeat no one is forcing them to go IBOC and if they feel and can prove that a IBOC station is causing interference within their protected contour, file with the FCC. If on the other hand the low power station is losing some of their fringe coverage outside of their protected area, no laws are broken and that's the reality of the world we live in. look at it this way. When I was a youngster we had real clear channels. There were 2 stations on 770 at night. The 1A in NYC and a 1B in New Mexico. Today there are full time stations dotting the countryside on 770. This means that WABC no longer is afforded all the protection they once had. This is the world we live in and as I've said, the current AM band is so over crowded maybe what it needs is to be cleared out a bit. (That comment will bring out all those offended that their local full timer on 1200 Khz isn't the cause of the overpopulation on the medium waves. Well I'll tell you that after dark I remember regularly hearing WOAI. So that full timer on 1200 is preventing me from listening to WOAI. What am I to conclude? The same can be said for many other frequencies. I've heard KFI in NY, but since the Ohio station went full time, forget it, or 850 KOA or 1160 KSL or WBAP or WCCO or many other stations which I lost access to years ago. Guess what? They are offered no protection within my part of the country.)
"So, are you suggesting that because of the close spacing of stations 120 or so miles apart effecting stations in a single market, we should just forget about implimenting this technology?"
Affecting stations in THE NATION'S SECOND LARGEST MARKET with over ONE BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR IN ANNUAL BILLING? And affecting stations across the nation, as has been noted by numerous reports here and elsewhere? Absolutely YES!!!
The new owners of XTRA 690 (formerly operated by Clear Channel), using Clear Channel's studios in Burbank cannot even hear their new acquisition over the air during daylight hours. HD was turned on by ABC's KSPN 710 several days after the new owners took over XTRA 690 and flipped formats. If XPRS 1090 retaliates by going HD, KNX 1070 (with ratings and a news bureau in the market) will become unlistenable in San Diego.
Widespread adoption of HD is an invitation to jamming wars. Night-time implimentation of HD would also mean a national jamming war. On the other hand, minimal adoption of HD AM Radio would guarantee its failure.
"Could it be that just maybe some changes might have to be made to the market band plan?"
Who moves a 50kw AM from where to where in Southern California? You're kidding, right?
"Who is forcing them to switch to IBOC? I've never read that running IBOC will become law."
You don't really want everyone to go HD, do you? I believe you're one of the small crowd that is more interested in thinning out the herd of so-called "AM cripples". HD Radio is not even close to what was originally promised. This cannot be disputed. It is being used as a means to an end - an end that does not serve the public interest, convenience and neccessity.
Affecting stations in THE NATION'S SECOND LARGEST MARKET with over ONE BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR IN ANNUAL BILLING? And affecting stations across the nation, as has been noted by numerous reports here and elsewhere? Absolutely YES!!!
The new owners of XTRA 690 (formerly operated by Clear Channel), using Clear Channel's studios in Burbank cannot even hear their new acquisition over the air during daylight hours. HD was turned on by ABC's KSPN 710 several days after the new owners took over XTRA 690 and flipped formats. If XPRS 1090 retaliates by going HD, KNX 1070 (with ratings and a news bureau in the market) will become unlistenable in San Diego.
Widespread adoption of HD is an invitation to jamming wars. Night-time implimentation of HD would also mean a national jamming war. On the other hand, minimal adoption of HD AM Radio would guarantee its failure.
"Could it be that just maybe some changes might have to be made to the market band plan?"
Who moves a 50kw AM from where to where in Southern California? You're kidding, right?
"Who is forcing them to switch to IBOC? I've never read that running IBOC will become law."
You don't really want everyone to go HD, do you? I believe you're one of the small crowd that is more interested in thinning out the herd of so-called "AM cripples". HD Radio is not even close to what was originally promised. This cannot be disputed. It is being used as a means to an end - an end that does not serve the public interest, convenience and neccessity.
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"Affecting stations in THE NATION'S SECOND LARGEST MARKET with over ONE BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR IN ANNUAL BILLING? And affecting stations across the nation, as has been noted by numerous reports here and elsewhere? Absolutely YES!!!"
Now let me understand, the short spaced stations you mentioned bill over a billion dollars a year, or are you talking about the entire market? Will every station in LA be affected by IBOC?
"The new owners of XTRA 690 (formerly operated by Clear Channel), using Clear Channel's studios in Burbank cannot even hear their new acquisition over the air during daylight hours. HD was turned on by ABC's KSPN 710 several days after the new owners took over XTRA 690 and flipped formats. If XPRS 1090 retaliates by going HD, KNX 1070 (with ratings and a news bureau in the market) will become unlistenable in San Diego."
That's fascinating really. I lve about 25 miles from 2,50 K radio stations which are operating IBOC exciters and yet, I can still hear a low power stationon 690 from over 70 miles away without IBOC interference and yet the laws of physics affecting my reception conditions don't exist in LA? I can hear that station on 690 (The low power outlet) on both my Receptor HD and my wife's car radio (which is analogue in a Honda CRV)
"Widespread adoption of HD is an invitation to jamming wars. Night-time implimentation of HD would also mean a national jamming war. On the other hand, minimal adoption of HD AM Radio would guarantee its failure."
I guess we will find out soon enough. If nothing is done the overall audience for these AM stations will slowly die off and only a few specialty stations wll remain on the air.
"Who moves a 50kw AM from where to where in Southern California? You're kidding, right?'
I've already made my point and as long as there isn't interefernce within the stations protected contour this is a non issue.
"Who is forcing them to switch to IBOC? I've never read that running IBOC will become law."
"You don't really want everyone to go HD, do you? I believe you're one of the small crowd that is more interested in thinning out the herd of so-called "AM cripples". HD Radio is not even close to what was originally promised. This cannot be disputed. It is being used as a means to an end - an end that does not serve the public interest, convenience and neccessity."
Yes I believe the medium waves are over populated. That said, can you tell me where I have ever suggested that every station should run IBOC? These conclusions which some people jump to by making assumptions about what other people are thinking really amazes me. I will say that even though I have spent years DXing the AM band if it went away tomorrow I think I'd have no trouble going about my day in the normal manor. What I have said is that those who keep pushing for these alternate systems would do their cause worlds of good if they could point to one commercially manufactured radio capable of receiving these miracle systems. So far all I see are words and nothing more.
Now let me understand, the short spaced stations you mentioned bill over a billion dollars a year, or are you talking about the entire market? Will every station in LA be affected by IBOC?
"The new owners of XTRA 690 (formerly operated by Clear Channel), using Clear Channel's studios in Burbank cannot even hear their new acquisition over the air during daylight hours. HD was turned on by ABC's KSPN 710 several days after the new owners took over XTRA 690 and flipped formats. If XPRS 1090 retaliates by going HD, KNX 1070 (with ratings and a news bureau in the market) will become unlistenable in San Diego."
That's fascinating really. I lve about 25 miles from 2,50 K radio stations which are operating IBOC exciters and yet, I can still hear a low power stationon 690 from over 70 miles away without IBOC interference and yet the laws of physics affecting my reception conditions don't exist in LA? I can hear that station on 690 (The low power outlet) on both my Receptor HD and my wife's car radio (which is analogue in a Honda CRV)
"Widespread adoption of HD is an invitation to jamming wars. Night-time implimentation of HD would also mean a national jamming war. On the other hand, minimal adoption of HD AM Radio would guarantee its failure."
I guess we will find out soon enough. If nothing is done the overall audience for these AM stations will slowly die off and only a few specialty stations wll remain on the air.
"Who moves a 50kw AM from where to where in Southern California? You're kidding, right?'
I've already made my point and as long as there isn't interefernce within the stations protected contour this is a non issue.
"Who is forcing them to switch to IBOC? I've never read that running IBOC will become law."
"You don't really want everyone to go HD, do you? I believe you're one of the small crowd that is more interested in thinning out the herd of so-called "AM cripples". HD Radio is not even close to what was originally promised. This cannot be disputed. It is being used as a means to an end - an end that does not serve the public interest, convenience and neccessity."
Yes I believe the medium waves are over populated. That said, can you tell me where I have ever suggested that every station should run IBOC? These conclusions which some people jump to by making assumptions about what other people are thinking really amazes me. I will say that even though I have spent years DXing the AM band if it went away tomorrow I think I'd have no trouble going about my day in the normal manor. What I have said is that those who keep pushing for these alternate systems would do their cause worlds of good if they could point to one commercially manufactured radio capable of receiving these miracle systems. So far all I see are words and nothing more.
"Now let me understand, the short spaced stations you mentioned bill over a billion dollars a year, or are you talking about the entire market? Will every station in LA be affected by IBOC?"
I assumed you knew that it is one-billion-dollars-plus for the Los Angeles market each year now. Spain's multinational media conglomerate Grupo Prisa purchased the "rights to operate" XTRA AM 690 for $28 million. The 75kw station is worth many times that figure if the owners would ever sell it. HD stomps all over it within most of the Los Angeles metro as I've said before.
"That's fascinating really. I lve about 25 miles from 2,50 K radio stations which are operating IBOC exciters and yet, I can still hear a low power stationon 690 from over 70 miles away without IBOC interference and yet the laws of physics affecting my reception conditions don't exist in LA? I can hear that station on 690 (The low power outlet) on both my Receptor HD and my wife's car radio (which is analogue in a Honda CRV)"
I know ground conductivity really sucks in parts of the New York metro. Long Island and some other areas are especially bad. AM signals, including HD ones, generally travel further here. The nearby ocean water conductivity helps (and potentially hurts) some stations a great deal. Clearly audible analog HD interference from a 50kw AM station here has an average radius of roughly 25 to 30 miles from the offending transmitter site. That can equal an area of interference stretching a total of 50 to 60 miles. In some directions, it's much further. In cases where there are two offenders, the area of interference includes distances from two 50 kw AM transmitters. AM station facilities here are not clustered in a common vicinity to each other. The hissing of the 5kw KOGO 600 HD signal in San Diego can actually be heard easily in Los Angeles on top of a Baja California AMer at 620 - all thanks to the Pacific Ocean. Would you like me to point out more examples of gross HD interference in Southern California. Do you want me to also include the San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose metro? The number one station 12+ in that market for more than 20 years now continues to be an AM station - KGO 810. I spent an hour today chatting with a former high-ranking KGO employee about what makes that station so vibrant and successful Arbitron after Arbitron after Arbitron. And their listeners aren't a bunch of old fogies!
I assumed you knew that it is one-billion-dollars-plus for the Los Angeles market each year now. Spain's multinational media conglomerate Grupo Prisa purchased the "rights to operate" XTRA AM 690 for $28 million. The 75kw station is worth many times that figure if the owners would ever sell it. HD stomps all over it within most of the Los Angeles metro as I've said before.
"That's fascinating really. I lve about 25 miles from 2,50 K radio stations which are operating IBOC exciters and yet, I can still hear a low power stationon 690 from over 70 miles away without IBOC interference and yet the laws of physics affecting my reception conditions don't exist in LA? I can hear that station on 690 (The low power outlet) on both my Receptor HD and my wife's car radio (which is analogue in a Honda CRV)"
I know ground conductivity really sucks in parts of the New York metro. Long Island and some other areas are especially bad. AM signals, including HD ones, generally travel further here. The nearby ocean water conductivity helps (and potentially hurts) some stations a great deal. Clearly audible analog HD interference from a 50kw AM station here has an average radius of roughly 25 to 30 miles from the offending transmitter site. That can equal an area of interference stretching a total of 50 to 60 miles. In some directions, it's much further. In cases where there are two offenders, the area of interference includes distances from two 50 kw AM transmitters. AM station facilities here are not clustered in a common vicinity to each other. The hissing of the 5kw KOGO 600 HD signal in San Diego can actually be heard easily in Los Angeles on top of a Baja California AMer at 620 - all thanks to the Pacific Ocean. Would you like me to point out more examples of gross HD interference in Southern California. Do you want me to also include the San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose metro? The number one station 12+ in that market for more than 20 years now continues to be an AM station - KGO 810. I spent an hour today chatting with a former high-ranking KGO employee about what makes that station so vibrant and successful Arbitron after Arbitron after Arbitron. And their listeners aren't a bunch of old fogies!
I am glad that so many others are coming around to admitting HD Radio causes damaging adjacent channel interference (on both AM and FM), and that the current channel assignments are incompatable with adjacent channel digital broadcasting such as the iBiquity system. Finally, many more are getting my point.
As far as the huge rush toward getting final approval for the iBiquity HD Radio system, IT IS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT TO GET IT RIGHT, THEN GET IT QUICK! Especially when you are asking North Americans to replace over 1 billion radios with expensive new ones. Any system that is adopted will be one we will have to live with (and possibly regret) virtually forever.
HD Radio should not be approved. Other, more compatible digital broadcasting systems should be evaluated.
As far as the huge rush toward getting final approval for the iBiquity HD Radio system, IT IS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT TO GET IT RIGHT, THEN GET IT QUICK! Especially when you are asking North Americans to replace over 1 billion radios with expensive new ones. Any system that is adopted will be one we will have to live with (and possibly regret) virtually forever.
HD Radio should not be approved. Other, more compatible digital broadcasting systems should be evaluated.
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Hey Supercaster HD IBOC radio is coming more stations are turning their exciters on every day. Live with it. 
Re: Can anyone list all the CAM D (or other non IBOC digital) stations on the ai
Just wait till all those fancy move in rimshots lose the signal in the bigger market they are aiming for.....Its already happening in many places. These are the FM's that will get hurt. Since FM radios dont "Hear" Amplitude modulation or static any AM noise, the IBOC noise will just mute the receiver and really curtail the service area of these stations. I cant wait for the first lawsuit to be filed.
Just wait till all those fancy move in rimshots lose the signal in the bigger market they are aiming for.....Its already happening in many places. These are the FM's that will get hurt. Since FM radios dont "Hear" Amplitude modulation or static any AM noise, the IBOC noise will just mute the receiver and really curtail the service area of these stations. I cant wait for the first lawsuit to be filed.
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If no laws are broken, what are you going to sue for? You going to go to court and complain that your station heard in areas which are beyong its protected zone any longer? That station would be laughed out of court faster than Mr Fair & Ballanced, Bill O'Reilly.
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Y'know what? So far no one has answered my question concerning Cam D or any of those competing systems. Where can I buy one of those radios to take advantage of their superior technology? Hey, I have an idea, how about an anti IBOC board? That way those who can't stand this technology can rant and those who see a future in it can discuss what's happening technologicallly instead of spending hours arguing the same points over and over. It's obvious there are those who will never accept it and we know that. Let those people use up your bandwidth elsewhere instead of clogging this board with the same anti IBOC comments. I mean, if there was a new agument fine, but how many times can we read about the IBOC bogie man? Why not just change the name of this board to the anti IBOC board so that those of us who are interested in discussing what is occuring with IBOC and talking our experiences can do so without the same small group arguing over and over that they know that there are huge numbers of people and stations who will be negatively effected. Although, if another board is created I might miss hearing for the 1,000th time that NYC isn't the center of the universe. Y'see, I need to be reminded of that every so often. Gee, I hope we're still part of the USA.
Honest answer to a fair question:
I've done a little research and found exactly one station offering the CAM-D system: KDYL-AM 1060 in Salt Lake City, Utah.
See their website for more information: http://www.kdylam.com/
To my knowledge, there are no receivers on the market to pick up this system.
You have a right to be somewhat annoyed by the endless complaints about IBOC on this board. The term HD Radio is specific to Ibiquity's digital system. However, I think this board should be open to discuss all IBOC digital systems.
From what I've read, Ibiquity has the best FM system and Mr. Kahn's CAMD system is best for AM radio.
I've done a little research and found exactly one station offering the CAM-D system: KDYL-AM 1060 in Salt Lake City, Utah.
See their website for more information: http://www.kdylam.com/
To my knowledge, there are no receivers on the market to pick up this system.
You have a right to be somewhat annoyed by the endless complaints about IBOC on this board. The term HD Radio is specific to Ibiquity's digital system. However, I think this board should be open to discuss all IBOC digital systems.
From what I've read, Ibiquity has the best FM system and Mr. Kahn's CAMD system is best for AM radio.
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autopaint-1
Guest
"From what I've read, Ibiquity has the best FM system and Mr. Kahn's CAMD system is best for AM radio."
That may be the case. I only wish I could purchase a radio which would receive Cam-D. The only demos I've heard are from wav files supposedly recorded off the air. Unless I can purchase a radio which will decode Cam-D, it's all talk in my book. I'd be thrilled if a compatible digital system were created to make AM sound like FM and be totally invisible for those listening to analogue radios. Where are the radios?
That may be the case. I only wish I could purchase a radio which would receive Cam-D. The only demos I've heard are from wav files supposedly recorded off the air. Unless I can purchase a radio which will decode Cam-D, it's all talk in my book. I'd be thrilled if a compatible digital system were created to make AM sound like FM and be totally invisible for those listening to analogue radios. Where are the radios?
"I'd be thrilled if a compatible digital system were created to make AM sound like FM and be totally invisible for those listening to analogue radios. "
I really hope that you truly meant what you wrote. I think all of us here would like to see such a thing happen. A think a little bit of patience could go a long way to actually see and hear that solution in action, a solution that could really give AM a chance to survive and maybe even thrive.
I really hope that you truly meant what you wrote. I think all of us here would like to see such a thing happen. A think a little bit of patience could go a long way to actually see and hear that solution in action, a solution that could really give AM a chance to survive and maybe even thrive.
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autopaint-1
Guest
I wouldn't type it if I didn't mean it. I'm wating for this so called better system to make it's way. that said I don't want to see a part analogue part digital system, one where the analogue will never go away. It's like the old RCA needle in groove video disc. Time for us to evolve not take half steps. So until those new radios hit the market I'll just enjoy my B.A. Receptor HD.
Re: Can anyone list all the CAM D (or other non IBOC digital) stations on the ai
I remember when AM sounded every bit as good as FM with the exception of thunderstorm static. It still has the ability to sound that way. NON HD stations can still transmit 10.2 khz audio. Its the receivers that limit the sound. most car receivers are limited to about 3.5/4 khz when they start rolling off the highs. There is really no excuse for that. Same with the blending to mono on FM. Most people dont realize that they are probably listening to mono FM unless they are right under the transmitter.
I remember when AM sounded every bit as good as FM with the exception of thunderstorm static. It still has the ability to sound that way. NON HD stations can still transmit 10.2 khz audio. Its the receivers that limit the sound. most car receivers are limited to about 3.5/4 khz when they start rolling off the highs. There is really no excuse for that. Same with the blending to mono on FM. Most people dont realize that they are probably listening to mono FM unless they are right under the transmitter.
autopaint-1 said:
A true evolution would be to do with AM what the FCC has done with HDTV: give all the stations a second channel to broadcast in digital. An all-digital AM signal would probably sound much better than any of the systems we're discussing here. It certainly would be more than a "half step" as you said.
Of course engineering the allocations for second channels would be an absolute nightmare.
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