Can someone explain the In The Air Tonight effect in Dallas to me?

[Kent]

What's the point? Every time I talk about radio, it's like beating a dead horse. It's completely useless to even come on a message board and discuss any part of it, because not only is it not going to change, it's just going to get worse and worse before it finally just fizzles out completely.

Why should anything change because some of us talk about it on a message board? Radio is trying to reach a broad audience, not the handful of us who are here. Plus, these boards are mostly men. That means at least half the radio stations don't care what we like nor should they.

If a radio station does absolutely NOTHING to set itself apart, why would you continue to play the same bullsh*t and not switch formats. And yes I'm biased, but we have 6 or 7 radio stations sharing up to 75% of their playlist with another radio station, YET - we do not have ONE single radio station in market NUMBER FOUR that plays:

The reason is because the audience those stations are trying to reach says it wants to hear those songs. I get that it's frustrating. When I graduated high school, you could find country on 820, 94.9, 96.3, 99.5, and 105.3. That didn't include the surrounding stations that also played country. No matter where you were in the Metroplex, you could seemingly find three or four additional country stations on any good car radio or home stereo. I hated it, but radio, in general, wasn't trying to reach the 18 year old male at the time. So, few stations tended to play what I wanted to hear.

I could go on for days, but I posted so many to drive home the point. Every band listed above is under the 25-54 umbrella. The rock format is absolute sh*t because companies and management have bought into the same old idea that people who listen to rock music are black tee shirt wearing, pot smoking, pink haired 19 year olds. And THAT proves the point that radio, many years ago, became too safe and vanilla. EVERYTHING about EVERY radio station in DFW is vanilla. This isn't L.A. This is Dallas TEXAS - and I don't care how many people move here from California, nothing will ever change the FACT that this is a ROCK MARKET.

Going back to what I was saying before, radio has always seemed musically vanilla to me, whether in DFW or anywhere else. By definition, that's what radio is. Bad music, which is defined as any song your target audience doesn't want to hear, hurts you and loses you listeners. If half your audience loves a song while half hates it, you're probably not going to play that song because you can't afford to have half your listeners tuning out. What you don't play usually doesn't hurt you. Crowding the dial with more stations made the business more vanilla, but, as the floodgates were opening, the audience had the choice between those adventurous stations and the vanilla. It preferred the vanilla. That was the reason your heritage AM top-40 stations generally didn't translate to FM. When people found more stations playing less of what they didn't want to hear, that was where they went. What drew me to radio wasn't music. It was fun. Hearing people getting paid to act goofy and have a good time made me want to do the same thing. I was good at being a goofball, but I wasn't going to make money off of that sitting behind a desk somewhere. Maybe if I'd have known how serious and busy radio could be behind the scenes, I might've given that a few second thoughts. After all, today, I get paid sitting behind a desk. So, maybe I'm better at being serious than I realized.

 

[TheBigA]

Going back to what I was saying before, radio has always seemed musically vanilla to me, whether in DFW or anywhere else.

On the other hand, whenever a radio company takes a huge risk and does everything the complainers want, they get kicked in the teeth. For example, Hubbard's recent disaster in Seattle with the AAA format. That station was built specifically to attract an unserved adult music-lover audience that had experience with the music, the personalities, and the presentation. After a year, the best they could do was a .9. That's not much of a reward considering the investment.

The lesson from that example is that the people who want what Kramer is selling don't listen to radio, and are unlikely to change their habits just because what they want is back on the radio. As I often say, radio stations don't program to people who don't listen. We're now at a point where that older, more sophisticated rock audience no longer listens. And there is nothing that will make them change their habits, because there is no curated format that is better than your own personal favorites.

 

[Deleted member 76036]

So, I totally agree with Kramer. Radio in DFW is pretty boring. We have so much overlap nowadays, there’s no creativity and the creativity we do have seems to be done the wrong way.

The other night I had to do a double check to make sure Audacy didn’t kill off The Spot or Jack FM. They were both playing Cyndi Lauper's Time After Time and one of the stations was only 10 seconds behind the other. Meanwhile, I almost feel that Alt 103.7 will be playing James Blunt's You're Beautiful soon. They seem to be getting lighter and lighter every day. Kiss FM is using about 12 voiceover artists, including one that passed in 2019. That seems kind of weird to me. And I think Lone Star 92.5 is trying to bring back the Oldies format as I hear them playing 50 year old songs quite often. Oldies stations in 1995 weren't playing songs from 1945...

The talent pool also seems to be decreasing. 20 years ago, I think it would be somewhat hard for talent to move into DFW from a 100+ market. Nowadays, it seems like it would be easy if you could find an opening. It seems weird to me the amount of out of market voicetracking iHeart uses in market #4…

I understand radio is a business, but I think I liked it better when radio would introduce its audience to music, instead of the other way around. Radio is reactive and no longer proactive. Some of you have pointed out failed format experiments, but radio takes so little chances nowadays that you’re going to notice the failed experiments much more than if more companies actually took those chances. The failed experiments we notice are mostly in large markets, while the failed experiments happening in small markets go mostly unnoticed.

I caught this video and although this guy doesn’t seem to be a radio person, his research is spot on.

End of rant.

 

[TheBigA]

So, I totally agree with Kramer. Radio in DFW is pretty boring. We have so much overlap nowadays, there’s no creativity and the creativity we do have seems to be done the wrong way.

Interesting comment. Creativity is very subjective. Some would say the feature pieces you hear on KERA are creative. They involved original writing and performance. Conversely, I'd suggest playing recorded music, regardless of the format or genre, isn't very creative. The creativity was done by the artist and musicians in the studio. The radio station is just doing pass-through. One could argue there are creative ways to present the music, but in my opinion, nothing exceeds the original creativity in the recording studio. Just my opinion.

It seems weird to me the amount of out of market voicetracking iHeart uses in market #4…

Consider cost of living. Does it cost more to live in Dallas or Grand Rapids? That might have something to do with it.

I understand radio is a business, but I think I liked it better when radio would introduce its audience to music, instead of the other way around.

That train left the station a long time ago. As I said earlier in this thread, radio stations aren't in the music business. Having said that, some formats DO introduce new music to listeners. Country stations have that relationship to their audience, and they regularly do single and album premieres for their listeners. They also do listener appreciation shows where their listeners are treated to intimate concerts in Dallas presenting new artists.

But the entire relationship between radio & records changed completely when congress passed the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which gave artists & labels a royalty for music played on digital media. That meant artists & labels get paid when their music is played on the internet. Only writers get paid when music is played on broadcast radio.

You talk about radio taking chances, but the question is how many chances are taken by the audience. Radio is just a device. There are over 100 stations on that device, with lots of formats in multiple languages. Don't blame radio if the listener just sticks with what he knows. Thanks to the internet, we now have the benefit of seeing what people stream. You'd be surprised to know that most people stream a limited number of songs an unlimited number of times. Just like radio. People aren't as experimental as we might assume. We can see listener behavior when we play an unknown artist vs when we play a known hit. We know which one gets the better reaction. So that's just a little background on some of the topics you brought up.

 

[Kent]

The talent pool also seems to be decreasing. 20 years ago, I think it would be somewhat hard for talent to move into DFW from a 100+ market. Nowadays, it seems like it would be easy if you could find an opening. It seems weird to me the amount of out of market voicetracking iHeart uses in market #4…

Even forty years ago, moving from Wichita Falls to DFW wasn't rare. Some of the biggest jocks in the market in the 80’s and early 90’s came from there as well as smaller outlying stations in places like Granbury and Corsicana. DFW certainly got a lot of up and coming talent from the midsized markets, but small markets had a lot of great talent that didn’t miss out on the opportunity either. One of my competitors moved from my sub 200 market to 96.7 The Twister 20 years ago. For those of us who had dreams, stories like that gave us the hope to dream big.

I understand radio is a business, but I think I liked it better when radio would introduce its audience to music, instead of the other way around. Radio is reactive and no longer proactive.

I suspect, if you asked most people working in radio today, they would agree with you. Artists and labels, however, can now reach their fans and audiences directly. They no longer need radio to do that for them, or at least they don’t need it as much for that purpose. Radio also used to do a lot of the research for the labels and their artists, but they can do the bulk of that themselves, too, now.

 

[Deleted member 76036]

Interesting comment. Creativity is very subjective. Some would say the feature pieces you hear on KERA are creative.

I was referring to music stations and more so, the music selection/rotation, imaging, promotions, jocks, etc. There’s a lot of creativity that goes into all that. I remember top of the hours that used to make my hair stand up. I haven’t heard one in a long time that accomplished that and definitely not from this market.

iHeart’s CHR stations in the top 5 markets sound drastically different and it’s not just the music or personalities. Kiss FM here held the number 1 spot for quite a while and when I moved here, I thought the creativity in their imaging was lacking. Fast forward 6 years later and many of the imaging pieces that were airing when I moved here are still airing, including Chris Corley imaging, and he passed in 2019. I know CHR is in a slump right now, but I expect better from market #4. Kiss FM was the first to come to mind, but it’s not the only one in this market.

In regards to Kramer’s original post. When The Eagle was on, I enjoyed hearing modern and active rock songs from most of the artists he mentioned. However, after Russ Martin passed, the endless talk along with the classic rock they were playing made me tune out. Imaging was good, but the creative think tank seemed to be lacking. I know The Eagle would never have been #1, but I still believe it could’ve been saved with a few creative minds.

Consider cost of living. Does it cost more to live in Dallas or Grand Rapids? That might have something to do with it.

I’m curious who iHeart has that’s voice tracking from Grand Rapids? Most of the talent I hear is voice tracking from Los Angeles, Minneapolis, Austin, San Antonio and other large to major markets, where the cost of living is similar or in some instances, much higher.

Don't blame radio if the listener just sticks with what he knows.

The reason people stick with what they know, because they aren’t being introduced to anything new. The internet is doing that. It seems like everyone on this board is just like, “the internet is here and we can’t compete, so let’s not even try.” That’s basically the only point I’m trying to make with any of my posts regarding the current state of radio. I know a lot of passionate people in the industry, but it seems the flame is flickering for a lot of you.

You'd be surprised to know that most people stream a limited number of songs an unlimited number of times. Just like radio. People aren't as experimental as we might assume.

I do know that most people stream a limited number of songs an unlimited number of times. I do it myself. But you’d be surprised to know that when people find a new song that they love, that song has the potential to become one of the limited number of songs they stream an unlimited number of times.

We’re both pretty much the same age, but I guess our opinions about the state of radio and its future are quite different. I’m open to change, but I also understand that change can be good, bad or a mixture of both, I’m also incredibly passionate about this industry and although it has its flaws, I’m sure I’ll continue be passionate for another 60 years or so. And I’m sure the DFW market will be drastically different then…

 

[nalyem]

I was referring to music stations and more The reason people stick with what they know, because they aren’t being introduced to anything new. The internet is doing that. It seems like everyone on this board is just like, “the internet is here and we can’t compete, so let’s not even try.” That’s basically the only point I’m trying to make with any of my posts regarding the current state of radio. I know a lot of passionate people in the industry, but it seems the flame is flickering for a lot of you.

I do know that most people stream a limited number of songs an unlimited number of times. I do it myself. But you’d be surprised to know that when people find a new song that they love, that song has the potential to become one of the limited number of songs they stream an unlimited number of times.

Well, we in DFW do have a radio station, actually several but for this post I’ll just use one, that does introduce its audience to new artists. Sometimes playing artists on there months or years before the big commercial stations pick them up. It’s also got a well balanced playlist with the minor hits of the big artists, they play the big hits tastefully and rarely so you don’t tire of them, and have specialty shows. I’ve lost track of the number of times I’ve found a future favorite, or at least been pointed in the right direction to find a future favorite, on that station. Oh, and as a cherry on top, it’s commercial free. I don’t know how I could make it any more palatable to the public. It’s also a preset of yours: KXT.

It’s also in 27th place in the latest 6+ Nielsen numbers, barely ahead of a station we like to make fun of for pathetic numbers. It does have a passionate and dedicated small audience, though. As evidenced by this Reddit thread.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dallas/comments/1buuvqp

 

[TheBigA]

I was referring to music stations and more so, the music selection/rotation, imaging, promotions, jocks, etc. There’s a lot of creativity that goes into all that.

There can be. There's also a lot of science in it. A lot of mathematics. And a lot of business. This is someone's job. It's not playtime. Just like the artists' job is to make music. They get paid for their music. There is a strategy to what they do and how they do it. There's a lot of genre-bending going on now within the music industry. It's not accidental. And radio is part of their strategy. So you may ask yourself why is one of the top pop singers in the world making a country album right now? Why is that song being marketed to pop, country, urban, and even AAA radio? Getting back to Kramer's OP, why is Beyonce being played on a country station? Maybe one should ask someone within the music business. Because they're the ones who determine where songs are marketed. When you're talking about music on the radio, only part of that is under the control of the radio station.

The reason people stick with what they know, because they aren’t being introduced to anything new.

If they listen to classic rock or classic hits, yes you're right. That's their choice. They want to isolate themselves in a world that is locked in a moment in time. No currents. But there are lots of other stations that are required by the music industry to play a certain percentage of currents. If they don't, they get dropped by the trade charts. That's a big deal. It takes them out of the loop. So CHR plays more currents than Hot AC, who play more currents than AC. Right now, there's more of an interest in Gold than Current. That's coming from the audience. The audience in certain formats want more familiar music. This may be why pop artists are looking to market their music to other formats where the audience appears to be more open to hearing new things. And why rock music appears to be in a state of stagnation. In other words, it's not just a radio thing. If your problem with radio is the music, perhaps the problem is in the music industry.

I was at a music seminar last week, and someone in the audience asked someone in radio about artist diversity on the radio. He pointed out that radio plays the music made by record labels. So before you ask about diversity on the radio, take a look at diversity at label rosters. That might answer the question.

 

[LibertyNT]

That seems kind of weird to me. And I think Lone Star 92.5 is trying to bring back the Oldies format as I hear them playing 50 year old songs quite often. Oldies stations in 1995 weren't playing songs from 1945...

I mean it's not like Classic Rock is getting any younger 🙄.

Classic Rock is likely the only format where you can still get away with playing songs that old, the audience both young and old don't seem to mind it if not actively enjoy it. The same absolutely cannot be said about any pop based format, the next closest format would be Country but even they've largely moved to the 80s/90s.

 

[LibertyNT]

The reason is because the audience those stations are trying to reach says it wants to hear those songs. I get that it's frustrating. When I graduated high school, you could find country on 820, 94.9, 96.3, 99.5, and 105.3. That didn't include the surrounding stations that also played country. No matter where you were in the Metroplex, you could seemingly find three or four additional country stations on any good car radio or home stereo. I hated it, but radio, in general, wasn't trying to reach the 18 year old male at the time. So, few stations tended to play what I wanted to hear.

Eh it's not so much that they weren't targeting 18+ males, moreso at the time Country was the most popular genre amongst most demographics.

 

[Kramer]

How anyone in this thread can somehow defend the current state of radio is baffling, and it's indicative of the lackadaisical approach every radio company utilizes. In addition, it's even more baffling that people are defending 37 stations sharing basically the same lame format. lol.

OFF TOPIC ALERT: "The Freak" (its hard to type or say that with a straight face) is now putting up adlibs on it's Facebook page. (Mind you, the 13 minute stopsets in between them talking about what type of wine to drink while watching an exciting game of soccer.)

 

[Kramer]

Also, I'd love an argument why in a market this size, the bands I mentioned aren't being played, thus justifying a true rock format here.

Godsmack, Five Finger Death Punch, Dirty Hony, Blackstone Cherry, Pantera(!), Drowning Pool, Tool, Marilyn Manson, White Zombie, Korn, Disturbed, Shinedown, Avenged Sevenfold, Slipknot, Killswitch Engage, Limp Bizkit, Trivium, Puddle of Mudd, Staind, Three Days Grace, Lacuna Coil, Kitty, Rise Against, Saliva, Iron Maiden, Theory of a Deadman, Silverchair, Cold, Trapt, Velvet Revolver, Coal Chamber, Rammstein, Static X, Machinehead, Stone Sour, Ozzy (post 1992), Brother Caine, Greta Van Fleet, Royal Blood, Chevelle, Volbeat, The Pretty Reckless, Saint Asonia, Zakk Wylde, Ayron Jones, Bush, Bring Me The Horizon, Breaking Benjamin, Dorothy, Ghost, Papa Roach, 10 Years, Kenny Wayne Sheppard, Halestorm, Default, Sevendust, The Killers, Messer, Candlebox, Finger Eleven . . .

 

[R.D.P.]

Demographics and demand dictate what one will hear in a market.

Demographics will tell you which format will be heard the most. If said market leans Country, then expect it to be heard, on many radio stations and same holds true for any other musical style.

Demand will tell the stations what songs they want. If the demand calls for more of the classics, then expect that to be heard. Same holds true for the new tunes.

Dan <><​

 

[TheBigA]

How anyone in this thread can somehow defend the current state of radio is baffling,

How anyone who once worked in the business can completely forget everything he knew when he was on the inside is baffling.

Also, I'd love an argument why in a market this size, the bands I mentioned aren't being played, thus justifying a true rock format here.

The demographics can't support that kind of format anymore. All of the growth in Dallas has been with Hispanics, and they're not big fans of the bands you list. The #1 station in Dallas plays Mexican music. Open your eyes.

 

[R.D.P.]

Another demo that's growing in my area is Spanish. This populace has been growing like wildfire for a long time now. To meet this demand, some have decided to do Spanish programming or intend to do it once they sign on or when they can take over a station they're buying.

Dan <><​

 

[TheBigA]

Also, I'd love an argument why in a market this size, the bands I mentioned aren't being played, thus justifying a true rock format here.

I see that several of the bands you list are in fact being played on KVIL and KXT. Just an hour ago, KVIL played Puddle of Mudd.

However, as you should know, a format hole does not justify the establishment of a radio station.

 

[nalyem]

I see that several of the bands you list are in fact being played on KVIL and KXT. Just an hour ago, KVIL played Puddle of Mudd.

Not to get too into the details, but really the only bands I see on that list that KXT plays are the Killers and maybe once in a blue moon Kenny Wayne Sheppard’s “Blue on Black.” That whole list he gave is way too “abrasive” for calm, NPR scented KXT.

I don’t listen to KVIL, but I do pay attention to their all request lunches to see if they surprise me. I’ve absolutely seen people request about a quarter to half of those bands and the station does play them. I doubt any of them are played much outside of the request hour, though.

 

[LibertyNT]

I suppose now would be the time to launch Z92 on KXEZ.

 

[TheBigA]

I doubt any of them are played much outside of the request hour, though.

Radio stations aren't there to play everything. Just because an artist makes a record doesn't mean he will get airplay.

Consider Zach Bryan. Zach comes from the alternative side of country. He was nominated for a Grammy. When he comes to Dallas, he will sell out AT&T Stadium. He regularly tops the Billboard Hot Country chart. But he rarely gets played on country radio. Some alternative stations played his duet with The Lumineers. Some AC stations played his duet with Kacey Musgraves. He is very popular, but he tests poorly with the country radio demographic. Meanwhile, anything Morgan Wallen or Luke Combs does gets played.

How can this be? Radio stations play the songs that gets them the ratings they want to achieve. That's the deciding factor in what they play.

 

[Huff]

Consider Zach Bryan. Zach comes from the alternative side of country. He was nominated for a Grammy. When he comes to Dallas, he will sell out AT&T Stadium. He regularly tops the Billboard Hot Country chart. But he rarely gets played on country radio. Some alternative stations played his duet with The Lumineers. Some AC stations played his duet with Kacey Musgraves. He is very popular, but he tests poorly with the country radio demographic. Meanwhile, anything Morgan Wallen or Luke Combs does gets played. That's just how it works.

The Country stations, for example, will research a representative sample of their total audience... which is a cume near 1,000,000. Selling out AAC is around 25,000 people. Sometimes those 25,000 fans translate into a big piece of that Million, and sometimes it's just small, passionate part of that Million that doesn't translate as widely.