NBC began a Mountain Time feed in the late 80s. As of the time I was working at a CBS affiliate (we are talking the 90s), CBS and ABC were delaying by an hour locally (we did that in Indiana during the months Indiana did not observe Daylight Time). I'm told CBS allowed an extra minute of advertising per hour to defray the expense of tape delay).
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CKLW 800 Windsor, ID's in the late 60's / early 70's during its Drake format years
- Thread starter alok
- Start date
CKLW had a TOH ID in use during the mid-'60s (pre-Drake era) that went: "This is Giant Radio, CKLW-AM and -FM in Windsor, Ontario!" They also had some jingles during that time that mentioned Windsor and not Detroit: "Everyone everywhere's listening to, Radio Eight-O, Windsor."
Someone mentioned weather warnings...one reason you probably didn't hear many weather warnings on CKLW was that Environment Canada was very wary of issuing warnings, given what they considered the U.S. NWS' tendency to play Henny Penny and forecast apocalypse for storms that turned out to be nothing. When warnings did come, they were often too late, as they had to come from the Toronto EC office and often weren't issued until the weather system had passed through. This came back to haunt them on April 3, 1974, during the Super Outbreak, when a tornado destroyed the Windsor Curling Club and killed 9 people. EC had been sort of pooh-pooing the risk of any severe weather that day, so many southwestern Ontarians likely had their guard down. Radio and TV stations wouldn't have known anything was coming unless they were paying attention to U.S. reports. The first warning of any kind of the Windsor tornado was probably from CKLW-TV, which had noted tornado warnings issued in metro Detroit and broke into programming advising residents to take cover. I would imagine CKLW radio broadcast the same warning. But no warning came from Environment Canada until the twister had already done its damage. Because of their U.S. audience, CKLW radio and TV were probably in a better position than any other broadcast media in Windsor to warn their Canadian listeners, and were it not for that, Windsorites might have had no warning at all.
"The dice decree death and disagreement over seven-come-eleven, now she's in heaven..." I swear the "blood and guts" era news writers could have made a living writing rap lyrics.
It's worth pointing out that CK was a very respectable and informative, if less flashy, news operation before Byron MacGregor instituted the "blood and guts" style, and that ND Dick Smyth (famous for being the first voice on CFTR's all-news format when they switched in 1993) actually won a pretty prestigious award for the station's coverage of the July 1967 riot/rebellion. Smyth in later years said he was sort of irked that he was often given the credit (or blame) for starting the "blood and guts" style when that didn't begin until after he left for Toronto.
Someone mentioned weather warnings...one reason you probably didn't hear many weather warnings on CKLW was that Environment Canada was very wary of issuing warnings, given what they considered the U.S. NWS' tendency to play Henny Penny and forecast apocalypse for storms that turned out to be nothing. When warnings did come, they were often too late, as they had to come from the Toronto EC office and often weren't issued until the weather system had passed through. This came back to haunt them on April 3, 1974, during the Super Outbreak, when a tornado destroyed the Windsor Curling Club and killed 9 people. EC had been sort of pooh-pooing the risk of any severe weather that day, so many southwestern Ontarians likely had their guard down. Radio and TV stations wouldn't have known anything was coming unless they were paying attention to U.S. reports. The first warning of any kind of the Windsor tornado was probably from CKLW-TV, which had noted tornado warnings issued in metro Detroit and broke into programming advising residents to take cover. I would imagine CKLW radio broadcast the same warning. But no warning came from Environment Canada until the twister had already done its damage. Because of their U.S. audience, CKLW radio and TV were probably in a better position than any other broadcast media in Windsor to warn their Canadian listeners, and were it not for that, Windsorites might have had no warning at all.
"The dice decree death and disagreement over seven-come-eleven, now she's in heaven..." I swear the "blood and guts" era news writers could have made a living writing rap lyrics.
It's worth pointing out that CK was a very respectable and informative, if less flashy, news operation before Byron MacGregor instituted the "blood and guts" style, and that ND Dick Smyth (famous for being the first voice on CFTR's all-news format when they switched in 1993) actually won a pretty prestigious award for the station's coverage of the July 1967 riot/rebellion. Smyth in later years said he was sort of irked that he was often given the credit (or blame) for starting the "blood and guts" style when that didn't begin until after he left for Toronto.
Either live or on airchecks, I've not heard CKLW break into programming for weather warnings, only as part of scheduled weather and news. "Motor City weather. There's a tornado watch for southeast Michigan". Not to say it didn't happen of course. There's an aircheck of April 4, 1973 (one of the 24-hour logger tapes that's online) that reports on the aftermath in Xenia.). Did CKLW-TV even have news? (I was only in range of the AM station). Charlie O'Brien's Big8Radio.com streamed the four-hour Aircheck Factory "The CKLW Story" which came out in the 80s, and I once had a copy of this weekend. Of course there was a section on 20-20 News, with interviews with Dick Smythe and some of his newscasts including the riot coverage. Smythe arrived well before the Drake format (in 1956). I've thought there were a lot of simillarities with KHJ's J. Paul Huddleston in their respective styles. Huddleston was also at KHJ before the top 40 format (1965), working at Texas stations in the late 50s. There are stories I'll occasionally hear that beg for the Byron MacGregor 20-20 News treatment. The Michigan Republican Congressman or candidate who chased the stripper out of his house with a gun....hmmm.
Channel 9 did have local news but it was a non-factor, at least on the Detroit side. One of their few local programs with any viewership in Detroit was, not surprisingly, a tie-in with the radio station... "Swingin' Time," a sort of localized "American Bandstand" with Robin Seymour (one of Detroit's first rock 'n' roll DJs and well remembered from his time at WKMH/WKNR, he was also another of the pre-Drake guys at Radio Eight-O, who was also featured in the Aircheck Factory doc by way of an old aircheck). I believe Tom Shannon took over as host after Seymour left.
Other than that, most of the broadcast day outside of CBC programming (which included educational programs for schools similar to those on NET/PBS member stations) consisted of old movies and sitcom reruns, until it was purchased by the CBC in 1975. Channel 9 couldn't air American programs on the CBC schedule so they filled in the gaps with some CTV programs for a time (since CTV never had full-market coverage in Windsor, the closest thing being a Sarnia-based UHF repeater of Kitchener's CTV station).
During the Big 8 Reunion Show in 2002, Dick Smythe did a newscast or two in his old style. It wasn't the blood-and-guts style that everyone remembers, but it was a joy to hear. The D.C. sniper was one of the hot stories at that time and I too wondered how Byron would have handled that. HIs wife Jo-Jo Shutty-MacGregor can be heard to this day doing traffic on WWJ and WOMC, and I've heard her reports for Metro Traffic on stations as far away as Chatham, Ontario and Alpena.
I went to the festivities surrounding the Rosalie Trombley statue dedication which was a Big 8 reunion/fan fest. I was at a table with Jojo but never got to speak with her. During a brief presentation, she related to Cheech and Chong story. She was caught off-guard after doing her CKLW-FM report, switching her monitor in time to hear "JoJo, are you high"?
The AM ran lots of commercials for CKLW-TV, so that's pretty much all I know about the TV side.
In the 1960s, CKLW-TV channel 9, "an RKO General Station" was the fourth station for the Detroit market. I don't know offhand when WTVS came on to provide "educational" classroom fare, but for my childhood, in a modest house, a few miles across the river from their studio and tower, CKLW channel 9 was our "educational" outlet, since it provided a couple of children's shows that I got to watch before naptime. Without commercials.
The Friendly Giant was "our show" as kids growing up in the Detroit area. It was 15 minutes long, paired up with another quarter hour show "Chez Helene," which was a bi-lingual French and English show. Lots of puppet friends. At least it exposed us to Quebecois French. Didn't really sink in, however. But it also didn't make most of us cringe at hearing a foreign language. Especially since many of us, and certainly our neighbors, had relatives and ancestors who came from Quebec.
Many years later, while visiting a radio colleague at the CBC headquarters in Toronto, someone had just put the tiny dollhouse furniture that was used on The Friendly Giant into a window display at the entrance to the building. The host has just passed away. It was remarkable to woosh back to my tiny tot days, looking at the set thru the window. The tiny, tiny set. I can hear the harpist playing the theme of the English folk song "Early One Morning' even now. Couldn't find out if that performance was ever released commercially on a record.
Hockey Night in Canada was, and I believe still is, a big deal on both sides of the border. And channel 9 had its own Romper Room franchise for the Detroit area. Miss Flora, I believe it was. And Mister Dress-Up from Toronto with an early Fred Rogers. My brother liked the Wayne and Schuster sketch comedy show. Neighbors enjoyed the British pub music on "The Pig and Whistle," tho' my grandparents didn't appreciate it. Everybody watched, at least some of the time, local shows such as "Bill Kennedy at the Movies." I could go on about how active it was with local and gentle children's programming. For awhile, the local news was at 9pm, as they tried to figure out a competitive prime time schedule, without the American shows that CBC showed elsewhere.
It gave the call letters CKLW a lot of credibility in the market, once the radio station started to compete for Motown and top 40 audiences against Keener 13.
I feel lucky to have grown up with the Canadian element as a "normal" part of my world. Heck, we only lived a few blocks away from the border down the Detroit River. Andn used to watch freighters like the Edmund Fitzgerald pass by on the river, as a way to relax with grandpa at the park. Raised on Motown music and Vernor's Ginger Ale. Thanks for the trip down memory lane. And Riverside Drive.
Old CKLW-TV Coverage Map.
325000 watts. "The Windsor Detroit Area's most powerful Television station." But WXYZ-TV was 316000 watts. And soon after, WKBD 50 was something like 535000 watts, and they continued to say it. Plus the coverage map contours went way further than they should have. CKLW-TV's tower was only 650 feet, WXYZ-TV's was around 1000 feet. CKLW-TV 9 was nearly nonexistent in Central Genesee County. WXYZ-TV was about 15 miles closer, and came in well. Then WWTV moved to 9 in Cadillac, and CKLW-TV always had cochannel lines, even the cable company off air head end in Burton. So take it with a grain of salt.
325000 watts. "The Windsor Detroit Area's most powerful Television station." But WXYZ-TV was 316000 watts. And soon after, WKBD 50 was something like 535000 watts, and they continued to say it. Plus the coverage map contours went way further than they should have. CKLW-TV's tower was only 650 feet, WXYZ-TV's was around 1000 feet. CKLW-TV 9 was nearly nonexistent in Central Genesee County. WXYZ-TV was about 15 miles closer, and came in well. Then WWTV moved to 9 in Cadillac, and CKLW-TV always had cochannel lines, even the cable company off air head end in Burton. So take it with a grain of salt.
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Thanks so much for the very interesting history!
I just found out that CKLW-TV was no longer the Windsor Detroit Area's most powerful TV station after 1965, when WKBD-TV was licensed with 345 kW Visual. They went on saying this at least well into the 1970s. Of course, a lot of broadcasters didn't regard UHF stations as "real" TV stations in that era. Now, ironically, most stations are on UHF, though they hide it by using their former VHF Analog channel as the PSIP channel. CKLW-TV/CBET remains on Channel 9, though just 26 kW peak Directional power. As analog Channel 9, they were just 178 kW average ERP, as a directional antenna was used. Cant figure out what they protected. WSTV 9 Steubenville? WCPO 9 Cincinnati? I think they were fully spaced under the International Agreement and Domestic rules as fully spaced to WGN-TV and CFTO.
Looking at the Analog WXYZ-TV Grade A and Grade B contours, they're shown in about the same place as the CKLW-TV map above, with 325000 watts from 655 feet HAAT, in Genesee County. WXYZ-TV was 316000 watts from 1000 feet HAAT, and about 15 miles closer. Maybe they used the wrong information for CKLW-TV in the calculations? The cable head end for CKLW-TV/CBET had to be moved to near Clarkston when CBET moved further away, by about 12 miles. Sites near Clarkston at high elevation were also used as a head end for picking up Detroit Area stations off air for outstate network TV stations and cable systems. The sites were also used for intercity microwave links.
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I am interested in talking to the reunion organizer (s). How would I get in touch? Please advise.
I think this is meant for a different thread.
If you're asking about the Big 8 Reunion/fan fest a year ago, you would want to look up Charlie O' Brien. There's a Facebook page called The Big 8 CKLW. The larger event was handled by the city and sponsors.
Thanks for the ref.
Ah yes, "Chez Helene"... the show that was done in by the popularity of "Sesame Street." CBC gave it the ax in 1973 after nearly a decade and a half on the air, despite it still being very popular, so that they could insert more French language content into their version of "Sesame." The French "Sesame" inserts were how I learned to count to ten in French, though, so if you grew up in metro Detroit and could watch it on both 56 (WTVS) and 9, you'd get a little rudimentary education in both Spanish and French.
TVO (then TV Ontario) came to Windsor in the mid-'70s (UHF channel 32) and would try to pick up where "Chez Helene" left off by offering a bilingual program schedule for years, including some "beginners' French" programs like "Telefrancais." I still remember when they went to total French programming on Sundays beginning at noon, being for years the only alternative to Radio-Canada for local Francophone viewers (at least until 1986 when TVO started a French-language cable service).
"The Friendly Giant" was still on well into the '80s, as I remember watching it as a kid though I'm not sure if new episodes were still being produced or if those were reruns. It was syndicated in the U.S. on some NET/PBS stations, but I don't remember seeing it on WTVS 56. "Mr. Dressup" was also a favorite.
TVO (then TV Ontario) came to Windsor in the mid-'70s (UHF channel 32) and would try to pick up where "Chez Helene" left off by offering a bilingual program schedule for years, including some "beginners' French" programs like "Telefrancais." I still remember when they went to total French programming on Sundays beginning at noon, being for years the only alternative to Radio-Canada for local Francophone viewers (at least until 1986 when TVO started a French-language cable service).
"The Friendly Giant" was still on well into the '80s, as I remember watching it as a kid though I'm not sure if new episodes were still being produced or if those were reruns. It was syndicated in the U.S. on some NET/PBS stations, but I don't remember seeing it on WTVS 56. "Mr. Dressup" was also a favorite.
"Friendly Giant" was on WGBH Boston's schedule when I was a kid in the '60s, but my favorite part was the tune played on flute and harp at the end (I believe it was classical.) because I was much more interested in the U.S.-produced children's science program that followed, "What's New."
I believe the tune CT Listener referred to above was a harp-flute duo of the old English folk song, "Early One Morning." I asked folks at the CBC in Toronto once when I visited there if they could tell me if the Friendly Giant theme music was available on a recording (such as on the CBC Records label), but they thought it was not ever released and couldn't locate a copy for me. I do occasionally use a harp version of that tune as filler music on a program I produce, mostly for public radio in the US. While occasionally listeners write to ask about the brief filler music between segments, I have never had any mention that one. I like to think there's a few folks "of a certain age" listening on stations near the Canadian border for whom it stirs up a familiar memory from somewhere in their past.
I heard them for the first time since the 80s a few months back. Does anyone know what happened to their massive signal?
CKLW really only tries to serve Windsor, ON now, so they possibly may not be operating at full power. Also, there are now roughly 30 stations operating on 800 at Night in the US. There were no full-time stations in the US on 800 before the 1980s.