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CKLW 800 Windsor, ID's in the late 60's / early 70's during its Drake format years

A

alok

I don't recall CKLW ever IDing as being licensed to Windsor, Canada in their Drake format days, late 60's / early 70's, it was always a Drake format type ID jingle saying . . . CKLW - THE MOTOR CITY.

IN NYC (WOR-FM), SF (KFRC), LA( KHJ) the Drake stations used a similar jingle but always said New York, San Francisco or Los Angeles.

Were the ID rules in Canada different then the U.S.? I know there was a point where the Canadian gov got fed up with CKLW and told them to play more Canadian artist songs. I was, after 1970 on the west coast so I could no longer hear CKLW's skywave in NJ at night.

The only times I heard Windsor (Ontario) mentioned was in the news or if a product was only available in the U.S and not Canada, they'd say not available in Ontario during the spot. I heard this on airchecks of CKLW from that period.

Did I miss a CKLW, Windsor ID during the Drake years. Is there an aircheck around that has it? I never heard one.
 
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IIRC.....The Drake jingle ("CKLW --- The Motor City"") was just that.....at top hour, a live announcer ID'd as "CKLW, Windsor/Detroit", doing a talk-up (or talk-in) to the first hour's song.....This was AFTER Drake, I believe.....during the "Gory News" days ("Astute listeners called authorities --- then called the Big 8 news to say....there wasn't enough of the body left to pick up with a stick and a spoon....."!!:)
 
Good stuff, yes I recall the newscast with the craziness. OK on IDing, after the Drake format with Windsor / Detroit.
As I said I never heard a real ID during Drake that simply said CKLW Windsor. Even in the form of a Drake jingle, yes they could have put in Detroit to but it was always - The Motor City.
I felt that CKLW did the Drake format the best, except maybe for the newscast!

Thanks for the response.
 
alok said:
Good stuff, yes I recall the newscast with the craziness. OK on IDing, after the Drake format with Windsor / Detroit.
As I said I never heard a real ID during Drake that simply said CKLW Windsor. Even in the form of a Drake jingle, yes they could have put in Detroit to but it was always - The Motor City.
I felt that CKLW did the Drake format the best, except maybe for the newscast!

Thanks for the response.
Click to expand...
No one, including former CKLW employees, have ever been able to tell me what, if any legal ID requirements existed then or now. I don't remember any quick "CKLW Windsor" except in an aircheck of a 20-20 newscast when they had dual time checks "CKLW Windsor news time, 8:43".
Former PD Paul Drew, in an interview said that though Windsor was and is the Rose City, as long as he could find a Windsor auto plant, he could call Windsor "The Motor City" for the top hour pseudo ID.
Canadian Content requirements went into effect in 1971 for everyone, not just CKLW. CKLW was always Detroit-targeted, even when they were a Mutual affiliate, through the time it became a Windsor-oriented News/Talk station.
The "blood and guts" newscasts were after Drake. Compare Drake-era (and years before) News Director Dick Smythe to KHJ's J. Paul Huddleston from the same era and the resemblance in style is stunning.
 
gr8oldies said:
No one, including former CKLW employees, have ever been able to tell me what, if any legal ID requirements existed then or now. I don't remember any quick "CKLW Windsor" except in an aircheck of a 20-20 newscast when they had dual time checks "CKLW Windsor news time, 8:43".
Click to expand...

Here is the CRTC document giving the current requirements. I don't know what changes were made to earlier such rules (this is from 1996 and nothing newer has been issued).
 
gr8oldies said:
No one, including former CKLW employees, have ever been able to tell me what, if any legal ID requirements existed then or now. I don't remember any quick "CKLW Windsor" except in an aircheck of a 20-20 newscast when they had dual time checks "CKLW Windsor news time, 8:43".
Former PD Paul Drew, in an interview said that though Windsor was and is the Rose City, as long as he could find a Windsor auto plant, he could call Windsor "The Motor City" for the top hour pseudo ID.
Canadian Content requirements went into effect in 1971 for everyone, not just CKLW. CKLW was always Detroit-targeted, even when they were a Mutual affiliate, through the time it became a Windsor-oriented News/Talk station.
The "blood and guts" newscasts were after Drake. Compare Drake-era (and years before) News Director Dick Smythe to KHJ's J. Paul Huddleston from the same era and the resemblance in style is stunning.
Click to expand...
When I visited them in the mid 1970s, as a just out of high school radio enthusiast wanting to learn how they did things, I asked the same question to their program director. I was told, at the time anyway, Canadian requirement were just to mention the call letters near the top of the hour. No city of license had to be included. Altho' their "the Motor City" ID was stretching it a bit, as they seemed to let on.
When Michigan didn't go on Daylight time (how many years was that?), their need to keep up with it did reveal more sense of the difference for their listeners in Ontario and Ohio, who were on Daylight Saving Time. My family moved from Detroit to about a half-mile over the Ohio line in Toledo. Visitors from Detroit would constantly ask "what time is it really?" Michiganders often seemed uncomfortable when they were outside their state borders.
When Canada switched to metric temperatures, CKLW was also good at giving both Celsius and Fahrenheit temperatures, tho' I recall the forecast was always in Fahrenheit. The freeway speed limit signs on I-75 also tried to get us Yanks used to metric measurements with the speed limit listed in both mph and kph for a few years. At last within an hour or two of the Canadian border.
Come to think of it, CKLW never seemed to cut in with weather warnings, which would have been for a fairly large set of zones on both sides of the border, to over what was within their primary coverage area. Especially with the surprise storms that Lake Erie could bring on, that would have been helpful. They were often one of the only strong signals on AM that people could hear over the static of heavy thunderstorms in much of northern Ohio. Or for a long distance. Instead, on all of those CKLW air checks that pop up on You Tube, I hear their disc jockeys being really good at giving the call letters and their name every time they opened the mic.
 
Goldilocks94941 said:
When I visited them in the mid 1970s, as a just out of high school radio enthusiast wanting to learn how they did things, I asked the same question to their program director. I was told, at the time anyway, Canadian requirement were just to mention the call letters near the top of the hour. No city of license had to be included. Altho' their "the Motor City" ID was stretching it a bit, as they seemed to let on.
When Michigan didn't go on Daylight time (how many years was that?), their need to keep up with it did reveal more sense of the difference for their listeners in Ontario and Ohio, who were on Daylight Saving Time. My family moved from Detroit to about a half-mile over the Ohio line in Toledo. Visitors from Detroit would constantly ask "what time is it really?" Michiganders often seemed uncomfortable when they were outside their state borders.
When Canada switched to metric temperatures, CKLW was also good at giving both Celsius and Fahrenheit temperatures, tho' I recall the forecast was always in Fahrenheit. The freeway speed limit signs on I-75 also tried to get us Yanks used to metric measurements with the speed limit listed in both mph and kph for a few years. At last within an hour or two of the Canadian border.
Come to think of it, CKLW never seemed to cut in with weather warnings, which would have been for a fairly large set of zones on both sides of the border, to over what was within their primary coverage area. Especially with the surprise storms that Lake Erie could bring on, that would have been helpful. They were often one of the only strong signals on AM that people could hear over the static of heavy thunderstorms in much of northern Ohio. Or for a long distance. Instead, on all of those CKLW air checks that pop up on You Tube, I hear their disc jockeys being really good at giving the call letters and their name every time they opened the mic.
Click to expand...
Cool. Which Program Director would it have been? There were different occasions when Windsor and Detroit were in different time zones as far as far as Daylight Savings Time was concerned. 1967-72, and you'll hear airchecks where it's "8:00 in Windsor, 7:00 in Detroit", or "8:17, CKLW Daylight Time" which would have been Windsor time. It was just the opposite in 1974, when the U.S. went on Daylight Saving Time in January to save energy (supposedly). As much as people are screaming ("We want year-round Daylight Time") now, it was wildly unpopular then. From that January to April, it was "6:00 in Windsor, 7:00 in Detroit". I remember the switch to metric in Canada "It's 32 Celluloids" as Gary Burbank would say. The U.S. had plans to switch to metric, and radio and TV stations here were giving both fareinheit and celcius temperatures into the early 80s.
I don't remember breakins for weather warnings on CKLW other than in scheduled forecasts.
The one "across the border pirate" thing The Big 8 did was broadcast Michigan, Ontario and Ohio lottery numbers before laws were changed to allow them to be broadcast on U.S. radio and TV.
 
Goldilocks94941 said:
When Michigan didn't go on Daylight time (how many years was that?), their need to keep up with it did reveal more sense of the difference for their listeners in Ontario and Ohio, who were on Daylight Saving Time.
Click to expand...

According to this article in the Michigan Advance on a current attempt to again abandon DST, the first attempt to implement it was in 1968, two years after the Uniform Time Act was approved by Congress. That failed, but four years later a second ballot measure passed, enabling DST in the state.

BTW, you will note at the end of the article that the legislation to undo DST in Michigan has been sent to the committee where bills go to die.

gr8oldies said:
From that January to April, it was "6:00 in Windsor, 7:00 in Detroit".
Click to expand...

I briefly consulted a small station in the mid-1980s that was in Arizona but just across the border with California, with listeners on both sides, and that station had to do the same thing in the winter.
 
Things are much more lax in CA these days.

Rock 101 is CFMI and CFMI-HD1
101.1 in Vancouver
90.7 in Whistler
And everywhere else on the free Radioplayer Canada app.
Rock 101 is a Corus Radio station. Wake up with Willie in the morning and Vancouver's Greatest Hits all day long.

Note that the actual COL is New Westminster, BC, a relatively minor suburb of Vancouver. Not mentioned at all, ever.
 
I remember that some Canadian stations used just say the call letters and "Canada". It seems like CHYR said CHYR Canada and sometimes CHYR Leamington. Of course, CHU says "CHU Canada" alternating the order each minute in English and French. I think CFCO often says CFCO Chatham Kent.

I seem to remember CKLW usually saying Windsor Detroit during the 1960s. They would give the temperature in Fahrenheit in Toledo Days and Cleveland Nights. It always seemed like there was a lot of noise during pattern changes compared to other stations. I didn't know what the patterns were like then, but that was the apparent reason for the Toledo Cleveland variation.

On a little different note, does anyone remember US stations throwing in several IDs an hour during Sporadic E Openings? I remember one time that KSEL 93.7 Lubbock, TX kept saying "KSEL Lubbock" at every opportunity during one opening in Michigan. It went on for an hour or so until it faded to WJFM Grand Rapids. It was in the early 1970s, and it was confusing toward the fadeout because both were airing PBP Baseball at the time, Texas Rangers (KSEL) and Detroit Tigers (WJFM).
 
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K.M. Richards said:
According to this article in the Michigan Advance on a current attempt to again abandon DST, the first attempt to implement it was in 1968, two years after the Uniform Time Act was approved by Congress. That failed, but four years later a second ballot measure passed, enabling DST in the state.

BTW, you will note at the end of the article that the legislation to undo DST in Michigan has been sent to the committee where bills go to die.



I briefly consulted a small station in the mid-1980s that was in Arizona but just across the border with California, with listeners on both sides, and that station had to do the same thing in the winter.
Click to expand...
Anyone within range of WOWO in Fort Wayne before Indiana went on Daylight Time remembers "WOWO News Time, 11:02, 12:02 in Ohio and Michigan", with dual time checks the rest of the hour. (Other Fort Wayne stations would give dual Indiana/Ohio time checks in morning drive).
I remember hearing WKVI in Knox, Indiana, which sits on the Eastern/Central line. "8:00 Central, 9:00 Eastern" with the TOH ID.
 
There was a period where Ontario had DST but Michigan was on EST or changed time to DST on a different day. They used to say they were "Two Timing CKLW".

And I do remember WOWO giving the two different times.

Note the TV networks would give program schedule times for Eastern and Central. I don't know if they did Pacific and Mountain times in the Western states.
 
K.M. Richards said:
According to this article in the Michigan Advance on a current attempt to again abandon DST, the first attempt to implement it was in 1968, two years after the Uniform Time Act was approved by Congress. That failed, but four years later a second ballot measure passed, enabling DST in the state.

BTW, you will note at the end of the article that the legislation to undo DST in Michigan has been sent to the committee where bills go to die.



I briefly consulted a small station in the mid-1980s that was in Arizona but just across the border with California, with listeners on both sides, and that station had to do the same thing in the winter.
Click to expand...
Anyone within range of WOWO in Fort Wayne before Indiana went on Daylight Time remembers "WOWO News Time, 11:02, 12:02 in Ohio and Michigan", with dual time checks the rest of the hour. (Other Fort Wayne stations would give dual Indiana/Ohio time checks in morning drive).
I remember hearing WKVI in Knox, Indiana, which sits on the Eastern/Central line. "8:00 Central, 9:00 Eastern" with the TOH ID.
 
Schroedingers Cat said:
I remember that some Canadian stations used just say the call letters and "Canada". It seems like CHYR said CHYR Canada and sometimes CHYR Leamington. Of course, CHU says "CHU Canada" alternating the order each minute in English and French. I think CFCO often says CFCO Chatham Kent.

I seem to remember CKLW usually saying Windsor Detroit during the 1960s. They would give the temperature in Fahrenheit in Toledo Days and Cleveland Nights. It always seemed like there was a lot of noise during pattern changes compared to other stations. I didn't know what the patterns were like then, but that was the apparent reason for the Toledo Cleveland variation.

On a little different note, does anyone remember US stations throwing in several IDs an hour during Sporadic E Openings? I remember one time that KSEL 93.7 Lubbock, TX kept saying "KSEL Lubbock" at every opportunity during one opening in Michigan. It went on for an hour or so until it faded to WJFM Grand Rapids. It was in the early 1970s, and it was confusing toward the fadeout because both were airing PBP Baseball at the time, Texas Rangers (KSEL) and Detroit Tigers (WJFM).
Click to expand...
I don't remember that but I remember seeing VHF TV stations coming in during Es with an announcement saying "some viewers may be receiving skywave interference" or on screen graphic indicating the same thing. We're talking 60s/70s
 
Schroedingers Cat said:
There was a period where Ontario had DST but Michigan was on EST or changed time to DST on a different day. They used to say they were "Two Timing CKLW".

And I do remember WOWO giving the two different times.

Note the TV networks would give program schedule times for Eastern and Central. I don't know if they did Pacific and Mountain times in the Western states.
Click to expand...
The TV networks didn't run with shows running at 8 Mountain, 7 Pacific. Prime time was 8-11 Pacific and from what I've gathered, 7-10 Mountain. The same promos ran (8/7 Central) out west with "8" meaning 8 Eastern and Pacific, 7 Central and apparently Mountain was implied
 
gr8oldies said:
The TV networks didn't run with shows running at 8 Mountain, 7 Pacific. Prime time was 8-11 Pacific and from what I've gathered, 7-10 Mountain. The same promos ran (8/7 Central) out west with "8" meaning 8 Eastern and Pacific, 7 Central and apparently Mountain was implied
Click to expand...
FYI, re Mountain Time Zone showings for network TV shows, when I lived in Albuquerque for my first post-college radio gig, 1978-79, I found that the network TV shows aired similar to a Central time zone schedule. Apparently they recorded everything from the Eastern time zone feed and delayed them two hours.
There may have been some stations in the Mtn Time Zone that took the Pacific feed and aired things one hour later than the usual Eastern/Pacific schedule. But those were probably very small markets where they didn't have the equipment to handle all of the delays. And I think I saw one somewhere in the mountains that took it straight from the Eastern time feed and ran the primetime schedule two hours early. For small towns where people still go to bed when the sun goes down.
 
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