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Clear Channel brings the Evolution dance brand to Miami! And New York????

If Pulse could pull a decent audience with its half-assed 87.75 signal, what's to say that 103.9 can't do the same and more with better, much less directional coverage and a real FM frequency that all radios get?

They'll probably need a booster somewhere in Midtown to make it work completely.

Why put rock on it when most of that audience is outside the 60-70dBu of the 103.9 CP?
 
103.9 is owned by Cumulus though so if Clear Channel wanted to bring their Evolution brand to that frequency they'd have to buy it and Cumulus isn't selling.
As much as I hate to admit it, Evolution, if it comes to New York will be sequestered to HD2 for the moment.

...and of course there's always the internet. At the end of the day, it shouldn't really matter whether it's over the airwaves or online.
 
As a country music fan, I can understand the frustration of dance music enthusiasts not having a station. We were without one in New York for a very long time, till Nash started up in January.
But a dance station in New York, other than WKTU, seems less likely. I believe there is not one successful full time dance station anywhere in the U.S. The Evolution simulcast in Boston is on a weak signal that CC does not seem to know what to do with, and even Tony Santiago, who yearns so passionately for a dance station, has considered it to be just a sort of experiment. Dance stations that have been tried in recent years in cities such as Denver have not lasted long.
Dance fans have argued that those attempts have presented the wrong type of dance songs. That is also being said about Evolution. This reminds me of the arguments that rock fans have about what sliver of rock should be on a local modern rock station. When a genre of music is very fragmented, with listeners enjoying one subgenre and not another, it creates additional difficulties for starting a successful station, as the audience is divided. And if a dance station tries to play all the subgenres, they will not satisfy the people that are really into one or two of them, such as EDM, trance, pop dance, or dubstep.
Finally, the much lamented Pulse 87, which is often mentioned as a model of how a dance station in New York should be programmed, had very few sponsors. And most of those appeared to be barter arrangements. If Pulse's format had significant potential, and the main problems were the poor financial condition of the owner and the bottom of the dial frequency, a broadcaster would have taken it over and moved it to a better frequency.
 
Who says it has to be Evolution? Cumulus can also create a format if they really feel like it or the research supports it from the Bronx location.

103.9 is going to be a niche signal anyway, so why not make it a format that has a fiercely loyal audience?
 
That's exactly what I meant by my "evolved" statement. WFAS is more of a Bronx signal so I can't imagine any type of rock doing well considering the demographics.
 
Morpheux said:
That's exactly what I meant by my "evolved" statement. WFAS is more of a Bronx signal so I can't imagine any type of rock doing well considering the demographics.
Click to expand...

Granted, I'd love for a dance/EDM station to appear there, but even though the antenna is in the Bronx, you do have Westchester County in terms of those demographics.

Cities like Yonkers and New Rochelle would support a dance station. But once you get REAL suburban (Scarsdale, Harrison, Rye, Greenburgh, Bronxville, Hawthorne, Thornwood, Valhalla, etc.) those areas tend to favor rock or for that matter what WFAS is doing now with A/C.
 
d21ofnj said:
Did 103.9 move to the Bronx yet? Last time I was by the Armory and had a hard time picking them up.
Click to expand...

No they have not. As for the rest of this thread, it's frankly devoid of much actual radio business logic.
 
Since WFAS is ( and will be) more of a "Bronx" signal, then the signal CANNOT POSSIBLY MAKE IT ACROSS the East River, or Long Island Sound. So according to Your logic, then this "Bronx" signal must only cater to the majority demographic of the Bronx!! We all know that The Majority demographic of the Bronx, is the Anti- Rock.

Maybe WFUV will "Evolve" too LMFAO


[Another quote author=Morpheux link=topic=231002.msg2079958#msg2079958 date=1363292597]
That's exactly what I meant by my "evolved" statement. WFAS is more of a Bronx signal so I can't imagine any type of rock doing well considering the demographics.
[/quote]
 
beyond the other points about other markets hit by the frequency this thread disregards that for a long while, and still to some degree The bronx had one of the most active young live rock music scenes in the entire city.
 
Jeffrey said:
on a slightly seperate topic, 92.3 NOW has a nightly mix EDM show in the evening. I'm not a regular listener so was unaware but the scroll comes up as Club 92.3. DJ Dabhi was on last night.
http://923now.cbslocal.com/tag/dj-jay-dabhi/

92.3 is the way to go Tony. They're almost there with all the EDM. Forget Clear Channel's Evolution.
Click to expand...

Jeffrey, I couldn't agree with you more on that and I've said it often enough. Heck, even on my FB I did a "Tony's Thoughts" on that :)

Don't get me wrong, I love their presentation of CHR but at this point trying to nibble on Z-100 is pointless. Z-100 has been that heritage station. And Z-100 will NEVER go edgy because of 'KTU.

Only thing, for New York...it cannot be ALL EDM.

And to Norm Rosen....cut the sarcasm, ok?
 
Barry said:
As a country music fan, I can understand the frustration of dance music enthusiasts not having a station. We were without one in New York for a very long time, till Nash started up in January.
But a dance station in New York, other than WKTU, seems less likely. I believe there is not one successful full time dance station anywhere in the U.S. The Evolution simulcast in Boston is on a weak signal that CC does not seem to know what to do with, and even Tony Santiago, who yearns so passionately for a dance station, has considered it to be just a sort of experiment. Dance stations that have been tried in recent years in cities such as Denver have not lasted long.
Dance fans have argued that those attempts have presented the wrong type of dance songs. That is also being said about Evolution. This reminds me of the arguments that rock fans have about what sliver of rock should be on a local modern rock station. When a genre of music is very fragmented, with listeners enjoying one subgenre and not another, it creates additional difficulties for starting a successful station, as the audience is divided. And if a dance station tries to play all the subgenres, they will not satisfy the people that are really into one or two of them, such as EDM, trance, pop dance, or dubstep.
Finally, the much lamented Pulse 87, which is often mentioned as a model of how a dance station in New York should be programmed, had very few sponsors. And most of those appeared to be barter arrangements. If Pulse's format had significant potential, and the main problems were the poor financial condition of the owner and the bottom of the dial frequency, a broadcaster would have taken it over and moved it to a better frequency.
Click to expand...

Just some thoughts... EDM/dance is less of a niche format in NYC itself than country is and country is now on in NYC albeit for other reasons that it's actual potential success. EDM is all over the dial already so the natural succession would be an actual EDM format itself. Subgenres, etc. have nothing to do with the lack of an EDM format. A successful EDM station would need to have a more commercial/chr approach such as a hot country format and be EDM centric, unlike Evolution.
Pulse 87 is a fantastic example of a successful dance station. It's still online for those wondering what that means. With it's poor, unreachable to many signal, at one point it pulled in a 1.1. Mega Media had no money thus Pulse died but due to it's success, PARTY fm out on Long Island jumped in and simulcasted on 87.7 for a short while. Not sure why that agreement died but I believe it had to do with the owners of 87.7 as did the demise of Pulse itself (although 2 different owners) and not the format or it's success.
At the time of Pulse's demise, which broadcaster could've stepped up to the plate and made more money than the formats they were already airing by changing formats to dance? No one I believe, so we were left with nothing....not to mention Pulse existed before EDM so the risk was greater.
What barter agreements did Mega Media have??
I don't know that an EDM format would work nationwide, especially in markets like Denver as you mention but there's no denying that it's popularity is on the rise. Although the cost of a New York frequency is far more than those in smaller markets, thus making it more of a substantial risk, I do believe it would function here. EDM/dance is all over Europe. There's no reason it couldn't be a viable format here with exposure and especially in New York where it's exposure is already vast.

Obviously there aren't alot of viable frequency options now accept for perhaps CBS taking 92.3 in a more EDM direction which as of late it seems they're beginning to do.
 
Jeffrey said:
I don't know that an EDM format would work nationwide, especially in markets like Denver as you mention but there's no denying that it's popularity is on the rise. Although the cost of a New York frequency is far more than those in smaller markets, thus making it more of a substantial risk, I do believe it would function here. EDM/dance is all over Europe. There's no reason it couldn't be a viable format here with exposure and especially in New York where it's exposure is already vast.

Obviously there aren't alot of viable frequency options now accept for perhaps CBS taking 92.3 in a more EDM direction which as of late it seems they're beginning to do.
Click to expand...

Like I had said on the previous post before this, I don't think a full fledged EDM station could work here in New York. You have too many variables in terms of fans liking different genres of dance music here. Someone who is into Kim Sozzi will not necessarily be into Zedd. Someone into Deadmau5 will not necessarily be into Inaya Day, etc.

Pulse 87, at its very tail end, had just entered the beginnings of the EDM phenomenon here by being at the first Electric Zoo. Pulse 87 was well balanced in that sense. A station now would BE that plus the EDM aspect.

Though the one thing I'm kinda on the fence with is with freestyle. I think for the demos you're trying to get, while freestyle is FIERCELY loved by those who grew up in that first generation of it (Hot 103/97), for the younger generation (that this station would serve) that may not necessarily fly. But then again, I have heard ads for the Freestyle Explosion concert happening at Radio City Music Hall at the end of the month air on 92.3 Now. Though I've always felt that freestyle has to be "reinvented" into something new and geared to that young Latino/outer borough generation, as it did back in the 80's and 90's for me and other teen/twenty somethings then.

Regarding the barter arrangements, what Barry meant were those ads such as "Thicker is better" and basic direct response stuff where a station would earn the money based on the amount of sales of a product.

THOUGH regarding Barry's last sentence, something tells me that deeper behind the scenes stuff had happened. I'm not privvy to know what it is but I think that's what held back from other companies creating a dance station immediately Pulse/Party 87.7
 
Sorry, but EDM is more of a niche format than country, even in NYC.

Ask 100 people on the street across all demos to name 5 country artists and 5 EDM artists and which do you think will win?

EDM also doesn't have 5 different award shows every year, a channel on cable or literally hundreds of stations across the country. Even in NYC, the market as a whole, not just the city, country has a much higher profile than EDM.
 
Jeffrey's post above appears to be based on wishful thinking- Dance music is huge in Europe, so it should succeed as a full time format on American radio. By that line of reasoning, professional soccer should be a roaring success here.
Stadium soccer and dance radio have been tried in this country on several occasions, and not done well commercially.
Neither that post, or Tony's above, addressed the point I made that though there have been a few attempts, there has been no successful full time dance station anywhere in the U.S., at least in recent years. If we go way way back to the disco craze of the late 70's, a few stations such as the original WKTU on 92.3 did get high ratings for a few years.
Tony appears to acknowledge one of the difficulties of programming a dance station-The fragmentation of the audience that is into different subgenres of the music.
92.3 Now, which has mediocre ratings, may have little to lose by programming more EDM at night. A number of rhythmic CHR's have done this. None to my knowledge have gone full time dance, at least since that failed attempt in Denver.
 
Here we go......

WNTIRadio said:
Sorry, but EDM is more of a niche format than country, even in NYC.
Click to expand...

And that's why I am saying a FULL FLEDGED EDM format would not work. What Evolution is doing and what Pulse does (online anyway) are TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT presentations. You can't deny the impact of EDM but for New York you have some of that along with what Pulse is done.

WNTIRadio said:
Ask 100 people on the street across all demos to name 5 country artists and 5 EDM artists and which do you think will win?
Click to expand...

Ummmm....EDM now. If you would ask this question 5 years ago, then you're right with country. But now EDM has come along.

WNTIRadio said:
EDM also doesn't have 5 different award shows every year, a channel on cable or literally hundreds of stations across the country. Even in NYC, the market as a whole, not just the city, country has a much higher profile than EDM.
Click to expand...

Look, you "hate", I get it and so does everyone else here.

Believe me, I am NOT KNOCKING country music. I'm not knocking ANY music actually. There may be genres I don't like but I'm certainly not going to bash on it since music is on the beholder of it. Having said that...the EDM phenomena is something that really took off 4 years ago in this country.

Who cares if the music doesn't have 5 award shows? The big one for us is the IDMA awards which is happening this week down in Miami. So what if it's not covered by MTV, Fuse or anyone. In our world it's kinda better that way that we're not getting that. BUT, dance/EDM has been making a bigger presence at the Grammys. I've seen Skrillex, Deadmau5, Swedish House Mafia, just to name a few walk that red carpet.....something that would NOT have happened years ago and that's because electronic music is a relatively NEW category that has been in existence for about 15 years or so.

Sure, you have country fans and God bless them all for supporting. But for the 12,634,436th time, stop knocking us. We are here and it's not just 19 of us either.

OKAY? ::)
 
Barry said:
Neither that post, or Tony's above, addressed the point I made that though there have been a few attempts, there has been no successful full time dance station anywhere in the U.S., at least in recent years. If we go way way back to the disco craze of the late 70's, a few stations such as the original WKTU on 92.3 did get high ratings for a few years.
Click to expand...

I had to go back and reread your post Barry.

We haven't had many dance stations at all in recent years (let's use 2008 as a barometer..fair to say?) But if we are going to go beyond the disco era, stations such as Hot 103/97 during its Top 40/Urban days have had successful numbers. If it wasn't for the parent company (Emmis) going through difficult times which had more to do with the Seattle Mariners than their radio properties Hot 97 may have still been dance for a while. They went for hip-hop, which while stations such as 98.7 Kiss was playing it, was never tested as a full-time format or at the very least given "center stage" with R&B. Other markets in the 80's/90's have had success with dance as well such as WPOW (Power 96) in Miami.

Because hip-hop was riding high in the cycles, a lot of stations that were dance flipped to that format...or CHR as is the case of Q-102 in Philly and B-96 in Chicago. Aside from a couple of non-comms such as C89.5 in Seattle, Super 91.7 in Wilmington, DE and Z88.9 in Pemberton, NJ (between Philly and Atlantic City), the stations that did come in few and between such as 95.3 Party in Orlando, Party 93.1 in Miami had decent listenerships.

RIGHT NOW, is a much different time then back then because of the explosive growth/turnout regarding EDM. And EDM is just one aspect of the big picture in dance music. And no, it's not an "appearance" that I'm acknowledging the quirks of programming such a format. My eyes are wide open 100% to that.

And let's be fair. What Hot 107.1 did in Denver and Pulse 87 did in New York is like comparing Bacardi 151 to Pepsi! :) That's why I'm saying that a station CANNOT BE FULL FLEDGED IN THIS...and that's because of what Denver did! They were intensive with EDM and dubstep. That's leaning the pendulum TOO HARD. And regarding dubstep, I consider that more "alternative" if anything and modern rock stations should be more on top of that...not dance/EDM.

There has to be a mix of everything. Sure, play Deadmau5, Sandro Silva, Zedd, Avicii. But play Lucas Prata, Kim Sozzi, Sophia May, Crystal Waters. And while at it, play Rihanna, Calvin Harris/Florence Welch, Pitbull, Chris Brown, Ne-Yo.

92.3 Now doesn't have to do much. Unless these artists do a dance remix, lop off the Maroon 5, Taylor Swift, Macklemore & Ryan Lewis, Bruno Mars and Lil' Wayne and add what I've mentioned. It could work.

Give me at least this......I can try my darndest to see both sides of the issue. ;)
 
Better yet...do you want to see the impact firsthand of EDM??

This weekend AND next weekend.....click below
http://ultramusicfestival.com/

Usually from 4PM Ultra TV starts up. Take a look and tell me that's not an audience you want?
 
WNTIRadio said:
Sorry, but EDM is more of a niche format than country, even in NYC.

Ask 100 people on the street across all demos to name 5 country artists and 5 EDM artists and which do you think will win?

EDM also doesn't have 5 different award shows every year, a channel on cable or literally hundreds of stations across the country. Even in NYC, the market as a whole, not just the city, country has a much higher profile than EDM.
Click to expand...

If you have to ask questions like that you're finger is definitely not on the pulse of New York.
No one is disputing country's national popularity but it's not because of New York City that there are 5 different country award shows.
 
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