Why wouldn't the newspaper cover it? "You don't want to advertise there...they're going to dissapear any minute". If I understand correctly the Connersville paper did cover it. WHIO admittedly has the news pretty tightly under wraps. Ironically, the WHIO simulcast is giving the Northern Miami Valley the best service they've had since Cox has owned them. They do get 24 hour weather bulletins when there's severe weather in the area, for example. Yes, Connersville woke up to static....then they tuned to another station. How many, other than folks who post on a board like this, have thought about it since?
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I think we've already covered the Connersville move pretty well. No need to nit pick it again. My beef was with the
policy that let it happen. I like the people at WIFE.
True. WHIO is a class act. But in a big surprise for their Piqua to Cincinnati move the FCC granted many LPFM CPs
in Cincy before they got to WHIO"s application. This means Cox must now find new channels for all the LPFMs on 95.7.
Good Luck!
The WIUX-LP case in Bloomington set the precedent for the protection of LPFM.
policy that let it happen. I like the people at WIFE.
True. WHIO is a class act. But in a big surprise for their Piqua to Cincinnati move the FCC granted many LPFM CPs
in Cincy before they got to WHIO"s application. This means Cox must now find new channels for all the LPFMs on 95.7.
Good Luck!
The WIUX-LP case in Bloomington set the precedent for the protection of LPFM.
Gr8oldies, THANK YOU for your thoughtful and eloquent response. I’ll skip to the end of your post and agree... There are no “pat answers”!
Now, let’s get into the body of you post...
WLKI is ABOVE first class – they have been – since a few men [who still work there] bought that bankrupted facility in the 70s and turned it into one of the top small market operations in this country. It defies market size, and would compete [and possibly win] in any large market. It bills SO HIGHLY that it possibly cannot be sold – what a problem to have! Tom Andrews, Bill Kerner, Carter Snider, Gary Osborne [retired], Randy Edwards, and Andy St. John are a unique convergence of very talented AND very good humanity. I can assure all that they operate stations “the next county over” with FULL ATTENTION to community service and programming perfection. This “get even” proposal would NOT be fair to them. They should NOT pay for large-market corporate radio’s misadventures. When I purchased radio stations, I hoped they could emulate WLKI – sadly they didn’t.
When TelCom 96 was passed – NO "pol" predicted that ONE company would successfully manipulate the system to the extent that they were able to acquire 1200-plus radio stations. Numerous interviews with Congressional Reps have revealed that HAD they known the consequences – they would have voted TelComn96 DOWN! Clearly [based on performance under the “new law”] – it is high-time to revisit the terms of endearment. NOBODY will argue that change is begged-for... Radio is DYING while locked in this paradigm. What is more important... CCU maintaining their poorly-operated 1200-plus radio stations [including the likes of Somerset, KY]
or a new start and a new age with those energized to make a difference. They deserve rebuke, and have run there course. The marketplace has spoken – and they are toast! Visit your broker...
You can find my views on “the Connersville situation” with a simple search here. In short—it’s atrocious!!!
You mention the courts... Well, my friend, we go to court over divorce, child custody, an employee’s disagreement with WalMart, and God knows whatever we see on cable TV – WHY NOT the mischief of corporate radio... How is that less deserving of a trial before your peers... Do you really believe “BIG RADIO” would survive such? I’m a 49-yr-old man and I don’t think so!
Now, let’s get into the body of you post...
WLKI is ABOVE first class – they have been – since a few men [who still work there] bought that bankrupted facility in the 70s and turned it into one of the top small market operations in this country. It defies market size, and would compete [and possibly win] in any large market. It bills SO HIGHLY that it possibly cannot be sold – what a problem to have! Tom Andrews, Bill Kerner, Carter Snider, Gary Osborne [retired], Randy Edwards, and Andy St. John are a unique convergence of very talented AND very good humanity. I can assure all that they operate stations “the next county over” with FULL ATTENTION to community service and programming perfection. This “get even” proposal would NOT be fair to them. They should NOT pay for large-market corporate radio’s misadventures. When I purchased radio stations, I hoped they could emulate WLKI – sadly they didn’t.
When TelCom 96 was passed – NO "pol" predicted that ONE company would successfully manipulate the system to the extent that they were able to acquire 1200-plus radio stations. Numerous interviews with Congressional Reps have revealed that HAD they known the consequences – they would have voted TelComn96 DOWN! Clearly [based on performance under the “new law”] – it is high-time to revisit the terms of endearment. NOBODY will argue that change is begged-for... Radio is DYING while locked in this paradigm. What is more important... CCU maintaining their poorly-operated 1200-plus radio stations [including the likes of Somerset, KY]
or a new start and a new age with those energized to make a difference. They deserve rebuke, and have run there course. The marketplace has spoken – and they are toast! Visit your broker...You can find my views on “the Connersville situation” with a simple search here. In short—it’s atrocious!!!
You mention the courts... Well, my friend, we go to court over divorce, child custody, an employee’s disagreement with WalMart, and God knows whatever we see on cable TV – WHY NOT the mischief of corporate radio... How is that less deserving of a trial before your peers... Do you really believe “BIG RADIO” would survive such? I’m a 49-yr-old man and I don’t think so!
...And I like the folks at SuperOldies WIFE, also!
justalurker said:
Some good points! The big guys have better lawyers! I have seen rules meant to catch the big bad boys hang some little guy instead.
The FCC once decided who should get a license grant in a hearing. At hearing lawyers made a fortune and the winner almost always
was the one who could hang in with his lawyer the longest. The other applicant was bled to death. It wasn't about who was best.
There is the case of WBAA and WBRO. Both are noncommercial stations. Both filed their license renewals at the same time.
A glitch in the electronic filing system at the FCC caused the Commission to think they had both failed to file. The FCC cancelled their station
licenses. WBAA, Purdue University had a good lawyer and everthing was soon alright. WBRO didn't have money for a lawyer.
Their license is still not granted.
I hear you!
Timewarp said:
That deal is now dead in the water. To move 1360 to where 910 is now, would require the construction of a 6-tower antenna system about six miles south from where they are now to protect 1380 in Kittanning, PA. It's more prohibitively expensive than the owners at 1360 thought it was going to be.
kenhawk1160 said:
We can understand why! An AM station costs ten times more to build than FM. Yet the only time when most people under 30 turn on AM
is when they hit the wrong button.
WGLM's conversion to a 6,000watt K Love translator maybe is good news for the commercial operaters
in Lafayette. Now all the broadcast licenses in West Lafayette are run as non-commercial.
WAZY and WKOA should be able to increase their billing by about $25,000 to $30,000 per month
each. Maybe they can hire some more jocks and a newsman or two.
in Lafayette. Now all the broadcast licenses in West Lafayette are run as non-commercial.
WAZY and WKOA should be able to increase their billing by about $25,000 to $30,000 per month
each. Maybe they can hire some more jocks and a newsman or two.
WLKI was a station I always wanted to work at (of course no one ever left!). I visited there several times in the 80s. Some of the names Hippo mentioned I still recognize.
I certainly understand that we go to court over everything. I was referencing the fact that if the FCC or Congress attempted to strip away the licences of everything Clear Channel, Cumulus, etc. knows that the court challenges would last a long time. "A trial by your peers"? If I could find 100 random people on the streets of Indy, Dayton or wherever who even know, let alone care, who owns the radio stations in town, let alone demanding that these stations go to different owners. If I was going to present the idea in my market (since we have a larger concentration of CC stations in SW Ohio than in Indianapolis), to, say, regular listeners of Lite 99.9 and say "hey we've got a drive to make Clear Channel sell Lite 99.9, are you on board?" , they'd probably ask why and if I said "they voice track and fired all of these DJs, and they don't serve Kettering exclusively" they might say "so"? A competitor of CC's Mix 107.7 have come out of the box with no DJs and is making a great run at them. I don't honestly know if I believe the marketplace has spoken...the local CC stations, WLW, etc still have plenty of listeners. Their concerts and events are still well attended. No doubt when Lite's series of Listener Appreciation Lunches are held, the venues will still be packed. If radio's dying now, was it dying any less when half of the licensed stations were losing money?
Unintended consequences was mentioned earlier. Docket 80-90 was a good example. The idea was increasing ownership and providing service to communities that didn't have their very own radio station. The consequence was the new compeitors came to town to take on the established station, drove spot rates to a dollar a holler, and sometimes made the established station dissassemble their news and air staff to keep the lights on. So, these stations eventually were brought under one umbrella for pure survival.
So if we really could get Clear Channel stripped of all of its licenses, who buys these individual stations, and most importantly, who finances them? What bank, financial institution, venture capital firm or whatever is going to take a chance on buying a radio station when the same government that stripped the previous licensee can do the same again? It's a question that has to be answered. Are we saying we want a return to 12/12/12? Two to a market? What's the winning scenario? What won't leave us with a bunch of silent or brokered stations? I'm not even sure I see Nationwide Insurance buying back WNCI in Columbus.
I have more questions than answered. I'd love to see a sensible proposal that actually is workeable. Even then, there's no guarantee all of those on-air positions would come back. The technology to automate, voice track from a basement studio, and do everything that's possible now would still exist, no matter whose name is on the deed.
By the way, everyone, congrats on a very thoughtful and informative thread. 15 pages and no flame war is pretty incredible!
I certainly understand that we go to court over everything. I was referencing the fact that if the FCC or Congress attempted to strip away the licences of everything Clear Channel, Cumulus, etc. knows that the court challenges would last a long time. "A trial by your peers"? If I could find 100 random people on the streets of Indy, Dayton or wherever who even know, let alone care, who owns the radio stations in town, let alone demanding that these stations go to different owners. If I was going to present the idea in my market (since we have a larger concentration of CC stations in SW Ohio than in Indianapolis), to, say, regular listeners of Lite 99.9 and say "hey we've got a drive to make Clear Channel sell Lite 99.9, are you on board?" , they'd probably ask why and if I said "they voice track and fired all of these DJs, and they don't serve Kettering exclusively" they might say "so"? A competitor of CC's Mix 107.7 have come out of the box with no DJs and is making a great run at them. I don't honestly know if I believe the marketplace has spoken...the local CC stations, WLW, etc still have plenty of listeners. Their concerts and events are still well attended. No doubt when Lite's series of Listener Appreciation Lunches are held, the venues will still be packed. If radio's dying now, was it dying any less when half of the licensed stations were losing money?
Unintended consequences was mentioned earlier. Docket 80-90 was a good example. The idea was increasing ownership and providing service to communities that didn't have their very own radio station. The consequence was the new compeitors came to town to take on the established station, drove spot rates to a dollar a holler, and sometimes made the established station dissassemble their news and air staff to keep the lights on. So, these stations eventually were brought under one umbrella for pure survival.
So if we really could get Clear Channel stripped of all of its licenses, who buys these individual stations, and most importantly, who finances them? What bank, financial institution, venture capital firm or whatever is going to take a chance on buying a radio station when the same government that stripped the previous licensee can do the same again? It's a question that has to be answered. Are we saying we want a return to 12/12/12? Two to a market? What's the winning scenario? What won't leave us with a bunch of silent or brokered stations? I'm not even sure I see Nationwide Insurance buying back WNCI in Columbus.
I have more questions than answered. I'd love to see a sensible proposal that actually is workeable. Even then, there's no guarantee all of those on-air positions would come back. The technology to automate, voice track from a basement studio, and do everything that's possible now would still exist, no matter whose name is on the deed.
By the way, everyone, congrats on a very thoughtful and informative thread. 15 pages and no flame war is pretty incredible!
Another great post from gr80ldies... Very well thought-out and presented with relevance in mind. I must confess, that when one passionately begins pounding out a response here – a simple idea or solution often lacks a few pertinent considerations. gr8oldies has provided several of those in his reply.
That’s because the local ownership/management of WLKI have always viewed their employees as ASSETS – not mere and costly liabilities. That’s one of the three fundamentals to the 30-years of their continuous success – the others being the luxury of having minimal competition in a market with an upscale economic climate and a commitment to the highest possible operation and programming effort. Hence, my assertion that the proposals under discussion here would be superfluous and very unfair to them. While I understand the desire to scatter the studios on Shadeland, how do you do-so and not harm overwhelmingly-innocent Lake Cities Broadcasting!
“Peer trail” was a rhetorical statement. The Commission is fully within its legislative charge to compose, initiate, consider, and elect a rulemaking proceedure. Hypothetically so, recourse and petition for relief would be to the Federal DC Appeals Court – men in black robes – not twelve Janes ‘n Joes in Dayton, Ohio. BTW, I’ve had a bit of experience in that court – overturning an FCC decision in favor of a major market broadcaster on a precedent-setting Section 73.215 case. The larger question is, what might motivate the Commission to commence such an initiative?
You hit the ball out of the park on that one, gr8oldies! I can remember loving the all-new Docket 80-90 before I became a licensee... I can remember hating it once I had to operate, make payroll, and maybe some profit at my [non 80-90] facilities. I had to battle the very-condition you described – so did two other established competitors. These 80-90 “ham ‘n eggers” never had a chance to accomplish anything approaching financial merit... All they did was complicate our sales and force us on a diet – until they were assimilated by “The Borg”. That’s why I was in fundamental agreement with TelCom 96.
First, I never suggested that Clear Channel be “stripped of all its licenses”; but don’t you just love the marketplace? This dilemma may be solving itself, as CCU sells-off downscale markets [foolishly purchased in the first place] as it transcends back to private status. Granted, former CCU DJs don’t appear the beneficiary of these spin-offs – instead, medium size companies—many newly created for this opportunity. Since times are hard, stock value is crashing, and Wall Street is running out of patience - look for more to follow.
This has been enjoyable, hasn’t it... THANKS AGAIN for your insightful and thoughtful posts!
gr8oldies said:
That’s because the local ownership/management of WLKI have always viewed their employees as ASSETS – not mere and costly liabilities. That’s one of the three fundamentals to the 30-years of their continuous success – the others being the luxury of having minimal competition in a market with an upscale economic climate and a commitment to the highest possible operation and programming effort. Hence, my assertion that the proposals under discussion here would be superfluous and very unfair to them. While I understand the desire to scatter the studios on Shadeland, how do you do-so and not harm overwhelmingly-innocent Lake Cities Broadcasting!
“Peer trail” was a rhetorical statement. The Commission is fully within its legislative charge to compose, initiate, consider, and elect a rulemaking proceedure. Hypothetically so, recourse and petition for relief would be to the Federal DC Appeals Court – men in black robes – not twelve Janes ‘n Joes in Dayton, Ohio. BTW, I’ve had a bit of experience in that court – overturning an FCC decision in favor of a major market broadcaster on a precedent-setting Section 73.215 case. The larger question is, what might motivate the Commission to commence such an initiative?
You hit the ball out of the park on that one, gr8oldies! I can remember loving the all-new Docket 80-90 before I became a licensee... I can remember hating it once I had to operate, make payroll, and maybe some profit at my [non 80-90] facilities. I had to battle the very-condition you described – so did two other established competitors. These 80-90 “ham ‘n eggers” never had a chance to accomplish anything approaching financial merit... All they did was complicate our sales and force us on a diet – until they were assimilated by “The Borg”. That’s why I was in fundamental agreement with TelCom 96.
First, I never suggested that Clear Channel be “stripped of all its licenses”; but don’t you just love the marketplace? This dilemma may be solving itself, as CCU sells-off downscale markets [foolishly purchased in the first place] as it transcends back to private status. Granted, former CCU DJs don’t appear the beneficiary of these spin-offs – instead, medium size companies—many newly created for this opportunity. Since times are hard, stock value is crashing, and Wall Street is running out of patience - look for more to follow.
This has been enjoyable, hasn’t it... THANKS AGAIN for your insightful and thoughtful posts!
Huh! I am glad that the decision will be made by the FCC instead of the posters on this thread.
I suspect you guys all have eachother's telephone number. You could have used the phone
instead of taking up space here. Most of you just want to tear it all down. Don't you know how to build anything?
Private club?
I suspect you guys all have eachother's telephone number. You could have used the phone
instead of taking up space here. Most of you just want to tear it all down. Don't you know how to build anything?
Private club?
cold_coffee said:
Anybody hold a gun to your head and tell you that you had to come here and read?
Think of this as a party line phone conversation. I think some learning, some eye opening just took place in the last three or four messages posted here. There has been this feeling that CC is the root of all the evil in the industry. Truth is, they are just the most visible of the multi-station owners that have used the cluster-operation technique. The thought was expressed that it would be great if CC and others could be stripped of their "dominance". Then came the realization that there are not enough would-be owners standing in line with the necessary capital (and smarts?) to buy them and run them better. The came the realization we are not sure we all agree on 'what is better'... what does that mean? Then came a really scary thought... not spelled out quite this clearly... "We know who is going to buy a lot of them! And it ain't good!"
Buried within the bureaucracy of CC and other group owners are all these smart guys who have been doing the research and putting together the business plans internally to justify why a particular group of stations should be purchased and how they must be restructured to function up to corporate standards. Some of these folks are not what we think of as "radio men". They didn't hang around the radio station when they were in high school, etc. etc. These are guys who could be putting together business plans to buy furniture stores, to buy car dealerships, to buy small town banks.
And many of them will be in the next generation of radio station owners. And many of them will crank out their business plans and have the deal nailed down while we old time traditional folks are still down at Barnes and Noble looking through the books on how to write a business plan. We thought radio stations were something you bought one at a time and your visit to the banker was a very informal meeting with very little paper.
So, what else were you expecting to find in a discussion board on the future (or the end) of radio in small markets? Maybe a discussion on whether Fats Domino still belongs in your rotation if you are playing oldies? :-\
R
radioindy
Guest
cold_coffee said:
I agree. Especially when rookie radio station owners get on here and act like cheerleaders for their own stations, then chastise others for posting.
cold_coffee said:
I find it “interesting” that you would return faith to none-other than the FCC—that was complicit in this situation from the very beginning, and remained “blind” to the aftermath as it developed into a greater problem. Do you expect them to arrive at their Federal offices on Monday morning, and out of the kindness of their hearts—remedy the problem?
I was accused of “tearing down” – actually, I opposed TWO widely-suggested disciplinary remedies that would have “torn down” extemporary broadcasters who DIDN’T need to suffer the rebuke caused by larger corporate radio!
Interesting – considering the TRIP [terrestrial radio industry patriot] mindset... It is patently-obvious that a “cluster meeting” has been sent here to attack a fundamental “party line” discussion of THE FACTS. Can’t you “big boys” handle that? Feeling a bit guilty? BTW, you’re stock is barely above “penny stock” territory... In fact, Radio One has THIRTY DAYS to get themselves out of the hole before they are de-listed... MARVY! Corporate radio has such a sterling resume!
I would call attention to an old axiom... If you need to have a license to drive—you ought have a permit to be a parent... I’d suggest that be amended to include access to the internet!
butlerguy03 said:
EVERY station should have someone in the building while its on the air
Turn your station off if you can't staff it 24/7! What kinda High School station should be using voice tracking or a satellite format anyway?
I hope there are ZERO exemptions! Otherwise you defeat the purpose of the rules....
Perhaps educational stations should just be run on the schools cable system and not on the public airwaves
They don't let trucking school students on the road the first day
At this point, the FCC has given the farm away (on either side of the issue)... Due to politics and how our elected respond, they would be hard pressed to take it to the max.. It would have severe responses from the public and industry who will cry that non-on-air sources like satellite, cable and wi-fi do not have to play by the same rules of 24/7... Major 'big boys and girls' will pressure with lobbies.... Little guys will lobby the end of full service of a few hours a day, due to expense and a less advertising to go around for the mutli-mediums of programming.... If you give a community a license then make so NO ONE can afford to run it, then the government looks like an "Indian Giver" and the folks of this era are VERY ANTI-Distrusting of Gov't...... Just a spin from working in the smallest to larger venues of our medium.... It is a great debate...
It was actually the Christian broadcasters, not the posters on this thread who realized the most
serious threat. COMMUNITY BOARDS. The Christian groups correctly saw this as a way for hostile
groups to get control of a radio station.
I know of three hostile takeovers of community stations in neighboring Ohio through these boards.
DANGER! DANGER! Will Robinson!
serious threat. COMMUNITY BOARDS. The Christian groups correctly saw this as a way for hostile
groups to get control of a radio station.
I know of three hostile takeovers of community stations in neighboring Ohio through these boards.
DANGER! DANGER! Will Robinson!
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