Country Radio in New York - What do you all think- especially the moderator

[Markd]

I post occasionally on the Musicradio message board. I have always thought a Country station would be needed in New York City since WYNY 103.5 flipped to dance WKTU late winter earl;y spring 1996.

But the Moderator Allan states "YOU CANT SELL IT!!!". The issue has been pushed time and time again. Still the position with their moderator (who really does know his stuff...I cant and wont take that away from him)is the following.

"Country on a New York City FM would pull a 2 share sure thing and maybe even a 3 share 12 plus. The ratings would be okay and better than what WNEW 102.7 has now. The problem is advertisers have a perception that the country audience pays little attention to ads and does not respond as well to ads as other audiences. There is a perception that the Country format while not an impossible sell is a TOUGH SELL. With corporations owing so much debt for their stations its slim to none you will hear Country on any class B station in the New York Metro market."

A similar issue had been faced with CBS FM except advertisers percieve CBS FM's oldies ofrmat asa tough sell because the audience is getting older and tougher to sell to. Oldies is facing what Elevator music faced back in 1986.

 

[toby]

Country never made sense in New York.
A station would probably be better off going all Spanish than all Bubba.

As for oldies, the presentation on WCBS-FM I think drew some younger listeners like myself. Plus the average demo of those who listen to oldies tends to have some money to spend.

As for Jack, he is going to be run out of town on a rail!

 

[Joseph_Gallant]

I actually think that once Howard Stern leaves, there's a good chance that WXRK-92.3 will flip to country.

What else can Infinity do with it, anyway??

 

[DiamondJoe]

Re: Country Radio in New York - What do I think...

You've asked for my opinion, so here it is:

I agree with Allan. I've basically loosely made the same point he's made for years. It's a hard sell. Oldies is a hard sell, demo-wise, but country is a different lifestyle. That's why Y-107 lasted as long as it did in the suburbs.<P ID="signature">______________


New York City Radio and TV</P>

 

[MoldaMania182]

Re: Country Radio in New York and WXRK

> I actually think that once Howard Stern leaves, there's a
> good chance that WXRK-92.3 will flip to country.
>
> What else can Infinity do with it, anyway??
>

To me there are 4 possibilities...in order of most to least likely.

1. Absolutely nothing...why change again...give Rock radio a chance in NY...even if it doesnt do well...it would still probably do better then anything else.
2. Country
3. Urban
4. Spanish (though I doubt this)

 

[radioresearcher]

Re: Country Radio in New York - What do I think...

> You've asked for my opinion, so here it is:
>
> I agree with Allan. I've basically loosely made the same
> point he's made for years. It's a hard sell. Oldies is a
> hard sell, demo-wise, but country is a different lifestyle.
> That's why Y-107 lasted as long as it did in the suburbs.
>

I don't understand why you say Oldies is tough a sell. WCBS-FM did $35-$40 million, while WNEW is doing $12-$15 million. I don't agree with the assesment on this board that WCBS-FM had nowhere to go. Maybe 5-10 years from now. But with WNEW broken - and WXRK headed who knows where, they had other options. You could always flip WNEW to "Jack" and then find something else for WCBS-FM several years down the road.

 

[DiamondJoe]

Re: Selling Oldies...

> I don't understand why you say Oldies is tough a sell.
> WCBS-FM did $35-$40 million, while WNEW is doing $12-$15
> million. I don't agree with the assesment on this board that
> WCBS-FM had nowhere to go. Maybe 5-10 years from now.

Apparently, Infinity decided not to wait and jump on the Jack train, and at the same time, basically tell the radio industry they're going to concentrate on the younger demographics. I didn't mean to imply that oldies was as tough to sell as, say, country; it's that the format's demographics are high.<P ID="signature">______________


New York City Radio and TV</P>

 

[DiamondJoe]

Re: Rock Probably Won't Return To WXRK

> ...why change again...give Rock radio a chance in NY...even if it doesnt do
> well...it would still probably do better then anything else.

The fact that Infinity has moved the core of WXRK's former alternative format to an Internet-only stream - just as we've all seen this weekend with the oldies format from WCBS-FM - gives me the belief that those formats will likely not return to New York, at least for a long while. And at least by Infinity.<P ID="signature">______________


New York City Radio and TV</P>

 

[Jay_F]

INF flipping the wrong stations in both NY and Chicago

Especially after seeing that sales data, I'm surprised that Infinity flipped CBS-FM and not WNEW. Although as some people have mentioned, If Mix 102.7 flipped to Jack it would go unnoticed by most of NY since the station has such low ratings.

I'm also surprised at INFs decision in Chicago. They have an extremely low rated station in WCKG. I guess the station bills OK, but that's mostly due to Howard Stern who will be gone in a few months anyway.


> > You've asked for my opinion, so here it is:
> >
> > I agree with Allan. I've basically loosely made the same
> > point he's made for years. It's a hard sell. Oldies is a
> > hard sell, demo-wise, but country is a different
> lifestyle.
> > That's why Y-107 lasted as long as it did in the suburbs.
> >
>
> I don't understand why you say Oldies is tough a sell.
> WCBS-FM did $35-$40 million, while WNEW is doing $12-$15
> million. I don't agree with the assesment on this board that
> WCBS-FM had nowhere to go. Maybe 5-10 years from now. But
> with WNEW broken - and WXRK headed who knows where, they had
> other options. You could always flip WNEW to "Jack" and then
> find something else for WCBS-FM several years down the road.
>

 

[DiamondJoe]

That's the popular consensus, but...

> Especially after seeing that sales data, I'm surprised that
> Infinity flipped CBS-FM and not WNEW. Although as some
> people have mentioned, If Mix 102.7 flipped to Jack it would
> go unnoticed by most of NY since the station has such low
> ratings.

If you think about when WNEW abruptly flipped to an all-Christmas format, that got good street buzz... Of course, that's a seasonal format...

Listening to this "Jack" format, given the presentation, the liners, etc., it sounds like something perfect for 102.7. But the fact that it replaced a legendary radio station does have many people talking.

> I'm also surprised at INFs decision in Chicago. They have an
> extremely low rated station in WCKG. I guess the station
> bills OK, but that's mostly due to Howard Stern who will be
> gone in a few months anyway.

Hey, maybe Infinity will pull another double-whammy with WXRK and WCKG next year, who knows?<P ID="signature">______________


New York City Radio and TV</P>

 

[musicloverII]

Re: Selling Oldies...

Last time I checked so is the news and talk format. See, this is what I mean. You have to stop finding some shred of positivity in places where stupidity is so blatant. You can't possibly justify what's occuring here. They're thinking they're going to do what they did at the TV level. Turn the train around by dumping the old for the younger demo. The problem is the younger demo is into a great many things other than radio and this is a joke, it's not going to last, it's like a soundbite. People think it's different and cool for a bit and then get sick of it. Oldies, people know it, it's a heritage and carries out the memories of our lives, our parents, our grandkids and so on. You don't just drop it, especially when it's billing the money it's billing and the future for it only looks bleak if you're some fool in a suit in a corporate office who thinks it's time has past. Oldies will always be appreciated, the only thing that needs to be adjusted in radio are the elements of it. Radio just keeps sealing it's fate.

> > I don't understand why you say Oldies is tough a sell.
> > WCBS-FM did $35-$40 million, while WNEW is doing $12-$15
> > million. I don't agree with the assesment on this board
> that
> > WCBS-FM had nowhere to go. Maybe 5-10 years from now.
>
> Apparently, Infinity decided not to wait and jump on the
> Jack train, and at the same time, basically tell the radio
> industry they're going to concentrate on the younger
> demographics. I didn't mean to imply that oldies was as
> tough to sell as, say, country; it's that the format's
> demographics are high.
>

 

[MoldaMania182]

Re: Rock Probably Won't Return To WXRK

> > ...why change again...give Rock radio a chance in
> NY...even if it doesnt do
> > well...it would still probably do better then anything
> else.
>
> The fact that Infinity has moved the core of WXRK's former
> alternative format to an Internet-only stream - just as
> we've all seen this weekend with the oldies format from
> WCBS-FM - gives me the belief that those formats will likely
> not return to New York, at least for a long while. And at
> least by Infinity.
>

Well like I said above...I still dont see anything else doing any better on XRK. I dont think advertisers would jump on country, the 300th urban station, or spanish with as much enthusiasm as something thats already existed.

Infinity could also be using the web as a way of marketing the station.

 

[TonySantiago]

There are many times Allan and I don't see eye to eye...but I gotta give him this one.

It's just the ever changing makeup of our city. Yes, there are country fans out there who live in NYC, no question about it. But are there enough where a corporation could substantiate making money off those fans...that is if there are MANY fans out there that want this?

You can say that no one wanted "Jack" to show up...but here it is. And regardless of these "geniuses" over at Infinity destroying a legendary oldies station such as CBS-FM, they had to do their research. But then again, they also did research and thought that people wanted a "Blink".

But back to country, it just appears to be more of a suburban format than it is a NYC and I do hope that someone on the fringe (just like the Y-107 days) could try the format again. I think this time around if the format came back, the core fans would stick to it like Krazy Glue so that it doesn't go away again.

TS