Cuomo went to the Spitzer Too Big For His Britches Law School

[cawasinnj]

What is it about the New York State Attorney General's office that makes them think they're the old Soviet Kremlin? Cuomo has no jurisdiction over the opinions that are expressed by Arbitron in their ratings, and even if he did Arbitron isn't doing anything different than they've done for decades.

He should be impeached and somebody who knows the law and will actually DO HIS JOB should be put in his place.

 

[davideduardo]

Cuomo has no jurisdiction over the opinions that are expressed by Arbitron in their ratings,

How are ratings, made up of upteen tables of data, "opinions" expressed by anyone?

 

[Walter Graff]

What is it about the New York State Attorney General's office that makes them think they're the old Soviet Kremlin? Cuomo has no jurisdiction over the opinions that are expressed by Arbitron in their ratings, and even if he did Arbitron isn't doing anything different than they've done for decades.
He should be impeached and somebody who knows the law and will actually DO HIS JOB should be put in his place.

Cuomo has every right to do what he is with Arbitron. That's his job. No, Cuomo has no jurisdiction over the opinions that are expressed by Arbitron in their ratings, but he does has jurisdiction to make sure the methods they use represent the people of NY State properly and that they conduct their business with integrity.

 

[Lando Griffin]

This is nothing more than a waste of taxpayer dollars. We are paying for this "AG" to pander to his base. The only argument being made against PPM is that it is "racist."

How is it possible that monitoring what people are actually listening to is not a significant improvement over a system that relies on people's memory recollectoin of what they thought they listened to -- if they even bothered to fill it out.

The most appealing stations will still be the most listened-to if they execute properly. Now, that proper execution will actually include programming rather than mnemonics through effective sweepers and slogans.

PPM may not be perfect, but it addresses some major flaws of the diary system. It apparantly addresses the PC flaw, which the likes of Cuomo are spending the people's money to keep and make a name for himself.

He's a few prostitutes short of campaigning for Governor.

 

[davideduardo]

How is it possible that monitoring what people are actually listening to is not a significant improvement over a system that relies on people's memory recollectoin of what they thought they listened to -- if they even bothered to fill it out.

The issue is not the mechanics of PPM but the sample and whether it is proportional on all demos, geography, ethnicity, language preference, etc.

The belief is that the sample does not represent, proportionally, the market.

 

[MarcR]

The belief is that the sample does not represent, proportionally, the market.

You should've said "it's the belief of my clients and myself" rather than imply that the belief is universal.

 

[davideduardo]

The belief is that the sample does not represent, proportionally, the market.

You should've said "it's the belief of my clients and myself" rather than imply that the belief is universal.

i don't have any domestic radio clients. However, the belief that the sample is not perfect is quite obviously why the MRC has not accredited the PPM in New York. Further, nearly every subscriber, from Clear Channel and Cox to Inner City, has gone on record with objections.

Fundamentally, if the MRC does not yet believe the PPM in NY can be accredited, we have a basis to say that there are problems without having to qualify or limit the statement.

 

[RadioStarOne]

So where does Arbitron go from here to address these groups concerns David? How would you solve the problems David? Times getting short to not have these concerns resolved. Its begining to look as if there are going to be a lot problems coming from the advertising community next. Then Arbitron will have an even bigger can of worms to deal with! Who needs enemies with friends like these! Yikes

 

[cawasinnj]

David, it is an opinion of how many people they think are listening to a particular station as opposed to a fact. Without equipping every resident in the tri state area with a diary/PPM/whatever, the ratings can't truly be considered fact. It's an estimate.

Walter, he doesn't. If a client company doesn't believe it's getting what it paid for, or some other company feels the data has harmed it in some way due to bad methods or anything of that sort, that is a CIVIL court matter and not a CRIMINAL matter and none of the attorney general's business. It simply is out of his jurisdiction. Yes, that line is becoming increasingly ignored these days. That doesn't make it legal.

 

[Lando Griffin]

The "belief" that is being spoken of is that by members of the City Council who have their jobs and campaign finances at stake and the activist groups they owe.

Only politics will stall PPMs from being accredited in NYC. It is more likely that Arbitron diaries have fathered the generic radio we have in most US markets now; this includes the turnkey ethnic stations who, like their mainstream radio bretheren, may not again get away with empty voicetracking, stereotype DJ patter and similarly-packaged syndicated shows.

 

[davideduardo]

Only politics will stall PPMs from being accredited in NYC.

Only the MRC can issue advertiser accepted accreditation; there is no other accreditation board in the country for electronic media ratings. A survey is accredited when the members of the MRC, all researchers and pollsters and statisticians, believe the methodology and the implementation of same are statistically reliable. At present, the NY PPM survey is not accredited.

It is more likely that Arbitron diaries have fathered the generic radio we have in most US markets now; this includes the turnkey ethnic stations who, like their mainstream radio bretheren, may not again get away with empty voicetracking, stereotype DJ patter and similarly-packaged syndicated shows.

If there is any area of broadcast operations and formats where there is less of what you speak of than Black and Spanish language stations, I don't know of it. This is an inaccurate and misleading comment on you part.

And ratings simply show who has more audience and who has less, with the main purpose of audience surveys being to permit pricing for advertising.

 

[Bob1370]

Everyone's losing sight of the key issue--whether ratings methodologies unfairly under-represent or over-represent listenership in certain demos, and unfairly impact some stations economically.

We know at least that either diary or PPM ratintgs are out of whack. How? Simply because, with the exception of news-talk stations (which for whatever reason come out with nearly identical numbers by either method in most markets) there's such a wide disparity in listenership and demographic reach measured by each method for most music formats, not just urban and Latino. Clearly one or the other must be wrong, and that means the stations affected by underreporting are getting the shaft. Maybe, given the breadth of the disparity in reporting some formats, BOTH are significantly inaccurate. Cuomo is probably acting at least in part for political reasons, but he could wind up doing this business a favor by forcing us to re-examine how we sample and measure audiences, how we process the raw data and assure the numbers we live and die by are as accurate as possible.

 

[Lando Griffin]

Only politics will stall PPMs from being accredited in NYC.

Only the MRC can issue advertiser accepted accreditation; there is no other accreditation board in the country for electronic media ratings. A survey is accredited when the members of the MRC, all researchers and pollsters and statisticians, believe the methodology and the implementation of same are statistically reliable. At present, the NY PPM survey is not accredited.

It is more likely that Arbitron diaries have fathered the generic radio we have in most US markets now; this includes the turnkey ethnic stations who, like their mainstream radio bretheren, may not again get away with empty voicetracking, stereotype DJ patter and similarly-packaged syndicated shows.

If there is any area of broadcast operations and formats where there is less of what you speak of than Black and Spanish language stations, I don't know of it. This is an inaccurate and misleading comment on you part.

I did not say that the ethnic stations have more generic turnkey programming that other formats as you claim... THAT, sir, would be misleading.

You also can not kid youself when it comes to political grandstanding. WHen elected officials want to interfere to make their base happy, the will. The objective in this case is to put Arbitron on the defensive while protecting some statoins from the inevitable outcome of a more fair sample size (if executed properly).

 

[davideduardo]

You also can not kid youself when it comes to political grandstanding. WHen elected officials want to interfere to make their base happy, the will. The objective in this case is to put Arbitron on the defensive while protecting some statoins from the inevitable outcome of a more fair sample size

The PPM sample size is a third of that of each quarterly diary sample. Part of the issue is that the sample is not large enough to proportionally represent every cell when age, gender, geography, ethnicity, language preference, etc. must all be proportional. Right now, many fairly sizable cells have samples too small to even provide broad daypart breakouts.

(if executed properly).

And, in the opinion of many, including the MRC, that is not happening. Until it does, the results are suspect and some stations may be incorrectly represented.