Dan Mason worried about the future of AM radio

[radiotower40]

I wanted to post this here, but, I felt it would fit better in "The Business of Radio"

Please take a look because it has a lot to do with the problems HD AM is causing to the band.

I thought it might have a bigger impact on that board.

http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,158374.0.html

 

[Savage]

Excellent post, TR1992 - I just posted over there. Hope Dan Mason reads the boards. The hand-wringing over AM's troubles is crazy - and possibly cynical, IMO.

 

[ABQRADIO]

Here in Albuquerque there are three AM stations with HD installed, Disney on 1240, Clear Channel on 1350 and Entravision on 1450. Disney's analog audio is so bandwidth-restricted that you cannot understand the words in the songs. Clear Channel gave up on 1350 - 5 kw days / 500 w nights - as the hiss was getting into the analog so badly and the HD only covered about four miles in the daytime (half-wave tower). Unfortunately, their bandwidth was not opened up, so their talk format sounds like it is going through an old unequalized telephone line. Entravision's 1450 actually passes pretty decent analog audio - a bit narrow sounding but not too bad - but their HD interference extends from 1390 to 1510, wiping out reception of a Santa Fe station on 1400 hre in the daytime, and obliterating the band in that frequency range at night.

My own listening experience to HD AM is WLW - y'all know about their plant setup - and the signal drops in and out in a car at about 15 miles. The HD audio is quiet and you can hear the "S" sounds in speech - thats great - but the actual perceived audio delivery to my ear is that of about a 20k windows media stream, with lots of comb-filter style artifacts. In other words, NOT a TSL-positive situation.

Citadel on Class B 50 kw 770 here has all the equipment and license for HD, but has not installed the equipment. Good for them. Martin S., if you're reading, you've made the right decision! Next, perhaps you will turn off the HD daytime and open up the analog audio on your big flags? Lets give our listeners the best we can be - not a brickwall 4.5 kHz. filter.

 

[mgpt6]

If Dan heard WBZ on an analog radio or tried to lock the digital he would understand.
Will the HD 4 upgrade be backward compaitable with current HD FM radios?

 

[Carmine5]

Of course, Dan Mason's concern is that AM isn't showing up on portable listening devices. To be sure, this is a concern but I have my doubts about the strategy of putting AM signals on HD-FM side-channels given that so few consumers own HD Radio receivers. I mean, sure, CBS is welcomed to go ahead and do that if it makes them feel better but don't expect a jump in listeners.

It's funny but here we are in the midst of the Christmas season and once again HD Radios are a no show in either Radio Shack's or Best Buy's newspaper stuffers--not even the much-touted Insignia portable appears in Best Buy's catalog. So let iBiquity split up HD-FM into a thousand side channels, it still won't make much of a difference in either HD Radio's or AM's future.

I do believe that migrating AM over to FM will help; first with translators and eventually expanding the FM band.

c5

 

[radiotower40]

Excellent post, TR1992 - I just posted over there. Hope Dan Mason reads the boards. The hand-wringing over AM's troubles is crazy - and possibly cynical, IMO.

Thanks Savage, I hope he reads it too.

 

[HowardMBurgers]

Of course, Dan Mason's concern is that AM isn't showing up on portable listening devices. To be sure, this is a concern but I have my doubts about the strategy of putting AM signals on HD-FM side-channels given that so few consumers own HD Radio receivers. I mean, sure, CBS is welcomed to go ahead and do that if it makes them feel better but don't expect a jump in listeners.

I do believe that migrating AM over to FM will help; first with translators and eventually expanding the FM band.

Agreed. Putting AM programming on FM-HD subchannels is silly. In fact, the term 'lipstick on a pig' comes to mind.

AM station owners need to come to grips with the fact that there is no future to the band. AM's current dedicated listeners which are all over 50, will be joining AM radio to the grave. Rather a shame really..

 

[Carmine5]

Of course, Dan Mason's concern is that AM isn't showing up on portable listening devices. To be sure, this is a concern but I have my doubts about the strategy of putting AM signals on HD-FM side-channels given that so few consumers own HD Radio receivers. I mean, sure, CBS is welcomed to go ahead and do that if it makes them feel better but don't expect a jump in listeners.

I do believe that migrating AM over to FM will help; first with translators and eventually expanding the FM band.

Agreed. Putting AM programming on FM-HD subchannels is silly. In fact, the term 'lipstick on a pig' comes to mind.

AM station owners need to come to grips with the fact that there is no future to the band. AM's current dedicated listeners which are all over 50, will be joining AM radio to the grave. Rather a shame really..

Don't get me wrong, I haven't given up on AM. There are still many highly successful AM stations in the country; KGO in San Francisco comes to mind. I seriously doubt putting KGO on an HD side channel or even on FM is going to make it more successful.

A couple of days ago I made reference to Mobile DTV. A recent study showed that there is a great deal of consumer interest in this technology provided it's free and not on a subscription. But do you know what service consumers requested most from Mobile DTV? Local news and weather. Well, heck, you don't need Mobile DTV for that, AM stations can perform that service beautifully.

c5

 

[OKCRadioGuy]

We need to, with all of our politcal might, ask for the tv 2-6 channels for am radio simulcast on a secondary basis to TV stations stil there. ( not many left anyway). Why can't we just do analog fm down there (HD hybrid if anyone is dumb enough too) and call it good?! There are thosands of old radios laying around for the old VHF tv band and Japanize tuners that already work there. My guess is in many radios it will be VERY simple for the manufactures to open up the dsp to tune lower. The only good excuse they currently have for denying radio the spectrum is tv, so let's just let the current stations be grandfathered on and use what's left for radio. A poor little am operation could easily get an old tv transmitter, a modified exciter or a new exciter, a cheaper antenna, isocoupler, and some coax and be up and running. It would be a great thing IMHO and a true service to smaller communities that still like their ams. Let's get the space now before it becomes unavailable forever....

 

[mgpt6]

OKC well said. All low power AM to expanded FM. Leave 50kw on AM.
Does anyone know the technical details on FM HD-4?

 

[KeithE4]

We need to, with all of our politcal might, ask for the tv 2-6 channels for am radio simulcast on a secondary basis to TV stations stil there. ( not many left anyway). Why can't we just do analog fm down there (HD hybrid if anyone is dumb enough too) and call it good?! There are thosands of old radios laying around for the old VHF tv band and Japanize tuners that already work there. My guess is in many radios it will be VERY simple for the manufactures to open up the dsp to tune lower. The only good excuse they currently have for denying radio the spectrum is tv, so let's just let the current stations be grandfathered on and use what's left for radio. A poor little am operation could easily get an old tv transmitter, a modified exciter or a new exciter, a cheaper antenna, isocoupler, and some coax and be up and running. It would be a great thing IMHO and a true service to smaller communities that still like their ams. Let's get the space now before it becomes unavailable forever....

The only two reasons I can think of why it wouldn't happen (I believe the FCC is considering it) are Canada and Mexico, both of whom are still using that spectrum for analog TV and will be doing so for several more years (until 2011 and 2013, respectively, IIRC).

 

[Play Freebird]

Does anyone know the technical details on FM HD-4?

I haven't heard any specifics, but the bits will need to be stolen from the other three channels (a 96 kbps hybrid stream divided equally into four parts gives each program a whopping 24 k) so I can't imagine it will please anyone who appreciates natural-sounding audio.

Extended hybrid mode would provide some extra bandwidth, but after the digital sidebands are raised 6 or 10 dB, this will cause even more harm to the host analog signal.

The big question is: Why? Broadcasters are having enough trouble getting their existing multicast channels to turn a profit.

 

[TheBigA]

The only two reasons I can think of why it wouldn't happen (I believe the FCC is considering it)

The FCC is NOT considering it. That's why it won't happen. And the public has demonstrated it's not interested in buying new radios, regardless of what's on them, whether it's satellite radio, HD Radio, internet radio, or VHF radio. That is the one consistent thing we've seen. Sure, a handful of internet table radios have been bought, but the public will not replace the hundreds of millions of AM/FM radios they aready have.

 

[davideduardo]

Don't get me wrong, I haven't given up on AM. There are still many highly successful AM stations in the country; KGO in San Francisco comes to mind. I seriously doubt putting KGO on an HD side channel or even on FM is going to make it more successful.

KGO is now around 15th 25-54 and about 20th in 18-49. It is at the brink of being irrelevant in sales, unless the amount of colon cleanser dollars goes way u´p.

Stations ranging from KSL to WIBC to KTAR that move to FM or move to a simulcast note incredible increases in 25-54. KCBS, which added an FM simulcast, moved up many positions in 25-54 showing that without FM transitioning, these stations will die.

 

[K6JHU]

And if you look at the news reports, this week two AM stations have decided it would be cheaper to shut down than try to keep money losing operations going. I think we may see more of that.