Dawn the gm is leaving indie 1031 anything to read into this?

[davideduardo]

As far as ALL the music on indie sounding the same, Eduardo said it does...which of course is absurd...I highly doubt he has ever listened long enough to hear ALL the music.

To ME it all sounds the same. It is, quite frankly, noise.

And as I also said, the music I like would no doubt sound that way to you.

That's why thinking that what you like or what I like is somehow superior. It isn't. It's just taste.

 

[RicoGregg]

KTLA is going to move out of Hollywood as that property has been sold by Tribune and likely will move in with the L.A. Times. Tribune is the new Jacor with Randy Michaels at the helm of operations.

When Tribune sold the property where KTLA is located, a long term lease for them to stay at the present site was agreed upon. Vinnie Malcom, still GM at the time, stated that they're not moving anywhere.

 

[hamNcheese]

Dawn took a position at the LA Times...which lets you know, paying your bills is cooler then what you have in your player.

 

[4UH8SIMBKAGN]

KTLA is going to move out of Hollywood as that property has been sold by Tribune and likely will move in with the L.A. Times. Tribune is the new Jacor with Randy Michaels at the helm of operations.

When Tribune sold the property where KTLA is located, a long term lease for them to stay at the present site was agreed upon. Vinnie Malcom, still GM at the time, stated that they're not moving anywhere.

Vinne Malcolm was already out of the loop when they sold the property. KTLA is moving and have already stated so. The dollars to build out their new state of the art facilities have already been commited. It will likely be in the L.A. Times building in Downtown L.A. and not on the current lot.

NBC signed a like lease for the now former NBC property in Burbank. It's NOT a long term lease. It's a month to month lease after 2 years when it was signed.

 

[Indielover]

As far as ALL the music on indie sounding the same, Eduardo said it does...which of course is absurd...I highly doubt he has ever listened long enough to hear ALL the music.

To ME it all sounds the same. It is, quite frankly, noise.

And as I also said, the music I like would no doubt sound that way to you.

That's why thinking that what you like or what I like is somehow superior. It isn't. It's just taste.

I was responding to the point made by scooty of all the different genres played on indie, where he posed the question "Do you really think these forms of music all sound the same?" As I said I doubt you had ever listened long enough to hear all the completely different styles/genres played on one station....

In previous posts you kept repeating that I liked a station that played "one kind of music". I think, although not your taste, you now realize there are many different genres played on indie. As for it somehow being "superior" to your taste I was never suggesting that.

 

[notaninsider]

Let this be a lesson to anyone looking to do anything unique. David Eduardo thinks it's NOISE.... I don't think a "broadcater" should make stupid comments. Stick to the numbers David.

 

[davideduardo]

Let this be a lesson to anyone looking to do anything unique. David Eduardo thinks it's NOISE.... I don't think a "broadcater" should make stupid comments. Stick to the numbers David.

Before you call anyone "stupid" it would be a courtesy to all to read both the message and the ones prior to it on the thread.

I said, paraphrasing, "I think the music on Indie sounds like noise because to my taste it is unappealing."

I also said that the music I like would most likely be met with the same response by the poster.

I am talking about the differences of personal taste and how that makes each person like their own personal favorites and not those of many other folks. This is why different formats exist, in fact.

Don't expect me to like the music you like, and don't adopt a superior attitude if I don't. Live and let live.

To me, the music on Indie is undifferentiable noise. I grew up where there was no hard rock, so my adolescent and fomative years did not expose me to it. And, thus, it is highly unlikely I could acquire a taste for it.

 

[Doctah]

I'm assuming KTLA would move into the empty Times-Mirror offices, which have been vacant (except for ocassional filming) after Tribune purchased the company.

 

[briancraig]

I don't hear much "hard rock" when I listen to Indie. What you will hear is the biggest variety of rock music ever heard on the L.A. dial with the exception of KROQ in the late 70s.



"To me, the music on Indie is undifferentiable noise. I grew up where there was no hard rock, so my adolescent and fomative years did not expose me to it. And, thus, it is highly unlikely I could acquire a taste for it."

 

[scooty430]

Let this be a lesson to anyone looking to do anything unique. David Eduardo thinks it's NOISE.... I don't think a "broadcater" should make stupid comments. Stick to the numbers David.

Before you call anyone "stupid" it would be a courtesy to all to read both the message and the ones prior to it on the thread.

I said, paraphrasing, "I think the music on Indie sounds like noise because to my taste it is unappealing."

I also said that the music I like would most likely be met with the same response by the poster.

I am talking about the differences of personal taste and how that makes each person like their own personal favorites and not those of many other folks. This is why different formats exist, in fact.

Don't expect me to like the music you like, and don't adopt a superior attitude if I don't. Live and let live.

To me, the music on Indie is undifferentiable noise. I grew up where there was no hard rock, so my adolescent and fomative years did not expose me to it. And, thus, it is highly unlikely I could acquire a taste for it.

That's too bad. I grew up listening to rock, pop, and some classical. But as an adult I grew to love jazz, pop 50s standards, big band...... And upon moving to LA I have developed a taste for things I've heard in my environment, like mariachi, Zapp and Roger, or Scissor Sisters (the latter two bands you'd never hear in my hometown of Boston.) Maybe I'm an anomaly, but I like to keep experiencing new music, rather than just keep reliving the stuff I liked when I was 16 years old.

 

[scooty430]

What strikes me as odd about DE's and a few others' posts about Indie is not that they think Indie will die, but that they seem to have it "in" for Indie. They WANT it to die, and they think it does not even deserve to exist. The same thing seems to happen whenever the subject of AAA comes up. Where is this coming from?

Perhaps some work for a competitor?.... Hmmmm.....

If not, then based on the last few posts, I think it's basically ignornace, and perhaps the fear of having a station out there one doesn't understand. Especially when your sense of self is seemingly based on your being the "smartest guy in town." It's probably frightening to have something around that you kinda don't get.

Indie is not a "little KROQ" that "all sounds the same," but a station that offers perhaps the greatest mix of genres ever to appear on one frequency. I mean seriously: alt-country, hardcore punk, ska, old school heavy metal, classic rock, show tunes..... Do you really think these forms of music all sound the same?

Nothing scary about it... I personally hate seeing it fail because Entravision was willing to buck the norm and try something different. The reality is that this is America and it's all about money in the radio business. The radio airwaves do belong to the people in theory, but you have to have money to participate or be in a demo attractive (read...easily influenced by marketing to spend money) to be programmed for.

The argument I read earlier in this thread is that the audience that Indie targets wouldn't be interested in wearing a PPM. If that were true (which I seriously doubt), it would serve them right for losing their station due to low ratings and lack of revenue because of apathy. Gee where are these people when there's an election? Not vote? No wonder we have Schwarzenegger in office.

The bottom line is that we live in a capitalistic society and you need money to play... money to win own a station and the ability to make money to keep it afloat. I'm not necessarily saying it's a good thing or a bad thing. I'll keep my lefty views out of that one.

I for one am just making observations and like many people are amazed that Entravision ( a publicly traded company with basically three generic format offerings nationwide (Jose, Tricolor and Super Estrella) has kept Indie alive as long as it has.

How does the station bill? David? Anyone?

"Serve them right?"

I don't think Indie fans should have to be forced to wear a monitor 24/7, remember to put it in its little charger (religiously), and withstand telemarketer-level phone calls from Arbitron people located in India...just in order to hear a station they enjoy.

The PPM is a hassle to wear, plain and simple, and anyone who doesn't feel like wearing one (just to benefit a big corporation) should not be faulted.

It would be nice if our dial, owned by the public, served all of us. Not just the mass majority. That means stations like KRTH for the masses, AND stations like Indie for others. There should be 10 or 11 Indie type stations, all playing wildly different music.

Instead, we have, for example, KRTH, KLOS, Jack, KOST, KBIG, KOLA, and The Sound all playing Boston's "More Than A Feeling," probably because it's inoffensive and "tests well."

This is supposed to be a good thing?

Perhaps more public stations is a way to achieve this, or restrictions on corporations owning multiple stations in a market.

 

[davideduardo]

I don't think Indie fans should have to be forced to wear a monitor 24/7, remember to put it in its little charger (religiously), and withstand telemarketer-level phone calls from Arbitron people located in India...just in order to hear a station they enjoy.

What's been shown is that after an initial period of a few weeks, people adapt to carrying it. In Houston, so many people made it to the first 24 month mark last year that it was hard to recruit so many all at once and Arbitron had to create new procedures to have ne panel homes ready for "lifers" in the system.

The PPM is a hassle to wear, plain and simple, and anyone who doesn't feel like wearing one (just to benefit a big corporation) should not be faulted.

People don't feel they are doing it for a big corporation. They feel, often for the first time in their life, that they can be part of making radio better and that their opinion counts. This, by the way, is a standard "cheer lead" for all kinds of research: you can make it better, but to do that you have to participate. When you do, your vote counts!

It would be nice if our dial, owned by the public, served all of us. Not just the mass majority. That means stations like KRTH for the masses, AND stations like Indie for others. There should be 10 or 11 Indie type stations, all playing wildly different music.

Not if they don't make money. America is fascinated by lists. Letterman has made a career of ranked lists. Sports fans check team standings daily. Share of market is the key to all manner of business... Jack Welch's system said if you can't be a leader in a category, get out of it.

The US system is based on making money. Entravision spent $85 million for those stations. One would expect a decent ROI on the investment, say $7 to $10 milllion EBITDA a year. Indie barely bills the lower number, and certainly does not return more than a couple of million in BCF.

You can hardly ask people to put up money for stations, and then make less than they would get with nice secure Californie tax free munys.

Instead, we have, for example, KRTH, KLOS, Jack, KOST, KBIG, KOLA, and The Sound all playing Boston's "More Than A Feeling," probably because it's inoffensive and "tests well."

"Tests well" means listeners, in this case, in many formats, like the song. The opposite consists of songs people do not like. Why would anyone play songs people do not like?

This is supposed to be a good thing?

Absolutely. Playing what listeners want to hear is exactly what it should be.

Perhaps more public stations is a way to achieve this, or restrictions on corporations owning multiple stations in a market.

Yeah, nice stations like high wattage KPFK, which has a cume that is smaller than the AQH listenership of most of the top 10 stations in LA. If nearly nobody listens, or the listenership is smaller than the size of the staff, what has been achieved?

That is not service... it is waste.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Instead, we have, for example, KRTH, KLOS, Jack, KOST, KBIG, KOLA, and The Sound all playing Boston's "More Than A Feeling," probably because it's inoffensive and "tests well."

Scooty, don't give the folks at 100.3 any ideas about playing anything by Boston. As you know, I am a regular listener and I can safely say I have yet to hear that group's songs, Thank God. The station does play enough cuts that "test well".

Far as variety of stations and 10 or 11 Indie type stations, well, over-the-air radio is still free (non-comms get grants and donations of course) so we have to "pay" for the extent of the variety you like by way of $$$ for an HD radio, or $$$ for satellite radio, or $$$ for Internet only stations (a much smaller fee for the latter in comparison to the former).

 

[scooty430]

I don't think Indie fans should have to be forced to wear a monitor 24/7, remember to put it in its little charger (religiously), and withstand telemarketer-level phone calls from Arbitron people located in India...just in order to hear a station they enjoy.

What's been shown is that after an initial period of a few weeks, people adapt to carrying it. In Houston, so many people made it to the first 24 month mark last year that it was hard to recruit so many all at once and Arbitron had to create new procedures to have ne panel homes ready for "lifers" in the system.

The PPM is a hassle to wear, plain and simple, and anyone who doesn't feel like wearing one (just to benefit a big corporation) should not be faulted.

People don't feel they are doing it for a big corporation. They feel, often for the first time in their life, that they can be part of making radio better and that their opinion counts. This, by the way, is a standard "cheer lead" for all kinds of research: you can make it better, but to do that you have to participate. When you do, your vote counts!

It would be nice if our dial, owned by the public, served all of us. Not just the mass majority. That means stations like KRTH for the masses, AND stations like Indie for others. There should be 10 or 11 Indie type stations, all playing wildly different music.

Not if they don't make money. America is fascinated by lists. Letterman has made a career of ranked lists. Sports fans check team standings daily. Share of market is the key to all manner of business... Jack Welch's system said if you can't be a leader in a category, get out of it.

The US system is based on making money. Entravision spent $85 million for those stations. One would expect a decent ROI on the investment, say $7 to $10 milllion EBITDA a year. Indie barely bills the lower number, and certainly does not return more than a couple of million in BCF.

You can hardly ask people to put up money for stations, and then make less than they would get with nice secure Californie tax free munys.

Instead, we have, for example, KRTH, KLOS, Jack, KOST, KBIG, KOLA, and The Sound all playing Boston's "More Than A Feeling," probably because it's inoffensive and "tests well."

"Tests well" means listeners, in this case, in many formats, like the song. The opposite consists of songs people do not like. Why would anyone play songs people do not like?

This is supposed to be a good thing?

Absolutely. Playing what listeners want to hear is exactly what it should be.

Perhaps more public stations is a way to achieve this, or restrictions on corporations owning multiple stations in a market.

Yeah, nice stations like high wattage KPFK, which has a cume that is smaller than the AQH listenership of most of the top 10 stations in LA. If nearly nobody listens, or the listenership is smaller than the size of the staff, what has been achieved?

That is not service... it is waste.

I am amazed that you can't bring yourself to admit that every station playing the same songs is a waste. What is the point of that?

Don't you wonder why people have gravitated to mediums where they can control what they hear, and have more choices? Are you in complete denial? Do you really think the guy with thousands of songs on his ipod wants to hear 300 moldy tunes chosen by doofuses at the local Holiday Inn who were rounded up for a survey.

I'm glad you're not in charge of my TV. Otherwise I'd have the number one rated show (probably some crap like American Idol) on all 500 channels, 24/7.

I'm sure if you were in charge of the movies, you'd run a steamroller over the Arclight, the Egypitan, Landmark, and the Laemelle, because they play "art" movies. We could all go to a multiplex, and every screen can show the latest Hollywood blockbuster designed to appeal to 14 year olds.

Love your concept that public radio is not returning enough profit for tax payers. Perhaps we should bulldoze parks, beaches, and museums too. Those things don't seem to make much money, do they? Especially the parks and museums that don't have enough visitors. Close 'em up and drill for oil on them.

For instance, that trail in the San Gabriels I hiked last week: I was the only guy on the trail. What a waste of a public resource. I know for sure if they built a water slide up there, a mall, and a casino, it would see much more use.

 

[davideduardo]

I am amazed that you can't bring yourself to admit that every station playing the same songs is a waste. What is the point of that?

Very few stations play the same total library as any other. The fact that statins overlap is normal. What may be a soft song on one format, may be a hard song on a more AC station. What may be the limit of age on one station may be the limit of new on another. What is borderline AC on a country station is borderline counbtry on an AC station. Think of music as light passed through a prism.... it's not a bunch of separate colors but gradients that have something in common with each of the colors to the left and right of it, but a separate color in each position on the sprctrum.

Don't you wonder why people have gravitated to mediums where they can control what they hear, and have more choices?

No, but I don't really worry about why people may have gravitated to media where they control what they hear.

Are you in complete denial? Do you really think the guy with thousands of songs on his ipod wants to hear 300 moldy tunes chosen by doofuses at the local Holiday Inn who were rounded up for a survey.

Yes, I do. Because the guy with the iPod listens to the radio, too. In fact, most iPod users are heavy radio users. In any case, when they listen to the radio, per the PPM, they listen to 4 to 5 stations with regularity. So the iPod has some songs from the contemporary (CHR, Urban, CHurban) that plays 200 songs, some from the album rocker that plays 600 songs, some from Jack that plays 1000 songs, etc.

By the way, the people who go to a music test... who get $75 to $150 bucks for a couple of hours... are very typical of the vast majority of listeners to a particular station. You, on the other hand, are not.

I'm glad you're not in charge of my TV. Otherwise I'd have the number one rated show (probably some crap like American Idol) on all 500 channels, 24/7.

That's the worst nonsequitur I have hear in a long time.

I'm sure if you were in charge of the movies, you'd run a steamroller over the Arclight, the Egypitan, Landmark, and the Laemelle, because they play "art" movies. We could all go to a multiplex, and every screen can show the latest Hollywood blockbuster designed to appeal to 14 year olds.

Art films and theatres are the movie equivalent of non-commercial stations. Major stations want major audiences. Given the choice, the art theatres would be showing films from the big studios, but they can not get them with one screen. So they go for niche markets, sort of like AM daytimers. Thanks for making my point.

 

[hotpatrick2004]

I was furious when they tore down the ambassador hotel where bobby kennedy got shot in the kitchen at. When i was doing some filming on the nbc show american dreams it was so cool to be there such an awesome place.

This country seems to love to tear down places of history but sorry i digress.

 

[WBIMDJ]

The on-going debate in this thread is a classic example of "old school conservative thinking" vs. "young adventurous thinking"...Why don't we just agree to settle differences and realize stations like Indie 103.1 aren't ever really going to be ratings busters but cult favorites. It's like that movie that got bad reviews and didn't make crap in the theatres but has a loyal, dedicated cult fan base that will invest everything in their power into it. Similar arguments come up over in the Boston board regarding station WFNX (also alternative format) that gets pretty dismal ratings as well...but is a heritage station with history going back 25 years. These arguments come up every so often in the Boston board and often go the way they do here...just a rehashing of old ideas and debates over and over again. :

We all know Indie has amazing music and programming. We all know the Arbitron ratings for the station sucks. Let's agree to disagree, move on!

 

[scooty430]

Given the choice, the art theatres would be showing films from the big studios, but they can not get them with one screen. So they go for niche markets, sort of like AM daytimers. Thanks for making my point.


Wow. You REALLY do not know what you are talking about.

Theaters like the New Beverly, the Egyptian, the Laemelle, Nuart, Silent Movie Theater, Old Town Music Hall, and the Arclight were CREATED in order to show non-mainstream films. This is because they WANT to show these films, usually because the owners have a passion for film. It is certainly NOT because they "wish" they could show mainstream fare.

Many of them (Landmark, Laemelle, Arclight) do indeed have multiple screens and are for-profit. Others (LACMA, UCLA, Silent Movie, Cinematheque) are non-profits devoted to preserving and highlighting great film. New Beverly is a family run outfit that is a pure labor of love. NONE are theaters that tried to show blockbusters but couldn't make it.

My point is that in YOUR WORLD, every theater would have to maximize profits by showing mass market stuff. There is no room in your world for anything that isn't test-marketed and ready to appeal to the broadest possible population.

In your mind, something that isn't making as much money as possible is a failure.

And, by the way, every time I go to the Egyptian, Aero, LACMA.....the house is pretty full, if not sold out.

 

[scooty430]

The on-going debate in this thread is a classic example of "old school conservative thinking" vs. "young adventurous thinking"...Why don't we just agree to settle differences and realize stations like Indie 103.1 aren't ever really going to be ratings busters but cult favorites. It's like that movie that got bad reviews and didn't make crap in the theatres but has a loyal, dedicated cult fan base that will invest everything in their power into it. Similar arguments come up over in the Boston board regarding station WFNX (also alternative format) that gets pretty dismal ratings as well...but is a heritage station with history going back 25 years. These arguments come up every so often in the Boston board and often go the way they do here...just a rehashing of old ideas and debates over and over again. :

We all know Indie has amazing music and programming. We all know the Arbitron ratings for the station sucks. Let's agree to disagree, move on!

Good point.

Part of this stems from people having fun with Eduardo, because he is such a blowhard know-it-all.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

Wow. You REALLY do not know what you are talking about.

Theaters like the New Beverly, the Egyptian, the Laemelle, Nuart, Silent Movie Theater, Old Town Music Hall, and the Arclight were CREATED in order to show non-mainstream films. This is because they WANT to show these films, usually because the owners have a passion for film. It is certainly NOT because they "wish" they could show mainstream fare.

At the risk of drifting too far off topic here. Suffice it to say that you are quite incorrect.

In fact the Egyptian was created as one of the ORIGINAL outlets to show big-budget mainstream films.
Even worse, it hosted the very first "Hollywood" premiere, and was the blueprint for the BIG mainstream theaters that followed.
Also, the Arclight is not limited to "non-mainstream" films. The other are small mom and pop businesses that exist similarly to the
porn theaters that dotted the landscape through much of the 70s & 80s (also usually independent film theatres).
And as Lammele and Landmark management would tell you they are absolutely interested in mbeing profitable,
they just feel that showing art house films is a better way to do it, not for some philanthropical ideals.
In fact, Robert Lammele pulled out of Westwood because he thought the mainstream theatres did a better job
of serving the public (and making money than he did).

So more to the point....if CBS, Clear Channel, etc thought they would bill more by only playing independent,
unsigned singer-songwriters, dont you think they would?
Do you think Bonneville is giving AAA a shot, mainly because they care about the community having an outlet for
"world class rock"?

David is dead-on....this time.