While I didn't like it at the time, it has grown on me, even after the suicide of the songwriter while he was under investigation for (if memory serves) child sexual abuse. If nothing else, that was the last song to ever hit #1 on the Billboard charts that had a waltz beat. It also spent 10 weeks at the top of the charts in October, November, and December of 1977 and was rated by Billboard as being the #1 song (in terms of chart action) for the entire 70s decade.
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DJs sharing negative opinions of songs/artists on air or online.
- Thread starter tall_guy1
- Start date
So why is it considered such poison today.
I propose a two-step process.
First, listen to this:
Second, read the Wikipedia article on these folks. The Shaggs - Wikipedia - particularly the section titled "1980s: Cult following and reissues".
Actually, what I'm left with after reading that article is sadness at the dysfunctional family dynamics that led to these recordings. But it is instructive in the pitfalls of attempting to declare something "good" or "bad" when it's a matter of taste, exposure, happenstance, etc.
1) It was played an awful lot on the radio at the time.
2) Debby Boone is the daughter of a man who is disliked by as many people for his politics as his singing voice (Pat Boone).
3) The song's style was 1970s adult contemporary. That song, along with many others of its ilk that are soft and acoustic, just doesn't play well today. Even "Wichita Lineman,", which I also very much like, will force my twenty-something year-old boarder to change the radio station (or Internet stream) on which it is being played.
Maybe I’m abnormal but I will always search out new music, well new to me no matter how old it is.
Yeah, actually you're right. There was something about them that was endearing.
And again, everyone's mileage varies. I have really eclectic taste in music. I just turned 69---mid-Baby Boom.
For most people my age, anything pre-Beatles (and really, anything pre-1967) is "before my time" stuff. I, on the other hand, do listen to and I guess, rate, the stuff that came before.
I think Frank Sinatra was a deserved legend, and I like a lot of his work (his Capitol albums from the 50s and his work with Antonio Carlos Jobim in the 60s), but I (and this is purely my opinion and taste) prefer Tony Bennett, then Nat King Cole and then Sinatra.
You probably won't find a lot of people who put Frank Sinatra third on their list of favorite male singers from that era, but I do. And yet, I still recognize Sinatra's greatness and credit him with essentially inventing modern pop phrasing.
You listed it as bad. Why don't you like it? At least some of the people who don't like it probably feel that way for the same reasons as you.
I've often called Glen Campbell's "Wichita Lineman" the perfect recording (Al DeLory's production is superb) of the perfect performance (I'd argue Campbell's best) of the perfect song (again---my opinion---the best thing Jimmy Webb ever wrote).
But---that's just my opinion. Others agree...and others (like Ted's boarder) disagree.
And even though I think it is perfection on those three metrics (recording, performance, material), I don't know that I'd necessarily rate it as the greatest song. Among them, certainly, but there are just so many great songs out there.
I'm not so sure about that. Without revealing my exact age, I'll note that the stations attempting to target me think I want to hear 90s grunge on repeat.
That being said, a lot of the music does hold up between generations. Most notably, classic rock. Much as I'm not generally a fan, things like TikTok can bring back old songs. I'm not saying they're a fan of all or most of it, but there's exceptions. Classic rock in particular still holds up. Classical, admittedly, not as relevant. I do listen to a lot of newer music, and noticed on streaming services there's a fair number of significantly younger artists that are clearly influenced by older music and many of them do trend with young demographics. Maybe a fan of Laufey isn't listening to the classic artists that inspired her, but the DNA of the sound remains, and some of them will trace it back or have it recommended to them.
I'm not saying you can build a station around it, but some songs and artists are timeless and can hold up and inspire. Others, less so. Some music is simply more disposable and of the moment than the Beatles, Sinatra, Prince or Nirvana. Some are moments in culture, some were movers of culture. That to me is a discernible quality even with music I don't personally love.
Locally our Saga-owned Pure Oldies station (HD2 and translator) recently started voice tracking. The morning guy (whose name escapes me) is a real Debbie Downer when the approach should be relentlessly upbeat on a "Greatest Hits of Your Life" type station. I recall his backselling a Jerry Lee Lewis song then going on an extended rant about him marrying his teenage cousin and torpedoing his career. I mean, who needs that stuff when you can listen to an online oldies stream and do without the unwelcome commentary?
That jock was mentioning fact. Jerry Lee Lewis had a very promising career ahead of him after scoring a couple of hits and touring with the likes of Buddy Holly and The Big Bopper. He married his cousin, and she you really young, I want to say maybe 14. It was so left field for American culture he was basically shunned by the music industry and likely his fans. I'm sure parents wanted their kids to hand over his records. I don't call that Debbie Downer but the sort of 'knowledge' a good jock should be sharing.
That sure beats the young girl who front announced "Coming up Creedence Clearwater with Revival Green River".
That sure beats the young girl who front announced "Coming up Creedence Clearwater with Revival Green River".
So he made a whole bunch of new fans, and sold a whole bunch more records, by switching to country music -- the "billy" part of the "rockabilly" music that won him his pop audience.
I should have added the next to my above response but didn't think of it until this morning.
4) (related to 2) Debby Boone's wholesome image was a real turn-off to a lot of people at that time, regardless of the song's actual merits.
Some people think Bob Dylan, Neil Young, Bruce Springsteen are talentless hacks. I would strongly disagree with that. Milli Vanilli was once awarded a Grammy in a legendary debacle. "Style over Substance" often wins out in the public arena of popularity.
The Beatles music has stood the test of time, while many other pop bands from that era are forgotten. The plays of Shakespeare are still performed today, so quality endures.
Miles Davis, Bob Marley, Crowded House, Johnny Cash, Mark Knopfler, Wilco, and many others from different genres are on my playlist. There's no Radio format that accommodate my tastes, however there are a few AAA stations that offer a very good mix of new and classic artists...
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That was before the discovery that the young men presented to the public as "Milli Vanilli" were not the people performing on the record that won the award.
Correct, but there was an obvious attempt to deceive the public. They were even caught "Lip Synching" during a concert when a machine malfunctioned.
The Monkees were once accused of not playing their own instruments. They did actually become a real band in spite of being created for a TV show. Many of their records are excellent.
The invention of "Auto Tune" and other studio wizardry can create the illusion of "talent" where none exists. That's kind of where we are now in Pop Music...
Exactly. I think I may have been confused by your original comment. My point is the record was Grammy-worthy (at least in the eyes of the NARAS judges), but the award was given to a couple of guys who had nothing to do with it.
Right. That's what led to the discovery of the fraud---after the Grammy had been awarded.
And correctly. Nesmith, Tork and Dolenz could play, but Don Kirshner, the executive in charge of music for the TV show, wanted the best studio musicians in Hollywood. So the first two albums were done that way, using the pros who later became known as "The Wrecking Crew", and some other pros.
In at least one instance, the Monkees were singing over a track laid down by Hal Blaine on drums, Carole King herself on piano and Glen Campbell on lead guitar.
Only two of their albums feature their own playing to any significant degree---Headquarters, which is all them apart from french horns on "Shades of Gray", and Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn and Jones, Ltd. which was mostly them but with more studio support than on Headquarters.
Those are my two favorite Monkees albums. There's an authenticity to them.
Apart from Nesmith on guitar, albums after that were once again studio session musicians, but that included people like Neil Young and Leon Russell.
Yeah. And the irony is that the first big hit with Auto Tune was from Cher, who like her or not, I think everyone agrees has talent.