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Eagan and Braude land at WGBH radio

aaronread said:
For that matter, explain to me why taxing only on profit and not on revenue is any different than a tax subsidy? Wouldn't it be nice if it worked that way for individuals? It also doesn't change the fact that the theoretically taxable revenue spent on advertising would dwarf the Congressional appropriation for CPB.
The idea that money not taxed is a subsidy is beheld by people who think the government isn’t taxing its citizens enough.
Subsidies are allocations of money from the government, such as to a noncommercial station. Tax breaks are reductions in tax rates for some reason, or loopholes. A “tax subsidy” is a euphemism for tax break. This subtle semantic redefinition aka spin is a way of making lower taxes sound like a gift from the government, which finds ways to take more and more of my money.
Wow, what a tangent. To the original point, public b'casting and commercial b'casting are different business models. 'Nuff said.
 
tax breaks are tax subsidies. The government allowing a certain businesses to pay $100 less in income tax is the same as giving them each $100. Either way the government is influencing the market. This argument comes from conservative economists.
 
dyeingeye said:
tax breaks are tax subsidies. The government allowing a certain businesses to pay $100 less in income tax is the same as giving them each $100. Either way the government is influencing the market. This argument comes from conservative economists.

No, it’s the the same as not taking $100 from each of them. ;D
 
Boston public radio has added regular open mic guests at 1 pm weekdays. Tuesday charlie bAker at one pm and john king at noon, brian mcgrory-wednesday, mcgrory-wednesday chris lydon-thursday, emily rooney-fridays
 
The real question isn't if the CPBs and NPRs of this world get too much or too little taxpayer funding, but why they get any.

This is one area where the 'buggy whip factory' analogy applies in spades. The raison d'etre for these entitles started fading about thirty years ago, and today no longer exists at all.

It is time for them to go away.

Regards.
TSB
 
How much of the money from the Kroc mega-donation is left? NPR got a big boost when the Krocs bequeathed their fortune to them, before the death tax ;D, or maybe the death tax doesn't butcher donations, only families.
Is that why so many states have separate classical music formats on HD2 or streaming or analog FM?
 
Rev gene rivers is the monday open mike guest hes an interesting guy. None of the open mike guests are pure liberals, all very thoughtful and can talk for forty minutes st a time
 
It is time for them to go away.

To clarify, the stations won't, and I didn't mean to imply that they would or should, go away. It is taxpayer money that should go away. Most of the stations, and most of the programs, will survive.

In today's debt climate, it makes no sense for the taxpayers to subsidize something that doesn't need it.

Regards,
TSB
 
Raccoonradio - don't you work for the US Postal Service? Are you seriously going to stand there and tell me that there's never been criminal acts committed within the taxpayer-funded USPS and it's never once been covered up? That's some pretty major chutzpah, pal.


To clarify, the stations won't, and I didn't mean to imply that they would or should, go away. It is taxpayer money that should go away. Most of the stations, and most of the programs, will survive. In today's debt climate, it makes no sense for the taxpayers to subsidize something that doesn't need it.

TSBench, I can safely call you "ignorant" (I'll reserve harsher judgment) because you cite absolutely no data on your "analysis" that public radio "doesn't need" CPB funding. Of course, if you had, you wouldn't have made that comment because you'd know that it doesn't work that way.

Public radio's earning power is INTENTIONALLY crippled by its legal requirement to operate in a non-commercial manner. It was DESIGNED to be perpetually dependent on government funding specifically so it could focus on programming that wasn't solely the most profitable. In other words, it was specifically supposed to be something different than commercial broadcasting.

If you want to end the subsidies to public radio, then you must also want to remove the non-commercial restriction (otherwise you're just another right-wing bigot who hates the content and wants to kill off public radio). And if you want to remove the non-commercial restriction, then you're making public radio into commercial radio. It is the inevitable conclusion of such a move.

For a board that incessantly whines about how "tired", "unimaginative", and "boring" commercial radio usually is. Some of you are sure-fired to make public radio into more of the same.


How much of the money from the Kroc mega-donation is left?

Most of it. It was used to create an endowment, not to supplement operational funding. In other words, they used it to provide greater financial independence....exactly what y'all have been bitching for. There's just no pleasing you people, is there?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_endowment#Financial_operation
 
Plus, do broadcasters like Clear Channel really want NCEs to be allowed to accept advertising?

That'd be competition.

I've encountered small market broadcasters that truly despise rural outlets of statewide public radio, claiming they're a direct threat to their audience share. I don't see where those guys or the NAB would support ads on public broadcasters.

What I believe most of them want is NO NCE broadcasting. Or at least, no aid and no ads. Which leaves the public stations where, financially?
 
It's true public radio would have to replace govt funding with advertising if allowed to do so and I would support it. Yes commercial broadcasters wouldn't want that, just as NPR doesn't like idea of all those religious, etc translators popping up. Would it lead to boring commercial radio? Maybe but I'd think not as bad as comm. radio can be. It still would be dependent on private contributions as well as foundations and corp. donations (announcements of which are publicity which can serve as advertising and I think it's a tax writeoff).

Yes I work for USPS and there may have been scandals and some highly paid officials (being jetted off to conferences, money-wasting). The quasi-governmental nature (funded by postage but admittedly we have had to go to govt for $ for retirements and health care) of trying to run like a business but being forced by govt to pre-fund 75 years of retire/health, only agency to be required--yet keep prices low (Postal Rate Comm. requires it keep pace with inflation). We have been denied price increases, not had raises for several years, closed facilities,
cut waste, and there has been much attrition with early retirements. The USPS' existence is mandated by the Constitution (and our only monopoly is 1st class mail; currently our biggest side of the biz is packages and we do have competition). We do have a service requirement to deliver to every address in the country and we are affected by higher gas prices, etc. Had we really be run like a business stamps might be 60-70 cents now not 46, but the PRC limits us to only keep pace with inflation. I don't know of a clause in the Constitution that mandates broadcasting but given when it was written...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPYMMamaWSQn

A film from 60s urging the use of zip codes--you may be reminded of the film A
Mighty Wind (folk msic spoof). Now I just hope Lance Armstrong pays us back...
(USPS had sponsored him, in good faith, but...)
 
aaronread said:
To clarify, the stations won't, and I didn't mean to imply that they would or should, go away. It is taxpayer money that should go away. Most of the stations, and most of the programs, will survive. In today's debt climate, it makes no sense for the taxpayers to subsidize something that doesn't need it.

TSBench, I can safely call you "ignorant" (I'll reserve harsher judgment) because you cite absolutely no data on your "analysis" that public radio "doesn't need" CPB funding. Of course, if you had, you wouldn't have made that comment because you'd know that it doesn't work that way.

Public radio's earning power is INTENTIONALLY crippled by its legal requirement to operate in a non-commercial manner. It was DESIGNED to be perpetually dependent on government funding specifically so it could focus on programming that wasn't solely the most profitable. In other words, it was specifically supposed to be something different than commercial broadcasting.

If you want to end the subsidies to public radio, then you must also want to remove the non-commercial restriction (otherwise you're just another right-wing bigot who hates the content and wants to kill off public radio). And if you want to remove the non-commercial restriction, then you're making public radio into commercial radio. It is the inevitable conclusion of such a move.

For a board that incessantly whines about how "tired", "unimaginative", and "boring" commercial radio usually is. Some of you are sure-fired to make public radio into more of the same.

How much does this apply to WBUR, for instance? Their pledge drives constantly tell me how little comes from the government. The people who argue against ending supports make a point to state how little of the public radio stations budgets come from the government.

More importantly, I keep reading that WBUR does very well in the ratings. If the station does so well in its current format, couldn't it make up the tiny amount the government gives it with increased listener support and a small increase in business contributions, which are already advertisements? The station could fashion a semi-commercial format that is a close enough approximation to what it is now and still get the same ratings.

What's the issue?
 
Part of the issue is the "ROI" - in other words, for every dollar of grants or federal funding, that money is leveraged to produce X amount of contributions or underwriting. So the $1.35 or so per person going to public broadcasting becomes $6 or whatever amount when used locally.

It works a lot more effectively than some government programs. Including the forced funding 75 years ahead of the Postal Service health plans, which passed under a Republican congress. The same party that in 2010 was scheduling "emergency" hearings to defund NPR. Maybe they should have looked at the USPS mandate first.
 
dyeingeye said:
aaronread said:
To clarify, the stations won't, and I didn't mean to imply that they would or should, go away. It is taxpayer money that should go away. Most of the stations, and most of the programs, will survive. In today's debt climate, it makes no sense for the taxpayers to subsidize something that doesn't need it.

TSBench, I can safely call you "ignorant" (I'll reserve harsher judgment) because you cite absolutely no data on your "analysis" that public radio "doesn't need" CPB funding. Of course, if you had, you wouldn't have made that comment because you'd know that it doesn't work that way.

Public radio's earning power is INTENTIONALLY crippled by its legal requirement to operate in a non-commercial manner. It was DESIGNED to be perpetually dependent on government funding specifically so it could focus on programming that wasn't solely the most profitable. In other words, it was specifically supposed to be something different than commercial broadcasting.

If you want to end the subsidies to public radio, then you must also want to remove the non-commercial restriction (otherwise you're just another right-wing bigot who hates the content and wants to kill off public radio). And if you want to remove the non-commercial restriction, then you're making public radio into commercial radio. It is the inevitable conclusion of such a move.

For a board that incessantly whines about how "tired", "unimaginative", and "boring" commercial radio usually is. Some of you are sure-fired to make public radio into more of the same.

How much does this apply to WBUR, for instance? Their pledge drives constantly tell me how little comes from the government. The people who argue against ending supports make a point to state how little of the public radio stations budgets come from the government.

More importantly, I keep reading that WBUR does very well in the ratings. If the station does so well in its current format, couldn't it make up the tiny amount the government gives it with increased listener support and a small increase in business contributions, which are already advertisements? The station could fashion a semi-commercial format that is a close enough approximation to what it is now and still get the same ratings.

What's the issue?
Aren't your comments off-topic? I thought the thread was for Eagan and Braude, who are doing a great job on Boston Public Radio
 
Maybe but I'd think not as bad as comm. radio can be. It still would be dependent on private contributions as well as foundations and corp. donations (announcements of which are publicity which can serve as advertising and I think it's a tax writeoff).

An understandable misunderstanding. Donations to radio stations only apply if the station operates as a non-profit. Non-profits cannot run commercials (that's both an IRS and a FCC rule) so if the concept of NCE broadcasting were ended and all public radio stations suddenly because commercial entities, then donations to them would no longer be tax-deductible.

The esteemed Bob Bittner has this issue; donations to support WJIB are NOT tax-deductible, although he provides compelling content for a large enough audience to support his little operation so he makes it work....but that model would be damn hard to export to the industry writ large. Remember, AFAIK Bob only has one employee to pay for: himself! :)

Anyways, losing the tax-deductible aspect would be devastating to public radio stations. Not so much for the average donor, they'll give regardless of the tax issues. But it would remove a significant incentive for the major donor. And major donors are a huge part of the successful public broadcaster's revenue stream. The average, everyday donors are the bedrock that a good station builds and that convinces the major donors of the "seriousness" of the station, and thus provides a path for major gifts. Same rules apply to most gifts to higher education, too. Your alma mater doesn't really care much about the $100/yr you donate. They care that 10,000 of your fellow alums all do the same, so that they can qualify for a matching donation from one rich fatcat alum. There's a ton of research into the psychology of both minor and major giving for charitable institutions out there, and a lot of it for public radio at DEI, although most of the DEI stuff is behind a paywall for their clients. What's available is still good reading, though.

How much does this apply to WBUR, for instance? Their pledge drives constantly tell me how little comes from the government. The people who argue against ending supports make a point to state how little of the public radio stations budgets come from the government.

This gets into the big vs little guys in public broadcasting. You are correct that the Top 20 or so RADIO stations (TV's a different beast)...like WBUR, WAMU, KQED, WNYC, KERA, KUHF, MPR, etc...would only feel a minor pinch if all federal funding (e.g. CPB) were cut off tomorrow. Most already don't have any state funding, either. These guys already have such huge budgets and titanic earning power that even the CPB multiplier formula for the annual Community Service Grant only makes up a small part of their total budget. It'd suck to lose that "free money", and it might stifle innovation and new ideas somewhat, but it probably wouldn't result in major cutbacks. For these guys, the killing off of the PTFP program was much more painful, as that was a fantastic way to implement major equipment & facility upgrades; PTFP covered 70% of the costs of many of them.

Then there's the middle ground that probably could survive losing all CPB funding, but it would hurt. Mostly the Top 20 to 50 markets. You'd see layoffs and ending of certain services (mostly local content, probably). There'd probably be a couple that would, by luck of the draw, also be nailed with some other financial hit at the same time and be forced into major changes and/or shutdown. But most would struggle on...it's just that the margins would get razor thin and/or they'd make significant cuts to be solvent.

Below Market #50, the loss of CPB funding starts getting devastating. These guys often (not always, but often) have comparatively small budgets...less than $1mil/yr of gross revenue. (which ain't much...five FT staff at a measly $40k/yr salary costs the company about $250k in payroll/benefits costs alone) At that level, losing the $65k to $125k of CPB funding is a major bite. Most of those kinds of stations only have the minimum of five full-time staff to begin with, so there's not much to cut. Worse still, many are owned by, and based at, colleges. Colleges that may already be wondering why they have a radio station that doesn't benefit the students, isn't improving alumni donations, and could still be worth a few million on the open market...and now suddenly might be coming, hat in hand, to the college to help plug a big budget hole.

Finally, let's put this in perspective. WBUR is one of the top earning public radio stations in the entire country. It's also one of the top-ranked stations in Boston in the demos that matter. And yet their annual gross revenue budget is, IIRC, under $25 million/yr. It might be under $20mil at this point. That's a pretty low dollar value compared to what the top-earning and top-rated commercial stations are. Heck, in 2006 WEEI 850AM was the dominant player it was (much like WBUR today), that station was pulling in $36mil in gross revenue BY ITSELF. Never mind the rest of the Entercom cluster.

Why the disparity? Commercial vs non-commercial is a big part of it. But really a major difference is just raw inventory. Most commercial stations run at least 15 to 20 minutes of ads every hour. WBUR usually runs maybe 4 minutes, tops. That's another reason why you cannot remove the non-commercial structure without dooming public radio to race to the lowest common denominator just like all the rest of commercial radio: the profit structure demands that much advertising time, and it's fantastically corrosive to the quality of the programming. As the saying goes, you can't sell just a small part of your soul.
 
TSBench, I can safely call you "ignorant"

Well, that certainly spoils my day.

(I'll reserve harsher judgment) because you cite absolutely no data on your "analysis" that public radio "doesn't need" CPB funding. Of course, if you had, you wouldn't have made that comment because you'd know that it doesn't work that way.

What doesn’t work that way?
I know exactly how it works and how much money we are talking about. The NPR mothership, which is essentially a supplier of around two dozen programs and a dedicated news operation, give or take a zero, ZERO direct federal dollars. But, where the rubber meets the road, CPB grants to stations, discussing how much money NPR affiliated radio stations get from the public coffers is invariably described by NPR supporters as ‘insignificant and “chump change.” But, when you discuss taking it away, that same money becomes the ‘life-giving mother’s milk of radio integrity and innovation in America, and the world. The sine qua non of keeping the radio barbarians from the gate.” In truth, most all the entities under the CPB umbrella would survive without taxpayer money with barely a scratch. I know this, because I know the numbers. You’d know it too, if you knew the numbers. Instead, you seem au courant solely in touchy-feely tropes that have all the depth of a WGBH fundraiser pie-chart.

Public radio's earning power is INTENTIONALLY crippled by its legal requirement to operate in a non-commercial manner.

How so? What exactly is “a non-commercial manner.” Not to put too fine a point on it, but ‘underwriting spots’ and tradition soft-sell image advertising are, by NPR's own definition, close to a distinction without a difference. And anyone who sets up a radio operation, or any business dependent on public and private largess and INTENTIONALLY cripples its ability to react to changes in the market is insane. Since CPB created NPR, do you think CPB is insane.

It was DESIGNED to be perpetually dependent on government funding specifically so it could focus on programming that wasn't solely the most profitable. In other words, it was specifically supposed to be something different than commercial broadcasting.

Well, if true that would have been a big mistake, especially since there is no requirement in the law for perpetual funding from the government. The law establishing CPB gives ‘ceilings’ (based on formulas) for the amount of money that MAY be appropriated, but not floors. All government funding, for anything, must originate in the HoR, and the HoR cannot be forced to appropriate a dime for CPB. That’s why CPB must pitch its appropriation every year. It ain’t automatic. If the HoR ever finds the ‘nads to zero out CPB, NPR better have Plan B in a handy drawer.

If you want to end the subsidies to public radio, then you must also want to remove the non-commercial restriction

Fine with me. but the key to those stations' operations is that they are non-profit, not non-commercial. Non-commercial stations were around long before CPB and NPR were. But since you’re an expert on this, just why would the ending of CPB funding per se change the stations non-commercial designation? And not all NPR affiliates are found at the low end of the FM band. The status of NPR stations is dictated by the individual stations incorporation as non-profits. Everyone (well, almost everyone, if seems) knows that the key to NPR stations being viable is the preferential tax treatment given its donors and underwriters. The end of taxpayer funding thru CPB funding wouldn’t eliminate the tax deduction. Unless the IRS changes the rules, which isn’t very likely.

(otherwise you're just another right-wing bigot who hates the content and wants to kill off public radio).

I know what you mean. I feel the same way about parlor lefties who think that everything they personally like is entitled to the support of everyone else’s money. If I were you, I’d run this non-responsive jive by somebody else.


And if you want to remove the non-commercial restriction, then you're making public radio into commercial radio.


Why? If most of the funding for these stations is already self-generated, and not derived from the taxpayers, why would they automatically ditch their non-commercial/non-profit status and not just try to increase their already existing revenue streams, which would continue to provide favorable tax treatment for their angels?

It is the inevitable conclusion of such a move.

Not necessarily. See above. And, what if it did ? Most folks listen to a radio station because they like what they hear. Or are you a ‘purist’ who’ll listen to absolute crap provided it's on a non-commercial station?” If you like NPR programming now, are you saying that you’d quit listening if they ran conforming sponsorship messages at the beginning and/or ending of the programs or had to run more pledge drives then they currently do, or you had to send them an extra sawbuck every couple of months. With friends like you, NPR doesn’t need any enemies.


For a board that incessantly whines about how "tired", "unimaginative", and "boring" commercial radio usually is. Some of you are sure-fired to make public radio into more of the same.

This is the standard non-responsive BS used by someone who’s run out of ideas and is just blowing smoke. Just a heads-up, but when someone opines that CPB and its NPR affiliates don’t need scarce taxpayer dollars at a time when the USG is borrowing 40 cents of every dollar spent, what you’re supposed to do is tell my why they can’t survive without that taxpayer money and why my grandchildren should be paying in 2033 for your All Things Considered habit in 2013. Anything else is just noise.

But, just wondering, if NPR had to replace their affiliates’ taxpayer dollars with private dollars, why do you think they would replace their current programming with tired, unimaginative and boring programming? I don’t understand the reasoning here. Would they fire everyone there now and hire all new no-talents? Destroy all their equipment with fire-axes in protest? Turn their newsroom into a Dairy Queen? Be specific. Thanks in advance.

Of course, I am unable to whine about tired, unimaginative, or boring programming on the boards because I don’t listen to programming I find tired, unimaginative, or boring (at least more than once, I don’t.) Therefore I couldn’t discuss it. Besides, boring, predictable and unimaginative are in the mind of the beholder.

And thanks for “reserving your harsher judgment”, but you’d probably be surprised about how little I care about the judgment of someone who considers name calling, ad homs, and willful obtuseness as rhetorical devices. As it is, my judgment, based on immediate personal experience, is that countering your arguments is about as challenging as riding over a hillside after a battle and shooting the wounded.

But thanks for playing.

Regards,
TSB
 
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