Ever drive to the top of a parking garage to DX?

[charlestondxman]

I don't know if you could pick up stations from AK and HI over the water, but the New York signals have such a huge footprint, and they may reach all the way to Florida. 880 would be a great chance, as nothing is on 880 along the East Coast.

710 probably won't come in because of Miami, and there's a 660 (a weaker one) in Orlando, along with one in Greenville, SC. 770 would also be a good chance. Bruce Carter, when he lived in Daytona Beach Shores (with commercial grade equipment) got all of the East Coast clears (including some Midwest ones) daytime, but they were lost 1/2 mile from the ocean.

 

[radioman148]

Pretty much that's what happened. It opens you up to every direction with a clear line of sight.
Speaking of AM reception I know a guy who lived in LA who often drove to the top of Mount Wilson so he could hear WLS at night. He said he heard it much better up there than in the LA basin.

Yes, it would have been better for WLS (back then); certainly much better than somewhere in the 'shadow' of the mountains like Pasadena or Glendale. Also, not as much local interference on a mountaintop. Of course, now you get KDXU on that frequency.

When I lived in Salt Lake City, I used to enjoy listening to KOA and KOMA via skywave (80s - 90s). When I lived on the west side (a few miles south of the airport), both boomed in every single night. That's because the Wasatch mountains were far enough away not to be a factor. However, when I lived on the east side (in the 'shadow' of the Wasatch Mountains), they were much tougher to get. For one thing, the mountains blocked some of the skywave. You had 5000 vertical feet of granite lying between you and the signal path (it's very extreme there, the mountains shoot almost straight up from the valley). Also, a local on 860 didn't help with KOA. It wasn't a bother out on the west side, but it was on the east side. Go over the mountains and all of the eastern skywave bounded on.

So, there is something to it - but mainly in extreme cases. I tend to doubt that terrain is as much a factor on AM in most cases. And, when I lived behind the mountains (east of Park City), the mountains blocked the FMs but the Salt Lake AMs came in just fine via groundwave. KSL was a local there. At night it was pretty clear because most of the local AMs reduced power and were directional away from me. So, it was almost all skywave back then. And, those mountains did not effect the signals.

I had the same problem in certain parts of the Palm Springs area in California. Up near the mountains you could barely hear the LA AMs during the day. However if you drove further east away from those mountains & further from LA you could pick up those stations much better.

 

[radioman148]

I don't know if you could pick up stations from AK and HI over the water, but the New York signals have such a huge footprint, and they may reach all the way to Florida. 880 would be a great chance, as nothing is on 880 along the East Coast.

710 probably won't come in because of Miami, and there's a 660 (a weaker one) in Orlando, along with one in Greenville, SC. 770 would also be a good chance. Bruce Carter, when he lived in Daytona Beach Shores (with commercial grade equipment) got all of the East Coast clears (including some Midwest ones) daytime, but they were lost 1/2 mile from the ocean.

Wow--I wouldn't expect to be able to hear the midwest during the day on the shores of Daytona Beach.

 

[BRNout]

I don't know if you could pick up stations from AK and HI over the water, but the New York signals have such a huge footprint, and they may reach all the way to Florida. 880 would be a great chance, as nothing is on 880 along the East Coast.

710 probably won't come in because of Miami, and there's a 660 (a weaker one) in Orlando, along with one in Greenville, SC. 770 would also be a good chance. Bruce Carter, when he lived in Daytona Beach Shores (with commercial grade equipment) got all of the East Coast clears (including some Midwest ones) daytime, but they were lost 1/2 mile from the ocean.

Wow--I wouldn't expect to be able to hear the midwest during the day on the shores of Daytona Beach.

No, but you might be surprised how far the groundwave from the Chicago stations can be heard along the shores of Lake Michigan. Even waaaaaay up north in MI and WI. Straight across the water. Granted, the fresh water is not as good of a conductor as salt water; however, it still works well. For example, WJR Detroit is basically like a local in the northern half of the Cleveland area and comes in well within a couple of miles of Lake Erie in NW PA too. That's quite far from Detroit.

The New York stations have a great over water footprint due to a fluke in geography. NY is at a location where an AM signal can blast along the south shore of New England and down the east coast of the US for hundreds of miles, almost totally uninterrupted. But, go inland a ways, and those 50kw signals don't get out nearly as far as Chicago's do. That's because of lousy ground conductivity in the interior northeast.

We take it for granted that WLS and WBBM can be heard in Springfield, IL all day long. Yet, WABC or WCBS are pretty hard to receive during the day in a place like Harrisburg or Baltimore which is a comparable distance.

 

[ScottBurns]

I didn't go up onto top of any parking garage but I went up to the highest mountain in the Shenandoah Nat'l Park at 4000 ft and I heard a 2 meter ham frequency coming from Fairfax Co., VA about 70 miles away, with a good signal, as well as FMs from Richmond, Baltimore, DC Cumberland, Md area, and southern Va area as well. That was over 10 years ago.

Years ago I drove up a mountain near Palm Springs, Ca. In Palm Springs you could hardly get any LA or San Diego FMs, but at 5,000 feet they all came in very well.

If you are referring to Mount San Jacinto, it is amazing to DX up there. Most of the Las Vegas FMs are catchable from the parking lot near the top!

 

[gar hi]

Wow--I wouldn't expect to be able to hear the midwest during the day on the shores of Daytona Beach.

I suspect that would only be due to early skywave activity.

 

[radioman148]

I didn't go up onto top of any parking garage but I went up to the highest mountain in the Shenandoah Nat'l Park at 4000 ft and I heard a 2 meter ham frequency coming from Fairfax Co., VA about 70 miles away, with a good signal, as well as FMs from Richmond, Baltimore, DC Cumberland, Md area, and southern Va area as well. That was over 10 years ago.

Years ago I drove up a mountain near Palm Springs, Ca. In Palm Springs you could hardly get any LA or San Diego FMs, but at 5,000 feet they all came in very well.

If you are referring to Mount San Jacinto, it is amazing to DX up there. Most of the Las Vegas FMs are catchable from the parking lot near the top!

Although I've been up to San Jacinto I didn't DX from there. It was a smaller mountain around Idylwild.
San Jacinto does block alot of the San Diego & LA signals when you're on the desert floor.

 

[radioman148]

Wow--I wouldn't expect to be able to hear the midwest during the day on the shores of Daytona Beach.

I suspect that would only be due to early skywave activity.

Yeah I would think so. I can't imagine getting midwest DX during the middle of the day in Florida.

 

[radioman148]

I don't know if you could pick up stations from AK and HI over the water, but the New York signals have such a huge footprint, and they may reach all the way to Florida. 880 would be a great chance, as nothing is on 880 along the East Coast.

710 probably won't come in because of Miami, and there's a 660 (a weaker one) in Orlando, along with one in Greenville, SC. 770 would also be a good chance. Bruce Carter, when he lived in Daytona Beach Shores (with commercial grade equipment) got all of the East Coast clears (including some Midwest ones) daytime, but they were lost 1/2 mile from the ocean.

Wow--I wouldn't expect to be able to hear the midwest during the day on the shores of Daytona Beach.

No, but you might be surprised how far the groundwave from the Chicago stations can be heard along the shores of Lake Michigan. Even waaaaaay up north in MI and WI. Straight across the water. Granted, the fresh water is not as good of a conductor as salt water; however, it still works well. For example, WJR Detroit is basically like a local in the northern half of the Cleveland area and comes in well within a couple of miles of Lake Erie in NW PA too. That's quite far from Detroit.

The New York stations have a great over water footprint due to a fluke in geography. NY is at a location where an AM signal can blast along the south shore of New England and down the east coast of the US for hundreds of miles, almost totally uninterrupted. But, go inland a ways, and those 50kw signals don't get out nearly as far as Chicago's do. That's because of lousy ground conductivity in the interior northeast.

We take it for granted that WLS and WBBM can be heard in Springfield, IL all day long. Yet, WABC or WCBS are pretty hard to receive during the day in a place like Harrisburg or Baltimore which is a comparable distance.

In the 60s I drove from NYC to Chicago and listened to WABC almost to Pittsburgh during mid day.
That couldn't be done today.

 

[gar hi]

Yeah I would think so. I can't imagine getting midwest DX during the middle of the day in Florida.

Even down here in winter, northeast and midwest stations start showing up before the sun has gone down.

 

[radioman148]

Yeah I would think so. I can't imagine getting midwest DX during the middle of the day in Florida.

Even down here in winter, northeast and midwest stations start showing up before the sun has gone down.

But not mid day right?

 

[gar hi]

No, nothing at all most of the daylight hours.

 

[radioman148]

No, nothing at all most of the daylight hours.

I didn't think so.

 

[BRNout]

In the 60s I drove from NYC to Chicago and listened to WABC almost to Pittsburgh during mid day.
That couldn't be done today.

I remember very well that, on I-95 southbound, WABC faded just past the Susquehanna River bridge in Maryland. You could probably have gotten it in and out with static beyond there to almost Baltimore, but my dad would switch it at that point (during the day). Oddly, I also recall that it faded when you drove through underpasses until somewhere around central New Jersey (New Brunswick).

Honestly, I don't know that the groudwave signal is any different today - at least along the east coast. But, I've never gotten it via groundwave much past Harrisburg and, even there, it was very weak. It's certainly dead once you hit the mountains. Even WPHT fades out for good a few miles west of Carlisle, so I can't imagine what a great radio you had to get WABC to Pittsburgh!

Now, you could never, ever, do that because there's another 770 in the form of WKFB Jeanette/Greensburg - a daytimer - located about 30 miles east of the Steel City.

 

[radioman148]

In the 60s I drove from NYC to Chicago and listened to WABC almost to Pittsburgh during mid day.
That couldn't be done today.

I remember very well that, on I-95 southbound, WABC faded just past the Susquehanna River bridge in Maryland. You could probably have gotten it in and out with static beyond there to almost Baltimore, but my dad would switch it at that point (during the day). Oddly, I also recall that it faded when you drove through underpasses until somewhere around central New Jersey (New Brunswick).

Honestly, I don't know that the groudwave signal is any different today - at least along the east coast. But, I've never gotten it via groundwave much past Harrisburg and, even there, it was very weak. It's certainly dead once you hit the mountains. Even WPHT fades out for good a few miles west of Carlisle, so I can't imagine what a great radio you had to get WABC to Pittsburgh!

Now, you could never, ever, do that because there's another 770 in the form of WKFB Jeanette/Greensburg - a daytimer - located about 30 miles east of the Steel City.

Right, I noticed there is a 770 near Pittsburgh now. There was alot of interference when I was driving on the turnpike in 1964, but I definitely heard the beginning of Dan Ingram's show approaching the Pittsburgh area.
As far as heading south WABC was gone just past Baltimore because of the 780 in the Washington area.

 

[schmave]

I don't know if you could pick up stations from AK and HI over the water, but the New York signals have such a huge footprint, and they may reach all the way to Florida. 880 would be a great chance, as nothing is on 880 along the East Coast.

710 probably won't come in because of Miami, and there's a 660 (a weaker one) in Orlando, along with one in Greenville, SC. 770 would also be a good chance. Bruce Carter, when he lived in Daytona Beach Shores (with commercial grade equipment) got all of the East Coast clears (including some Midwest ones) daytime, but they were lost 1/2 mile from the ocean.

Wow--I wouldn't expect to be able to hear the midwest during the day on the shores of Daytona Beach.

No, but you might be surprised how far the groundwave from the Chicago stations can be heard along the shores of Lake Michigan. Even waaaaaay up north in MI and WI. Straight across the water. Granted, the fresh water is not as good of a conductor as salt water; however, it still works well. For example, WJR Detroit is basically like a local in the northern half of the Cleveland area and comes in well within a couple of miles of Lake Erie in NW PA too. That's quite far from Detroit.

The New York stations have a great over water footprint due to a fluke in geography. NY is at a location where an AM signal can blast along the south shore of New England and down the east coast of the US for hundreds of miles, almost totally uninterrupted. But, go inland a ways, and those 50kw signals don't get out nearly as far as Chicago's do. That's because of lousy ground conductivity in the interior northeast.

We take it for granted that WLS and WBBM can be heard in Springfield, IL all day long. Yet, WABC or WCBS are pretty hard to receive during the day in a place like Harrisburg or Baltimore which is a comparable distance.

Remember, though, that Detroit and Cleveland are only a bit more than 100 miles apart line-of-sight. It only seems farther because they're no direct route between the two cities. But yes, WJR has a tremendous signal across pretty much all of northern Ohio. It's very respectable down through Columbus and Dayton almost all the way to Cincinnati. I personally have it heard in Portsmouth, Ohio daytime.

 

[BRNout]

Yes, but my note about Cleveland was that it sends a signal in there which is basically at "local" strength - which is very impressive. For example, no matter what car I'm in, the "seek" function stops at 760 anywhere north of the Ohio Turnpike. At 100 air miles, it's still one heck of a great signal there.

To compare, none of the New York 50 kw AM stations have nearly as much signal strength in Philadelphia (roughly the same air distance) as the wattage that WJR sends into the Cleveland area.

 

[radioman148]

Yes, but my note about Cleveland was that it sends a signal in there which is basically at "local" strength - which is very impressive. For example, no matter what car I'm in, the "seek" function stops at 760 anywhere north of the Ohio Turnpike. At 100 air miles, it's still one heck of a great signal there.

To compare, none of the New York 50 kw AM stations have nearly as much signal strength in Philadelphia (roughly the same air distance) as the wattage that WJR sends into the Cleveland area.

Many years ago when I was in Cleveland CKLW also came in very well during the day. This was during the Rock & Roll years. Does CKLW still have a big daytime signal in Cleveland?

 

[BRNout]

Many years ago when I was in Cleveland CKLW also came in very well during the day. This was during the Rock & Roll years. Does CKLW still have a big daytime signal in Cleveland?

I have to confess to format bias here, in that I don't know. CKLW never seems to have anything on that's worth listening to anymore - so I never even checked. Bad dxer, I know!

 

[gar hi]

Speaking of WABC, the above mentioned comments remind me of when I was a kid and had just discovered DXing. My parents and I took a trip from New Jersey down to Washington once in the old 71 Crysler with only an AM radio. Even a little past Baltimore, I remember hearing WABC though be it a very weak signal that was being taken over by the loud annoying static of power lines quite often until it got too weak to hear anymore while also hearing the spillover from that local station on 780.

In the early 80s, I took my first trip down to Florida to check out the university here and I was driving an 83 Pontiac with one of the first digital tuners. Then, 66 WNBC was still playing music and I remember hearing it all the way to Washington but losing the signal on I-95 once into Virginia. Interestingly though, I noticed the signal reappeared for a short time on a stretch of I-95 right between Washington and Richmond but was lost for good after that goung south. Looking at the map, it makes sense because that's where parts of the Chesapeake and Delaware bays lie between there and New York and the positioning is just right to allow for some better signal conductivity. There's also another little branch of the Chesapeake that comes close to I-95 in that area too. I notice the radio locator map for WFAN 660 doesn't show the fringe signal as reaching out that far but I did get it. I even checked on the way back up and it was early afternoon then too. Sure enough, I could WNBC again during that little stretch going northbound on I-95 and then lost it again until being on the beltway going around Washington.