Ever drive to the top of a parking garage to DX?

[radioman148]

Speaking of WABC, the above mentioned comments remind me of when I was a kid and had just discovered DXing. My parents and I took a trip from New Jersey down to Washington once in the old 71 Crysler with only an AM radio. Even a little past Baltimore, I remember hearing WABC though be it a very weak signal that was being taken over by the loud annoying static of power lines quite often until it got too weak to hear anymore while also hearing the spillover from that local station on 780.

In the early 80s, I took my first trip down to Florida to check out the university here and I was driving an 83 Pontiac with one of the first digital tuners. Then, 66 WNBC was still playing music and I remember hearing it all the way to Washington but losing the signal on I-95 once into Virginia. Interestingly though, I noticed the signal reappeared for a short time on a stretch of I-95 right between Washington and Richmond but was lost for good after that goung south. Looking at the map, it makes sense because that's where parts of the Chesapeake and Delaware bays lie between there and New York and the positioning is just right to allow for some better signal conductivity. There's also another little branch of the Chesapeake that comes close to I-95 in that area too. I notice the radio locator map for WFAN 660 doesn't show the fringe signal as reaching out that far but I did get it. I even checked on the way back up and it was early afternoon then too. Sure enough, I could WNBC again during that little stretch going northbound on I-95 and then lost it again until being on the beltway going around Washington.

That makes sense. You were getting some saltwater effect.
When I was in Washington in the 60s, the only NYC station I could get during the day was WOR.

 

[BRNout]

Yes, and we lived in the Washington area (No. VA) during the late 60s and early 70s and never got anything from the big New York stations during the day. At night, they were like locals and even during critical hours they came in pretty well. However, parts of I-95 are farther east than we lived and you probably did get some kick from the salt water path of the Chesapeake.

Not to mention that, at 660, WNNNNBC had/has a great groundwave signal. It always outperformed the other NY AMs into New England during the daylight hours too.

 

[jd]

To compare, none of the New York 50 kw AM stations have nearly as much signal strength in Philadelphia (roughly the same air distance) as the wattage that WJR sends into the Cleveland area.

Great discussion, guys, and without getting overly technical (hopefully) it's obvious that ground conductivity plays a role in several of the situations that have been mentioned. Conductivity maps are available from the FCC which show values from 0.5 to 30 millimhos per meter; for example, much of New England is in the 1 or 2 range while you'll encounter values up to 30 mmhos in many places throughout the Central Plains states. As noted, a "salt-water path" plays a big role, too, since the conductivity of seawater is 5,000 mmhos. You can download the maps in a zipped file from http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/m3/

In the case of WJR (map 34E) their tower is located south of Detroit where the conductivity averages around 8 mmhos, while most of the immediate New York City area ranges between 0.5 and 4. Both WABC (in the Hackensack NJ area) and WFAN (map 42E) are around the 4 range, although WFAN has somewhat better propagation due to its lower frequency and location along Long Island Sound. The low 0.5 mmhos value applies to much of the southern portions of the NYC boroughs and the majority of Long Island. Of course the ground conductivity numbers shown on these maps are approximate values and individual situations can vary considerably, for better or worse.

 

[schmave]

Many years ago when I was in Cleveland CKLW also came in very well during the day. This was during the Rock & Roll years. Does CKLW still have a big daytime signal in Cleveland?

I have to confess to format bias here, in that I don't know. CKLW never seems to have anything on that's worth listening to anymore - so I never even checked. Bad dxer, I know!

CKLW's signal is still very solid into northeast Ohio, boosted by a lobe that favors due east. It comes in very well as far south as Lima and Sidney, and even after its pattern change to protect XEROK is respectable in Toledo.

 

[swfl]

I grew up in NE Ohio and remember CKLW's signal well. It came into the area NE of Cleveland like a local signal both day and night. In fact you could receive it better in the counties east of Cleveland than you could a number of the Cleveland stations at night. The area that I grew up in CKLW was actually the more dominate Top 40 station, even more so than WIXY 1260 was. A lot of that had to do with the better signal. WIXY's nighttime signal left a lot to be desired a lot of nights in the areas east of Cleveland.

 

[radioman148]

Many years ago when I was in Cleveland CKLW also came in very well during the day. This was during the Rock & Roll years. Does CKLW still have a big daytime signal in Cleveland?

I have to confess to format bias here, in that I don't know. CKLW never seems to have anything on that's worth listening to anymore - so I never even checked. Bad dxer, I know!

CKLW's signal is still very solid into northeast Ohio, boosted by a lobe that favors due east. It comes in very well as far south as Lima and Sidney, and even after its pattern change to protect XEROK is respectable in Toledo.

Thanks--that's the way I remember it from years ago.

 

[gar hi]

The only time I was ever in Cleveland was at the airport during a brief stop between changing planes. I remember sitting in the terminal with my Walkman just to listen to the radio to pass the time. Even in an enclosed area like that with normally bad reception, I was surprised to hear WJR from Detroit.

 

[radioman148]

The only time I was ever in Cleveland was at the airport during a brief stop between changing planes. I remember sitting in the terminal with my Walkman just to listen to the radio to pass the time. Even in an enclosed area like that with normally bad reception, I was surprised to hear WJR from Detroit.

WJR used to be able to be heard in the Chicago area during the day before the station in Portage, Indiana on 750 went on the air.

 

[schmave]

The only time I was ever in Cleveland was at the airport during a brief stop between changing planes. I remember sitting in the terminal with my Walkman just to listen to the radio to pass the time. Even in an enclosed area like that with normally bad reception, I was surprised to hear WJR from Detroit.

That is very impressive. I remember doing that in the Columbus airport years ago, and if I wanted to hear WLW (only about 85 miles away) I had to be right next to the window, and even then it wasn't nearly the signal it was outside.

 

[radioman148]

The only time I was ever in Cleveland was at the airport during a brief stop between changing planes. I remember sitting in the terminal with my Walkman just to listen to the radio to pass the time. Even in an enclosed area like that with normally bad reception, I was surprised to hear WJR from Detroit.

That is very impressive. I remember doing that in the Columbus airport years ago, and if I wanted to hear WLW (only about 85 miles away) I had to be right next to the window, and even then it wasn't nearly the signal it was outside.

It depends on the surroundings. At O'Hare I've gotten decent reception in some terminals and in others you have to be right up against the window.

 

[charlestondxman]

I've spent a lot of times on parking garages over the past few years in downtown Charleston and reception is really helped at the top of these. The ones around the Medical University of South Carolina are the best. At the bottom, some of the local stations are unlistenable. On the 8th floor (the top), you can get Savannah stations.

AM is also helped. Distant AMs like WBT and others can be heard better from these garages.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

You have to realize that neither an AM nor an FM signal can go through a mountain. They can bend once they get past the mountain top and fill in lower areas. So if an AM or FM transmitter is too close to a mountain, it will block a signal up to a certain elevation angle. Also, consider that an AM signal has a skywave with little attenuation once it gets above the ground and structural obstructions. So you are right that there will be a positive effect if you are line of sight without obstructions. Also, AM radios are not restricted on airplanes, and people who fly, particularly private pilots, and particularly those pilots who are station owners or are associated with radio aficionados, report legally hearing AM stations much further in the air. People who DX FM on planes are reluctant to talk about it due to restrictions due to local receiver oscillators being in the aircraft bands.

 

[mimo]

In Canada, it's not illegal to use an FM radio (with headphones) while on a plane. The only way you can actually hear AM on a plane is by putting the radio right up against the window. Airline staff have seen me use walman radios right out in the open, and have told me that it was fine, but only once we've taken off, and I had to turn it off when we started to land.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Small private planes have an AM radio built in to the "dash", with presumably an outside antenna, the last I knew. You could manufacture an FM radio with the oscillator frequency below the tuned frequency to avoid interference. I don't know if anyone has done that. Private pilot aeronautical charts used to mark some of the AM towers with the station call letters and frequency.

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

Sunny day, about 2PM, perhaps late April, late 60's, for reasons I'm sure were explained to everyone at the time, a bunch of us wound up on a ski lift to some lodge in the Catskills. Bellayre Mountain, iIrc, northern Ulster County.
We didn't go there to ski. We were from Queens NYC. So while we were carefree, we weren't stupid. We just went to the lodge to drink beer and enjoy the height and scenery; most of us were of age (18 at the time).

Someone had brought along an 'average' AM-FM portable. I forget the brand. We had some fun taking turns with it during the ride -- mostly AM DX, as it was the Sixties. About 2/3rds the way to the top, I flipped on the FM dial. The only vivid ID I can recall was from WCDL 94.3 in Carbondale PA. They were a class A at the time, probably the equivelant of 3000 ERP.

According to the How Far Is It site, it's 66 miles. There was nothing really exceptional about that, I suppose, in retrospect. But I remember it vividly. If we'd investigated further, the lodge and the ski-lift might have been a terrific place for FM from Scranton, Albany and NYC.

I realize that beer and DX are quite the natural association -- almost synonymous at times. But beer prevailed that day.

 

[gr8oldies]

Not a parking garage but I have plenty of high spots to choose. My close by one is a park about 500 ft. up, but of course Gatlinburg and the Smoky Mountains provide plenty of opportunities. Never gotten up to Newfound Gap or Clingman's Dome to DX. That would have been a lot of fun before all the 80-90s, translators and LPFMs came along. It seems like when I get up high, all I get are the surrounding LPFMs and translators.