WTHT benefits, WGAN takes a big hit
http://www.downeast.com/media-mutt/2012/january/new-radio-ratings-for-maine-are-out
http://www.downeast.com/media-mutt/2012/january/new-radio-ratings-for-maine-are-out
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Fall Arbitrons reflect impact of new Portland market boundaries
- Thread starter newsbot
- Start date
It was a pretty brutal book for Saga. Here is the A25-54 ranks instead of Al's 12+ numbers. The top four stations are separated by just a 1.5 share. Then a drop to WHOM, then a big drop to WPOR. Saga's five stations COMBINED don't equal the ratings of BLM & Q or Frank&Wolf combined. Two beat five for both Cumulus and Nassau
WBLM
WFNK
WTHT
WJBQ
WHOM
WPOR
WMGX
WJJB
WCYY
WHXR
WPEI
WCLZ
WYNZ
WGAN
WBLM
WFNK
WTHT
WJBQ
WHOM
WPOR
WMGX
WJJB
WCYY
WHXR
WPEI
WCLZ
WYNZ
WGAN
L
Laurence Glavin
Guest
Maine Public Radio does very well...of course it has several rebroadcasters, but WMEA recently improved its signal which should help.
Adbuyer was quite correct in saying, "It was a pretty brutal book for Saga."
In retrospect, if Saga hadn't dropped Arbitron a few books back, they would have had their say in whether or not the Portland Metro was redefined. In fact, the redefinition might not have even happened. And Saga would not be in the cesspool they're in right now.
A lesson learned for other stations/groups in other markets?
And I'm not blaming local management on this one. I'd bet that the "don't buy Arbitron" edict came from above.
In retrospect, if Saga hadn't dropped Arbitron a few books back, they would have had their say in whether or not the Portland Metro was redefined. In fact, the redefinition might not have even happened. And Saga would not be in the cesspool they're in right now.
A lesson learned for other stations/groups in other markets?
And I'm not blaming local management on this one. I'd bet that the "don't buy Arbitron" edict came from above.
N
necrat123
Guest
Laurence Glavin said:but WMEA recently improved its signal which should help.
They haven't improved it yet Laurence. They filed for and were granted a CP last May, but the change hasn't happened yet. They can't sign on from the new signal until they are granted program test from the FCC, and that hasn't been done yet.
I know this could bring some serious haters - but I think Saga was wise to dump Arbitron. What does it mean to be the most listened to station in a world with internet radio? I'd rather spend Arb money on market research about my P1s and then turn that research into a sales pitch. i.e. "Sure, we're number 18, but our listeners buy a new car every 2-3 years, prefer upscale jewelry, like local produce, etc. Advertising with us is the ONLY WAY to reach these listeners." I know that some of this info comes from the Arbs, but a locally based research is sure to get better, harder data.
Now, maybe Saga isn't doing that. I have no idea - but if they are - that's a heck of a lot smarter than worrying about who is #1. It's also how you sell internet advertising packages. It sure makes sense to me.
Now, maybe Saga isn't doing that. I have no idea - but if they are - that's a heck of a lot smarter than worrying about who is #1. It's also how you sell internet advertising packages. It sure makes sense to me.
I totally agree with lookmanohands.
In the end, Arbitron doesn't mean squat. They've always used tiny samples...and they've only gotten smaller. And their methodology is far from perfect. And many nationwide agencies don't put a lot of stock into either.
We all know of very successful stations who, for some reason or another, never do well in the ratings. And we know of stations who seem to do well in the book...but struggle financially.
The successful stations are the ones who thrive financially, have busy phones, good attendance at remotes...Oh...and having happy people working for them doesn't hurt, either.
In the end, Arbitron doesn't mean squat. They've always used tiny samples...and they've only gotten smaller. And their methodology is far from perfect. And many nationwide agencies don't put a lot of stock into either.
We all know of very successful stations who, for some reason or another, never do well in the ratings. And we know of stations who seem to do well in the book...but struggle financially.
The successful stations are the ones who thrive financially, have busy phones, good attendance at remotes...Oh...and having happy people working for them doesn't hurt, either.
Okay, Clinkin and lookmanodhands. I'll agree with your comments in five years or so. What is this "world with Internet radio" of which you speak? It accounts for less than 2% of all listening in the Portland market today. Which leaves 98% of listening -- give or take -- to terrestrial radio (and a fraction to satellite radio, of course). As an advertiser, which cluster of listeners would you rather reach?
Your points about ratings not being everything are very true, yes. But at least today, Arbitron is the currency with which advertising agencies exchange value with radio stations.
It'd be interesting to hear adbuyer1 weigh in on this.
Your points about ratings not being everything are very true, yes. But at least today, Arbitron is the currency with which advertising agencies exchange value with radio stations.
It'd be interesting to hear adbuyer1 weigh in on this.
If Saga was taking the millions and millions of dollars it wasn't paying Arbitron corporately and doing as Lookmanohands suggests, then I would agree with his post. But they're not. It was simply a big cost savings initiative. End of story.
For many local businesses, Arbitron ratings don't matter. It is about relationships and results. BUT.....
From what I understand, Portland is a FIVE million dollar + national marketplace and that is ALL dependent on ratings; regardless of sample size, methodoligy, etc. It's the only thing that matters. I don't care who you are, that's a ton of money and their current ratings are a very, very bad place to be when competing for that money.
For many local businesses, Arbitron ratings don't matter. It is about relationships and results. BUT.....
From what I understand, Portland is a FIVE million dollar + national marketplace and that is ALL dependent on ratings; regardless of sample size, methodoligy, etc. It's the only thing that matters. I don't care who you are, that's a ton of money and their current ratings are a very, very bad place to be when competing for that money.
And yet, they make NO changes of any consequence. The GM, all the PD's, and sales managers remain constant, with no upward movement in ratings for a long, long time. Loyalty is one thing, but they're getting killed out there. Are Ed and Steve just too lazy to make any changes?
You won't hear me disagree with Underminer. I don't know the first thing about radio sales and their relation to the Arbs (always stayed clear of that side of the office - except when they had a big barrel of Utz cheeseballs and I was working overnights). I do wish they'd be more creative at PRG. I do hope that next time the bank is running dry, they cut the people who don't want to be there and keep the people that do. But then again....
Saga is trading up at $43.31 a share. Cummulus is trading up at $3.54 and poor Lou is in bankruptcy (or emerging or something). And somebody keeps donating to those religious stations.
Just sayin': I don't know how much of PRG's decisions are influenced by corporate (or the other way around) but like it or not, from a purely business sense, I think they know which end is up.
(After thought: Stock prices are all relative. So maybe these ratings will cause a big shake up. Somehow, I doubt it.)
Saga is trading up at $43.31 a share. Cummulus is trading up at $3.54 and poor Lou is in bankruptcy (or emerging or something). And somebody keeps donating to those religious stations.
Just sayin': I don't know how much of PRG's decisions are influenced by corporate (or the other way around) but like it or not, from a purely business sense, I think they know which end is up.
(After thought: Stock prices are all relative. So maybe these ratings will cause a big shake up. Somehow, I doubt it.)
Clickin said:I totally agree with lookmanohands.
In the end, Arbitron doesn't mean squat. They've always used tiny samples...and they've only gotten smaller. And their methodology is far from perfect. And many nationwide agencies don't put a lot of stock into either.
We all know of very successful stations who, for some reason or another, never do well in the ratings. And we know of stations who seem to do well in the book...but struggle financially.
Reminds of Bangor's 97X (Alternative Rock) back around '95-'96. IIRC, fairly good ratings, pretty good airstaff but it folded afterr a couple of years----I suspect because AE's couldn't get local advertisers to open their wallets and doors to people with pink hair, a face full of metal, and bizarre tattoos.
Why buy Arbitron? "Because you'll get better ratings."
special ed said:Why buy Arbitron? "Because you'll get better ratings."
Ah no you won't. You may know your ratings w/o some guy getting the info illegally from an ad agency.
Should Saga consider an FM simulcast for WGAN? It's clear this newly-expanded Portland market has dealt a big blow to WGAN's ratings. Now it's near the bottom of the 25-54 demo! For years WGAN, at least in overall numbers, was a strong #1 in Portland.
But that was when the Portland market was the city and a few close-in suburbs. The 560 signal covered the market just fine. Not any more.
Being on FM for a Talk station isn't an automatic win. Let's remember when WLOB was simulcasting its Conservative Talk format on 96.3, a big signal Class C FM. It really had little impact on ratings. WGAN-AM had three or four times WLOB-AM-FM's numbers.
So if Saga gave WGAN an FM simulcast, how much would that help? I think the Liberals-Always-Bad/Conservatives-Always-Good format is not making it with under 55 listeners these days. If Saga simply blew up WMGX or another FM and put WGAN on that signal, but left programming exactly as it is, would that make much difference? It's still the same format all day long.
So what does Saga do? Do many listeners tune in mostly for WGAN's news coverage and don't care about ultra-conservative talk? Keep Rush from noon - 3pm, but replace Beck and the others with moderate shows like Michael Smerconish or non-political shows like Dave Ramsey and Dr. Joy Browne? Would a new WGAN-AM-FM bill better than WGAN-AM and WMGX-FM do now individually?
Gregg
[email protected]
But that was when the Portland market was the city and a few close-in suburbs. The 560 signal covered the market just fine. Not any more.
Being on FM for a Talk station isn't an automatic win. Let's remember when WLOB was simulcasting its Conservative Talk format on 96.3, a big signal Class C FM. It really had little impact on ratings. WGAN-AM had three or four times WLOB-AM-FM's numbers.
So if Saga gave WGAN an FM simulcast, how much would that help? I think the Liberals-Always-Bad/Conservatives-Always-Good format is not making it with under 55 listeners these days. If Saga simply blew up WMGX or another FM and put WGAN on that signal, but left programming exactly as it is, would that make much difference? It's still the same format all day long.
So what does Saga do? Do many listeners tune in mostly for WGAN's news coverage and don't care about ultra-conservative talk? Keep Rush from noon - 3pm, but replace Beck and the others with moderate shows like Michael Smerconish or non-political shows like Dave Ramsey and Dr. Joy Browne? Would a new WGAN-AM-FM bill better than WGAN-AM and WMGX-FM do now individually?
Gregg
[email protected]
Gregg said:Being on FM for a Talk station isn't an automatic win. Let's remember when WLOB was simulcasting its Conservative Talk format on 96.3, a big signal Class C FM. It really had little impact on ratings. WGAN-AM had three or four times WLOB-AM-FM's numbers.
WLOB has been on FM twice...once on 96.3 then tried last year (briefly) on 95.5 before that reverted back to WEEI
Maybe Saga just owns too many talk stations in Portland...
Cary P. just looooooooooooves his AM talkers. Little cost, low maintenance. Plus, he can continue to concentrate on more important matters, like getting his hair done a couple times a week.
Ray, I dunno. Then again, nobody held a gun to anybody else's head and said "Buy my dead-ass AM frequencies." Ya get what ya pay for, huh?
Saga in Portland has 4 of them (560, 970, 1400, 1490), all running some form of conserva-talk. Besides 870 and 1310, are there ANY other AM frequencies in Portland?
Saga in Portland has 4 of them (560, 970, 1400, 1490), all running some form of conserva-talk. Besides 870 and 1310, are there ANY other AM frequencies in Portland?
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