Family Stations Will Sell 94.7FM WFME Newark

[reelyreal]

94.7 can move, and should move, to Empire.

If you see the FCC's 54dbu contour of 94.7 as it is presently in West Orange
http://maps.google.com/?q=http://tr...FME&freq=94.7&contour=54&city=NEWARK&state=NJ
and compare it with WMAS in "Springfield"
http://maps.google.com/?q=http://tr...FM&freq=94.7&contour=54&city=ENFIELD&state=CT,
then take any given full Empire signal, in this case WPLJ,
http://maps.google.com/?q=http://tr...J&freq=95.5&contour=54&city=NEW_YORK&state=NY
you will see that in no way do either scenarios fall inside the protected contours of the other.

Radio-locator is a cute website, but go to the guys and gals signing off of the potential change.

As I've stated before and ""stationless listener" has eluded to, 94.7 is part of the "Holy Grail" of radio: starting with 88.3-107.5, at 800kc increments.

I sometimes have to wonder if there isn't an effort to minimize the importance of these frequency allocations. But then I think that, after all, this is just a discussion board.

Move it, then spin the format wheel.

Unless Pillar of Fire gets it. (yeah, I read non-comm to comm license, too - big deal. Buy the station, first.)

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

Interfering and protected contours are two different things. Just because protected contours don't overlap doesn't mean the interfering contours don't either. There are a lot of "what-if's:" co-channel interference contours would depend if you're leaving both WFME and WMAS-FM as class B's, or if WFME downgrades to a B1.

If you've got to go directional, where are you going to find room on ESB to go directional?

I think an ESB move is a gray area. It's definitely not a move that can be "armchair engineered," so I wouldn't dare say whether or not it definitively can or can't be done.

NOW, if Cumulus were to buy WFME and wanted to take both 94.7's directional, then we've got a whole different ballgame...

 

[Kent]

I think you were trying to get at this, but keep in mind that protected signal contours don't mean much of anything when it comes to short spacing. The FCC requires two class B signals to be roughly 150 miles apart if they're on the same channel. The flight distance between New York and Springfield, MA is approximately 120 miles. Even if WFME were to downgrade to a B1, it would still have to be 131 miles from WMAS-FM to clear spacing requirements.

There are a couple of other issues that could come into play here. If the two stations are already short-spaced and have been grandfathered in at their current locations, there could be a chance for WFME to move. This seems plausible as West Orange and Springfield, MA are roughly 125 miles apart. The FCC allows already short-spaced allotments an opportunity to move so long as the move doesn't exacerbate the problem. However, I believe the FCC regards "exacerbating the problem" as moving your transmitter closer to the other short-spaced station's transmitter. In other words, you can move a transmitter within the forbidden zone, but it has to be an equal or greater distance from the other transmitter. This would still rule out a move of WFME to pretty much anywhere in New York.

Also, if Cumulus were to buy WFME, they might be able to consider the possible interference between WFME and WMAS-FM as acceptable. I don't know what the FCC requires in terms of mutually agreeing to accept interference, but I know it was at least allowed at one time.

And, yes, there are different rules with regard to directional antennas. I'm not exactly sure what they are or what the technical limitations are for putting up a directional antenna on the Empire State Building, but a directional antenna might be an option. Of course, as others have mentioned, it might not matter much since going directional would likely continue to exclude the northeastern part of the market.

 

[butchfm]

www.bbnradio.org

BBN has a radio network around the country...may have an interest in 94.7FM

 

[davideduardo]

www.bbnradio.org

BBN has a radio network around the country...may have an interest in 94.7FM

I believe it has been stated that Family will not sell to another religious operator, thus the filing to convert to a commercial station.

 

[stationless listener]

I would add that it is also time to "secularize" 94.7. There are people who want various non-religious formats not served by the other stations who would want a new station on that channel.

New York City, despite its historical temples, churches, etc., have more or less secularized. If having a religious station would have worked more people would have listened to WFME, WMCA, WNSR, etc.. Instead, it took a far-out prophecy followed by tons of money thrown away in advertising it that drew attention to WFME during the last year. The prophecy came and went and now some of their stations are going. To secular groups.

 

[Play Freebird]

There are a couple of other issues that could come into play here. If the two stations are already short-spaced and have been grandfathered in at their current locations, there could be a chance for WFME to move. This seems plausible as West Orange and Springfield, MA are roughly 125 miles apart. The FCC allows already short-spaced allotments an opportunity to move so long as the move doesn't exacerbate the problem. However, I believe the FCC regards "exacerbating the problem" as moving your transmitter closer to the other short-spaced station's transmitter. In other words, you can move a transmitter within the forbidden zone, but it has to be an equal or greater distance from the other transmitter. This would still rule out a move of WFME to pretty much anywhere in New York.

The rule governing grandfathered short-spaced stations is 73.213. WFME would be allowed to move closer to WMAS-FM if it can be shown that total area and population in the interference zones of each station are not increased. Since both stations are commercial Class B, predicted interference would occur where the 34 dBu interfering contour of one station overlaps the 54 dBu service contour of the other. I have software to do these studies, so I just checked the situation.

Here's where it gets interesting. WFME could indeed move to Empire and operate with full power from the master antenna without causing any additional interference to WMAS --- however, WFME's new 54 dBu contour would receive considerably more overlap from the 34 dBu of WMAS. To keep the total area of received interference the same in compliance with 73.213, WFME would need to reduce power by about 6 dB. In other words, if the nondirectional master antenna is used, the allowable ERP would be 1.5 kW, rather than the full 6 kW. Overlap would decrease towards Westchester County, but it pops out on Long Island.

Now for a lesson in FCC Physics: If WFME were considered a Class C2 commercial facility (or even Class B non-commercial), none of this would matter because WFME's protected contour would be defined as 60 dBu, the WMAS interfering contour would become the 40 dBu, and they would clear. WFME could then run 6 kW at Empire and serve far more population, but the FCC wouldn't consider this "in the public interest".

Does this make any sense?

 

[ansky212]

In theory, the future of radio could/should be HD sub channels. It's ashame that hasn't taken off. If everyone had an HD radio and stations actually cared what they put on their sub channels there would actually be enough fm stations for most viable or even non viable formats. It would silence the whole AM/FM debate.

If you have ever listened to an HD radio in the car you'll understand why HD radio will never take off. The audio dropouts make HD radio unlistenable in the car. With analog radio you don't even notice most of the time when you experience interference. It's totally different with digital.

 

[badjef]

94.7 will move. I have very little doubt about that.
Initially, it may run reduced power, but the harder thing would be the move.

If Cumulus purchases the frequency, then the move will be much easier. Don't be surprised to see them try to move WMAS so as to fall out from under the short spaced concerns.

I can't stress the importance of those frequencies enough. Where do you think 100.3 was before Empire? And why did it move?

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[w9wi]

The rule governing grandfathered short-spaced stations is 73.213. WFME would be allowed to move closer to WMAS-FM if it can be shown that total area and population in the interference zones of each station are not increased. Since both stations are commercial Class B, predicted interference would occur where the 34 dBu interfering contour of one station overlaps the 54 dBu service contour of the other. I have software to do these studies, so I just checked the situation.

Here's where it gets interesting. WFME could indeed move to Empire and operate with full power from the master antenna without causing any additional interference to WMAS --- however, WFME's new 54 dBu contour would receive considerably more overlap from the 34 dBu of WMAS. To keep the total area of received interference the same in compliance with 73.213, WFME would need to reduce power by about 6 dB. In other words, if the nondirectional master antenna is used, the allowable ERP would be 1.5 kW, rather than the full 6 kW. Overlap would decrease towards Westchester County, but it pops out on Long Island.

- Is WFME allowed to agree to accept the interference from WMAS?
- What happens if the same company buys both stations & downgrades WMAS to Class B1?

 

[luperm]

94.7 will move. I have very little doubt about that.
Initially, it may run reduced power, but the harder thing would be the move.

If Cumulus purchases the frequency, then the move will be much easier. Don't be surprised to see them try to move WMAS so as to fall out from under the short spaced concerns.

I can't stress the importance of those frequencies enough. Where do you think 100.3 was before Empire? And why did it move?

100.3 was an easier move since they did not have the same short spacing issues. By moving to Empire, they moved FURTHER from the co-channel in Media, PA. Moving WFME to Empire worsens an already short-spaced situation.
Plus, what about second adjacent stations like 95.1 in Brookfield/Danbury, CT and 94.3 in Smithtown, NY?

 

[WNTIRadio]

Except for some parts of Long Island, 94.7 is a blowtorch from it's current site. I drove it up to Danbury yesterday, and for whatever reason, the NYC FM's were getting beat up and 94.7 was clear as a bell. Perhaps it's the way the terrain goes up there that it had a clearer shot to the area?

In NYC proper, 94.7 has no issues from where I've heard it. Naturally, any company that buys it will want to try and put it on Empire.

But here's an interesting scenario... what about the soon to be completed Freedom Tower? I'm not home right not to run the maps, but that seems like it would change the overlap to WMAS a lot less, being that much farther south.

 

[recto101]

Does WFME gets an AM outlet in the process?
Remember when CBS sold "KFRC The Big 610" in SFO for 106.9. CBS got 106.9 and Camping got 610.
but look we have go go back to the 1970's too.
CBS did a 3 way trade Camping got 106.9. CBS got 97.3 and KMPX got 98.9 FM in SFO.

We don't know as there are no known buyers yet. However, I'd find it highly unlikely they will get any NYC radio station in exchange. They gave up their DC station, not replacing coverage in most of that market. Looks like ditto for Philly as well.

It appears Camping is out from the network and in order to finance the end times spending spree they did and to replace irritated former listeners' donations, these commercial band stations must go!

Radio-X

Well we should wait for the "Judgement Day" billboards to show up again in November and December all over the USA from the Family Radio's corporate in Oakland to Times Square to see what the story is.

 

[luperm]

Except for some parts of Long Island, 94.7 is a blowtorch from it's current site. I drove it up to Danbury yesterday, and for whatever reason, the NYC FM's were getting beat up and 94.7 was clear as a bell. Perhaps it's the way the terrain goes up there that it had a clearer shot to the area?

In NYC proper, 94.7 has no issues from where I've heard it. Naturally, any company that buys it will want to try and put it on Empire.

But here's an interesting scenario... what about the soon to be completed Freedom Tower? I'm not home right not to run the maps, but that seems like it would change the overlap to WMAS a lot less, being that much farther south.

Wouldn't 94.3 in Asbury Park and the 94.5 in Trenton then come into play?

 

[ansky212]

Wouldn't 94.3 in Asbury Park and the 94.5 in Trenton then come into play?

I think a move to either ESB or Freedom Tower would actually move 94.7 further away from 94.5 in Trenton. So I don't think that would be an issue.

 

[fybush]

I dig pretty deeply into the allocations issues in this morning's NERW column over at fybush.com...Freebird is right on track with his comments, and I'd add a few more points:

-WIGX and WRKI are non-factors; under pre-1964 grandfathering, there's no protection to second-adjacent stations, which is how 93.5 and 96.7 moved into the Bronx.

-Moving to any NYC site (4TS, ESB, Freedom Tower) would decrease the interference between WFME and WPST. It is not clear to me, from a quick read of 73.213, whether a buyer of WFME could use that interference reduction to help offset an increase in interference to WMAS.

-There is a provision in 73.213 that allows a station to make a "public interest" showing to outweigh increased interference, especially if they can demonstrate that areas receiving new interference have at least five other full-time broadcast services. I don't recall this provision being successfully invoked any time recently.

-There is no aperture available at Empire (to the best of my knowledge) for a new directional FM antenna. The rent for a standalone FM antenna there could well be prohibitive. There's a reason everyone else on Empire combines into one of two master antennas.

The scenario is definitely different depending on whether Citadel or anyone else gets 94.7. Citadel has lots of options for downgrading WMAS to make a NYC 94.7 work; conversely, it can use WMAS as a convenient blocker to thwart anyone else's attempts to upgrade WFME.

 

[Play Freebird]

Wouldn't 94.3 in Asbury Park and the 94.5 in Trenton then come into play?

I think a move to either ESB or Freedom Tower would actually move 94.7 further away from 94.5 in Trenton. So I don't think that would be an issue.

Scott posted his reply while I was writing this, so some of my comments may be redundant.

As a second-adjacent grandfathered station, WJLK 94.3 isn't likely to be a problem, as 73.213 allows these 2nd- and 3rd-adjacent overlaps to be disregarded, and WRKI 95.1 meets the normal spacing requirements. However, my analysis shows that WIGX 94.3 in Smithtown does become a problem at Empire (or anywhere in Manhattan). The present WFME site is far enough west of WIGX not be be grandfathered, so 73.213 doesn't apply -- but Empire violates both the 73.207 and 73.215(e) minimums -- so, unless WIGX can be moved a few miles east, the FCC won't allow this short spacing without a waiver which will be difficult to obtain, trust me.

The remaining option would be to downgrade WFME from B to B1 which throws away a lot of coverage in directions where these's no overlap.

This is why it would be beneficial for the FCC to allow Class B commercial stations to voluntarily reclassify as C2 facilities (in Zone I) and accept 60 dBu protection in lieu of the present 54 dBu standard. If WFME could take this option, the move appears completely legal, and both WPST and WMAS would benefit from less interference (especially during tropo openings).

For another example of the absurdity of the present rule, note that the recent FCC decision allowing IBOC power increases makes no distinction between Class B (or B1) commercial stations and any other class; the predicted first-adjacent interference is determined at the 60 dBu contour of the affected station in all cases.

 

[yossefgershon]

Press may not be able to buy 94.7 because----it may not have the $----overlap with 107.1 and 106.3----it may not be interested in getting into the heart of the NY market.

 

[badjef]

94.7 will move. I have very little doubt about that.
Initially, it may run reduced power, but the harder thing would be the move.

If Cumulus purchases the frequency, then the move will be much easier. Don't be surprised to see them try to move WMAS so as to fall out from under the short spaced concerns.

I can't stress the importance of those frequencies enough. Where do you think 100.3 was before Empire? And why did it move?

100.3 was an easier move since they did not have the same short spacing issues. By moving to
Empire, they moved FURTHER from the co-channel in Media, PA. Moving WFME to Empire worsens an already short-spaced situation.
Plus, what about second adjacent stations like 95.1 in Brookfield/Danbury, CT and 94.3 in Smithtown, NY?

100.3 had 1st adjacent short-spacing issues with WRCH.
The move allowed WJRZ to move their antenna, 9 miles north, from Manahawkin to Forked River so as to cover Northern Ocean County better.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[Play Freebird]

100.3 had 1st adjacent short-spacing issues with WRCH.
The move allowed WJRZ to move their antenna, 9 miles north, from Manahawkin to Forked River so as to cover Northern Ocean County better.

Correct, but the 100.3 move to Empire took place in the early '80s when 73.213 specified "mileage brackets" to determine allowable power -- and in this particular case, WHTZ was allowed 50 kW/500 ft towards WRCH, because the distance from Empire remained greater than 80 miles. The 73.213 rule has been changed at least three times since then.

Back then, the FCC also allowed short-spaced licensees to enter agreements to disregard the brackets and accept mutual interference, which explains why WHTZ is able to operate with full facilities toward 100.3 in Media, PA, and why WCBS-FM has full power towards WBEB. Same deal with WKXW vs. WPDH on 101.5, but it took several years for the license of WKXW to "discover" that a mutual agreement had been signed years earlier with the Poughkeepsie people! An application was then filed to substitute a nondirectional antenna for WKXW's original DA on the WNJT tower.

There are numerous mutually-negotiated chains of short-spacings in the northeast corridor; for example 105.1 in New York -- Ephrata, PA -- Williamsport, PA -- Alexandria, VA, which also includes an agreement with 105.3 in Philadelphia. Also, 104.1 in Allentown and Harrisburg.

Today, the process is much more complicated. The FCC no longer wants to accept mutual agreements, but it wouldn't surprise me if that rule is revised once again.

 

[BillWasHere]

Family Radio has a note program that pays high interest rates. It’s possible note holders are reacting to the failed end of the world predictions by Harold Camping, and no longer believe their money is safe at Family Radio at any interest rate and are pulling out tens of millions of dollars. That would explain the sales of WKDN and WFSI, with the looming sale of their money maker WFME. Selling their flagship station for NYC and the region seems like an act of financial desperation. Family Radio should explain what they’re doing publicly so investors don’t all jump ship…even that might not do any good. Who would believe Harold Camping, Family Radio’s president and general manager?