Favorite Radio Personality In The Pittsburgh Market-Past Or Present

[kenhawk1160]

Lee...glad you decided to jump in. Great to hear from you. Are you still in the biz?

Hi Ken,

I've worked for Keymarket the past five years. I had been "retired" since 1996, but they called me out of the blue in '02 and asked if I wanted to do a couple shifts.

So much for "never again."

LeeS.

Never say never...especially in this industry. I assume you're working for Froggy...what name have they assigned you?

 

[Lee_Sackett]

Never say never...especially in this industry.

Yeah, but it's funny being the one who could have told them "No"! I never sent a T&R; it's just that someone there knew me and had my number.

I assume you're working for Froggy...what name have they assigned you?

I chose David Hopperfield as my Frog Name...ironically, so did our new PD when he came into town.

 

[kenhawk1160]

Never say never...especially in this industry.

Yeah, but it's funny being the one who could have told them "No"! I never sent a T&R; it's just that someone there knew me and had my number.

I assume you're working for Froggy...what name have they assigned you?

I chose David Hopperfield as my Frog Name...ironically, so did our new PD when he came into town.

Cute...I'll have to listen.

 

[JJSOLOMON]

I personally liked Jimmy Jamm of 104.7 THe Beat... or JJ SOLOMON of the BREAKFAST JAM at WAMO...

wait, I'm Biased...

[EDIT]

Not counting me... J.J. Stone (WAMO 1993 Night Show host), D.C. Taylor - Mix Jamz Night Show Host, Tony Q. Foxx Mix Jamz 100.7 Afternoon Show Host., Real Deal Mike Neal, B94.

[EDIT-TOS violation for service disruption]

 

[RickStarr]

OK, so I'm a year and change late to the discussion, so what? I stumbled across this and thought I would throw in my two cents, which may be worth a bit more since I was the General Manager at the time when much of this Doug Hoerth/Michelle Madoff/Jack Bogut/John Cigna stuff was going on. I'm Rick Starr. Nice to meet you.

I was Program Director at KDKA in the 70's, but I was at the Westinghouse station in Boston when Jack Bogut made the decision to leave KDKA for WTAE around 1983 or so. I was called back to Pittsburgh because of that, and I (with concordance of others) made the decision to put Cigna in the morning. That left a gaping hole at night, about to be made larger because Roy Fox was leaving, either under his own steam or ours (details some other time.)

I honestly forget the exact sequence of events (it's been 25 years!), but I recall trying Doug in John's time slot (9p-midnight) and it didn't work. I thought Doug talented then, I think so now, but the audience did not accept his schtick and the ratings suffered. (That is all relative, of course, the program was still #1 in the time slot, but it was declining...) I may have been influenced by the success of Larry Glick at our Boston station, who did a similar "light-hearted" program and who garnered shares in the 40's, but I digress.

At some point Fox left and was replaced by Michelle Madoff. We got what we expected in terms of notoriety and attention, but she was not successful as a talk show host. OK, that's being kind, the program was pretty bad. We had "tried her out" as a guest host several times and it was good, but we didn't notice that she was weak on national and international issues, which are an important component of it all. She was asked to resign, although it was presented as "her decision."

To replace her we hired Mike Levine, but he had lost a lot of steam in the many years since he'd left the station, and his program proved lethargic and the ratings continued down. Mike, as I recall, was hired for 6p-10p, and we moved Perry Marshall from 10p-2a. I may be mistaken, but I kind of remember that's when Doug Hoerth came in, from 2a-6a, to fill the hours.

Perry complained, the audience complained (about Perry's hours) and we wanted to cut back Mike's hours, so the schedule changed to Mike 6-9, Doug 9-12, and Perry back on the overnights. The audience, as I have indicated, did not take to Doug and we were eventually forced to make a decision to let him go. It had nothing to do with his personality or anything else other than ratings. He had a dedicated band of listeners - and they were vocal - but we were trying to fill a 35-share show, and Doug was a 20-share host. Simple as that. (20-share, BTW, would make you rich these days.)

So that's that. As I say, if my memory has failed I'd appreciate a correction, I could be wrong about some of the sequence.

As for some other comments, let me just say that Doug was a bit moody. If you ran into him in a restaurant he might be grumpy, as we all are, or he might be as happy as you can imagine. That's just how it it. As for Bogut, he was one of the most professional broadcasters I ever worked with. And one of the most difficult. He spent little time preparing his show (he didn't really need to), and he arrived in a flurry at 6:05am, just as the news was ending, and we were always on pins and needles hoping he'd make it in time. (Several times he did not.) That said, his "programming" instincts were among the best I ever saw, and he was very infrequently wrong. (His decision to leave KDKA was the worst he ever made, bar none.)

I happen to love John Cigna, so any comments will be given with a grain of salt. He was another super-talent at the station, and was also sometimes difficult to deal with. My wife was his show producer, so we have many stories. That said, his instincts were also spot on, and I have nothing but respect for him.

Bob Logue was a delight, both on air and off. Easy going, easy to deal with, always upbeat. Bill Steinbach was great, but kept to himself in the newsroom, mostly. Uncle Ed was there during my first tour, but had seen better days, and had retired by the time I returned as GM. Thank goodness. Nice man. Totally overstayed his welcome. Who have I forgotten? Oh, Fred Honsberger. Always opinionated, which is what I valued. He wasn't afraid to tell me if he thought I was wrong. I'm the same way, so we had many good fights. I love him, too, although I abhor his politics, but what can you do? Fred was in the newsroom, no, he's a talk show host! No, I need him back on the morning show! No! He's anchoring 90-to-6 this week! No...

Oh, and Roy Fox. Another great talent, but he got tired of the grind and started getting out of control. I had many good discussions with him, personal political and otherwise, but he finally popped a cork on the air and that had to be dealt with. I was waiting to meet him one Friday night to fire him after his show, when he burst out with "a plan" to leave. He and his wife-to-be "Mary" would get married on the air and then ride off into the sunset. How could I miss? It was a promotion made in heaven, made all the better by not having to fire a popular host. I said "yes." Roy calmed down. The wedding went off. Or rather "on", as in "on the air", and that was that.

Ah, I should mention Chris Cross. He was my programming assistant at WBZ in Boston. I brought him to Pittsburgh to help out, and as it turns out he was also a good talk show host. He did fill-in, and it was his idea to hire Michelle Madoff. I'm not pointing fingers, I said yes to that one. It was also his idea to bring back Bob Prince. And I said yes to that one, too, after some lengthy and difficult fights with upper Westinghouse management. My biggest mistake was probably not just putting him in the Cigna slot and settling down, but while making the right move in the morning (with Cigna), I made a series of wrong moves at night and couldn't leave well enough alone. Luckily morning is about 90% of the success of a station, but I always regret not managing the night programming better.

Great times. Perhaps the best of my life. Oh, and I married that John Cigna producer I talked about. 20-some years later, we're still together. Living in Knoxville, TN. No kids, 4 cats, 1 dog. Thanks for asking.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

You can't leave out Bubba The Love Sponge from this thread . He is/was great in Pittsburgh

 

[bobes6]

Rick Starr. Is it possible to relive the Bob Prince and Nellie King dismissals and search and eventual replacement hirings? Thanks.

 

[Boss Radio]

Bill Hartman was the GM of KDKA when the Prince/King firings happened. Rick Starr was probably in college then.

 

[Parttimer]

I was fortunate enough to have an interview with Rick while I was in college forthe producer job on Bogut's show. The spot went to a classmate of mine from Pitt, Judy Yanke, who eventually became KD's Program Director. (You could pretty much do a who's who of Pittsburgh radio from people who got jobs I interviewed for...)

 

[Boss Radio]

I don't know what the shifts were at the time, but Hoerth was fired to make room for Michelle Madoff. Doug was called into the office Friday afternoon and told he was done. Madoff debuted on the 6 to 8 shift on Monday, March 11, 1985.

Eventually Mike Pintek was put on the show with her to try and smooth things out. When she was done, Pintek took over.

 

[RickStarr]

Rick Starr. Is it possible to relive the Bob Prince and Nellie King dismissals and search and eventual replacement hirings? Thanks.

As someone upthread noted, I came to the station in 1977; the Prince controversy and replacement was already done by that time. The main guy was Milo Hamilton, his sidekick this Frattare guy. Milo was a piece of work, alright. Lanny was an insecure little guy who barely said boo. I never liked Milo, and it wasn't because he replaced Prince, it was just because. Everybody liked Lanny (sounds like a sitcom, eh?), mostly because he had to put up with Milo, I think. (Nah, he was a good guy. Really.)

I said in another thread (I think) that Chris Cross came up with the idea of bringing back Bob Prince in 1985, the year when the Pirates were at their nadir and we were groping for something, anything to help the team. (It wasn't going to be some silly promotion like 'green weenies', that's for sure.) Chris and I were driving to a client ski party and he pitched it to me in the car, just shooting crazy ideas. I looked at him and said "Are you working me?" He grinned, paused, and said "Yeah." "OK," I replied, "go on."

It was impossible, of course. Prince had stepped on everybody's toes on the way out (the WEEP parade didn't help) and had been fired with malice; he'd told the GM (Bill Hartmann) and Regional VP (Ed Wallis) to pound sand, he'd embarrassed the station in front of clients, the list was endless, so there was no chance that Westinghouse would have him back. Worse, the Pirates hated him, too. As did the sponsors.

So after deciding it was just crazy enough that it might work, we visited the team - then in turmoil and with new people in most postions, and after being told "it's impossible" and running through I don't know how many of their own internal meetings they said "Oh, go ahead. How could it get any worse?"

A check of the client list showed most of the sponsors he'd pissed off were gone anyway, including (and especially) Iron City. Budweiser was now our biggest single sponsor. And then I made the pitch to our corporate overlords in New York, - who WERE the same people, and I was about thrown out of the room. No, that's not an exaggeration.

But I asked for them to finish hearing the pitch, which included something to the effect "and it's so bad the team might leave the city to get a fresh start somewhere." Well. Apparently (conjecture on my part) there were phone calls between Westinghouse Broadcasting HQ in New York and Westinghouse Electric HQ in Pittsburgh, where they found I wasn't kidding, and I was invited to make the pitch again, to more receptive ears.

And I did, and they said yes, and only then did I contact Bob Prince. Only to find out that he was in the hospital recovering from cancer surgery. Talk about a moment: I was sure I had ruined my career, getting so many pissed-ON executives to give me the green light only to find out that the idea was verklempt in the first place.

I believe Chris Cross may have known all about this part, I've never asked him, but I suspect he had had conversations with Bob to make sure he would do it. Anyway, I visited him in the hospital where I had a sidebar conversation with Bob's doctor, who assured me that the surgery had been successful, that Bob would recover, that he would be "weak" for some time, but that there was no reason he couldn't do "some announcing" if he watched himself.

Long story short (too late), we made the deal and paid him a pittance (it didn't matter to Bob, he would have come free), and Bob returned to announce "the middle three". Our first vision had been that he would do "the middle three" at all games, but the sickness made that impossible; travel would be just too taxing, so it became "the middle three" at home games. He performed barely well that first night, but it didn't matter, the team coming up with a welcome back salute never to be forgotten. Bob's performance declined after that, but I didn't personally see him getting weaker until the night of his last broadcast (about a month later, IIRC), when a rain delay forced us all to sit around waiting, waiting, waiting... He became so weak it was apparent he wouldn't be back.

I don't know if that doctor was just zoomin' me so Bob could have one last ride around the track (and Bob would have told the Doc to say so, I'm sure), or whether he was just mistaken, but that's what transpired.

The Gunner died in the hospital some days later, with his wife and Chris Cross at his side. I was outside, a fitting place for me given the dynamic, and Chris was bedside, an even more fitting finale given what he had done. I am conflicted in all the aftermath. I guess it was good that he got his final hurrah, having given so much to so many (charitable and otherwise), but I wondered if our exploitation of the situation (and there is no other way to say it) hastened his demise. I suspect he would have done it anyway, and gladly.

I am happy to have known him and had some part in the episode - and now to relate it here. (I'm about to be off the net for a couple weeks as I travel to Boston to rehab a condo we still own there, so this will have to suffice, at least for now. I'll try to check in late in December if there are any followups.)

 

[Pratte4Life]

Great stuff Rick. Thank you.

However, I would like you to elaborate on a few points.

Prince had been calling Pirates games on cable TV in the early '80s prior to being brought back by KDKA. Admittedly, cable was in its infancy, but I would assume the Bucs had to give approval for their cable announcers.

As such, how would Prince have been "hated" by the Pirates?

Question two- You mention he'd pissed off Iron City. And I know when Prince was fired bars quit serving Iron City in 1975.

Personally, I think this may have been the start of the demise of Iron City, though that is just a personal theory.

However, I can tell you I would listen to KDKA in spring of 1985 and I would hear Bob Prince doing Iron City beer ads. While it's true they did not sponsor the Bucs, they did sponsor "John Cigna and The K Team" (side note- when "The A Team" was taken off NBC, did you ever think the name of your morning show was dated?).

Do you know anything about that "burned bridge" being repaired?

Third- Did Greg Brown play any role in bringing Prince back? Brown was the director of Pirates broadcasting back then and did the vocals for the promotional spots on the broadcasts (I remember one distinctly- "The Drive For Five in '85" regarding four-time batting champ Bill Madlock. Madlock hit .275 in '85). But here was a young guy who grew up listening to Prince call games- one would think he would be very enthusiastic about Prince's return.

Did Lanny, who always was grateful for Prince helping him get a start in broadcasting and arranged for Frattare to call an inning of play-by-play for the Pirates in '74 or '75 when Lanny was calling Charleston Charlies games, help Prince return at all?

Four- Why did Cross not last longer? He had an enjoyable show, and what I really hated about Levine following up the Pirates games in the late '80s and for quite some time afterwards (until John Corby and then Thor Tolo did a post-game call-in show) was you couldn't call in and talk about the ballgame you'd just heard. Levine and Pintak just didn't know anything about baseball.

Personal opinion- I think Jim Leyland's reputation was aided by the fact that early in his career when the Bucs were still losing, there WASN'T a call-in show. There weren't fans calling up saying "I can't believe that move he made- this yokel is clueless- we need someone with more experience and a name in the dugout"- etc.

Chuck Tanner got PLENTY of that at the end on KDKA, but Leyland didn't because the talk show hosts talked about anything BUT baseball after the game.

Five- What took you so long to go all talk? Even by 1990, KDKA was a split-format with music during the day.

Six- No, okay, I think I'll stop. But thank you so much for posting and, by the way, we all love a guy who uses the word "verklempt."

 

[pghfmradiosucks]

Rick,
Very interesting posts. Thank you.That is exactly what this board needs more of. People who have worked in the industry and who will post "all the inside show business stuff" to paraphrase the great Doug Hoerth.Don't be a stranger. Your insight and stories are always welcome.

 

[radiomayor2]

Rick.......WOW.....

are you still in radio AT ALL.......

you were brought back to p burgh at a very rough time......

i seem to recall another reason you were brought back was there were stricty orders not to let j carl bogut go to WTAE and the GM previous to you didn't get it done!!!!!

you certainly sheperded a great change that ended up, all in all, working out well.

you certailnly bring back a memory of a radio group that had a great plan...until it was sold......the training..the opportunity were there if you wanted to take advantage of it...

hope you continue to chime in from time to time

 

[kenhawk1160]

Rick...great to hear from you. I still remember the fun Cigna and the K-Team had with your editorials in the days when John first took over the morning show. "The Generalissimo", they referred to you as, I recall. One day they had a big fanfare before the editorial aired...with Marvin "Goose" Goslin giving a play-by-play of you walking down the red carpet, with attendants holding your train while doing so...great theatre of the mind stuff, where irreverance was actually delivered in a somewhat classy manner.

 

[Boss Radio]

There are a few discrepancies in the Prince story:

*Prince was on good terms with Iron City by 1985. The brewery used him in commercials in the early '80s and he was their goodwill ambassador as well. Ebay consistently has promo photos of Prince that were issued with the Iron City and IC Light logos on them. Those were handed out at appearances he made for the brewery.

*Prince was fine with the Pirates by then, too. As noted, he was hired in 1982 to do games on cable. Nelson Goldberg had started some sort of cable enterprise. It would eventually become HSE, but I don't think that's what it was called then. They were doing games by late '82, because I recall they did Willie Stargell's final game. Stargell did some color commentary later, as did Steve Blass and Dave Giusiti. In fact, Blass moved to the regular broadcast team because of his work on the cable broadcasts.

*The way the whole return scenario came about is Lanny Frattare suggested that KDKA start a campaign to get Prince the Hall of Fame award. From there, someone -- probably Chris Cross -- said let's put him on the air, much to the objection of Frattare. But it eventually led to that. Prince was only able to work one weekend. He worked a May 3 game against the Dodgers in which the Pirates had a big comeback. He was unable to work again, although he did report for a game that was delayed a long time by rain. He died a few weeks later, on June 10. He was given the Hall of Fame award posthumously in 1986.

 

[Parttimer]

I was at that game. My recollection is that Prince may have only done an inning, as the game had been delayed, and then the Pirates scored 9 runs in the bottom of the 4th when he was on. Their at-bat probably lasted 30 minutes.

The crowd realized at the third out that it had been the Gunner's inning and there was quite an ovation directed at the booth. Based on the time of night and the length of the inning I believe that was all he did.

 

[Pratte4Life]

Part, actually he did call the three. I was listening.

What I remember is that even after the 9-run fourth, the game had had everything but a home run.

Well, Jason Thompson, the Bucs' power hitter of the day, comes up and Prince says something along the lines of "Okay Jason, you just pick one out and bomb it" to set the stage.

It was the mark of a good announcer setting up drama- not so easy in a lopsided game.

And, you guessed it, J-T hits the homer.

If I recall- Lanny and The Rook just started going nuts. "YOU CALLED IT! YOU CALLED IT!"

And The Gunner, with a wink that you could see on the radio, says confidently-

"KISS IT GOODBYE!"

Another thing I recall- Lanny ended the broadcast with both "There Was- Noooooo Doubt About It" and "We Had 'Em All the Way."

Remember what I said about sportscasters being the most beloved broadcasters?

 

[Boss Radio]

One point to remember about Bogut: Swapping 50kw at KDKA for WTAE's sketchy 5kw was, indeed, a monumental mistake. But a big part of his decision to leave was Hearst's willingness to give him a television show, which they did. He did one of those morning service-type shows, right at the time those were disappearing and being replaced by syndicated stuff like "Regis and Whomever." Later, Hearst also helped Bogut make a couple of attempts to translate his "Big Sky Cafe" stuff into a TV series. So it wasn't just a radio decision.

I remember the news coverage of his move, and there was tape of John Conomikes and Ted Atkins popping open champagne bottles.

I think people have come to realize that morning listening is really driven by station more than personality, especially among older demos. Wally Phillips always got huge numbers in the morning at WGN. He wanted an easier schedule and switched to afternoons. The morning show kept chugging along without him, and he flopped in the afternoon. He flopped to the point that they took him off the air. He wound up playing out his contract doing some weekend shifts.

 

[Parttimer]

I recall my mom having me find WTAE on the dial for her when Bogut moved. She listened for a about a week, decided she couldn't stand Cope's commentaries, and went back to KDKA. Forever.

And to Boss' point about it being more about station than personality, I cite the continued success of the DVE morning show after Paulsen departed.