FCC Says No to Appeal for a New AM in L.A.

[davideduardo]

Looking at this from a different perspective; southern California is probably the largest market for EVs in the nation. And, from what I understand, battery/electric power doesn't play well with the AM band. From what I've heard, Tesla doesn't even offer AM reception in their sound systems. So, a 1,000 watt AM at the high end of the dial is a tough enough sell anywhere. But you're talking about an incredibly competitive and spread out market where much of your potential audience can't possibly even find you. Unless they have plans for an FM translator, this idea is doomed to failure.

Any new top of the dial AM would have to be programmed for a special segment of the audience, and in LA that is likely a non-English speaking segment and in particular Asian languages. The current cost of electrical vehicles and the small percentage on the road at present means that this is not a consideration for people who would listen to a station in Tagalog or Lao or some other language.

In any case, even with a translator, the market is so spread out that few stations cover it all... even the Mt Wilson FMs have considerable difficulty in the Lancaster / Palmdale area. So a translator might overcome the disadvantages of the lack of AM in new electrical vehicles, it is not going to cover much more of the market geographically... and the dial is so covered with signals that a decent translator is unlikely or it would already have been snagged.

 

[DrAkbar]

Unless they have plans for an FM translator, this idea is doomed to failure.

Shot down, too. Even with one watt, the proposed translator caused problems for KBUE and the FCC dismissed the application. What keeps this going remains a mystery... maybe the Crazy Ed Stolz influence still lives at 15~Hundred?

 

[DrAkbar]

As I suggested in a previous post, a solution would to be to diplex off of 1260 in the SFV. Even KMZT's pattern is very similar to 1500's original back in the day. 5 to 10 kW probably could be used.

Can't get that kind of power with first and second adjacents. KWIF had to contend with KSPA 15~Ten Ontario and KOSJ 14~Ninety Santa Barbara. KWIF was purposely shoehorned to cover Culver City as a Class B with little signal going elsewhere. 15~Hundred's coverage will never be like it was in the KBLA/KROQ days.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

Can't get that kind of power with first and second adjacents. KWIF had to contend with KSPA 15~Ten Ontario and KOSJ 14~Ninety Santa Barbara. KWIF was purposely shoehorned to cover Culver City as a Class B with little signal going elsewhere. 15~Hundred's coverage will never be like it was in the KBLA/KROQ days.

ACtually, one of KWIF's biggest issues was KVNR 1480.

 

[KilowattKat]

The Long & Winding Road that's gone nowhere for decades. The last application (with tower site #3) was for 400 watts day, 170 night. Poor Culver City...no AM station to call its own!

Maybe someone will resurrect with a new CP!

The Long & Winding Road that's gone nowhere for decades. The last application (with tower site #3) was for 400 watts day, 170 night. Poor Culver City...no AM station to call its own!

😢

 

[Signal Geek]

Can't get that kind of power with first and second adjacents. KWIF had to contend with KSPA 15~Ten Ontario and KOSJ 14~Ninety Santa Barbara. KWIF was purposely shoehorned to cover Culver City as a Class B with little signal going elsewhere. 15~Hundred's coverage will never be like it was in the KBLA/KROQ days.

I guess this is a moot point, but why couldn't AM 1500 just broadcast from their old towers on Verdugo Mountain, with 10kw or whatever power/pattern they used in the early 80s? Weren't the adjacent channel stations existing back then? I know mountaintops are crummy sites for AM's, but wouldn't that still be better than the tiny wattage in the last application? When I looked up at the mountain recently, it appears the towers are still there...

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

I guess this is a moot point, but why couldn't AM 1500 just broadcast from their old towers on Verdugo Mountain, with 10kw or whatever power/pattern they used in the early 80s? Weren't the adjacent channel stations existing back then? I know mountaintops are crummy sites for AM's, but wouldn't that still be better than the tiny wattage in the last application? When I looked up at the mountain recently, it appears the towers are still there...

protection rules have changed since.... and you cant have a grandfathered signal disappear and get the same protections back

 

[Signal Geek]

Can't get that kind of power with first and second adjacents. KWIF had to contend with KSPA 15~Ten Ontario

But hasn't KSPA 1510 been off the air for quite a while now? Would KWIF still have to protect that non-existent signal?

 

[Signal Geek]

protection rules have changed since.... and you cant have a grandfathered signal disappear and get the same protections back

Why would AM protection rules have been tightened up, when they've been loosened significantly on the FM band (i.e. tons of translators being shoehorned in everywhere, sometimes stepping on legacy signals)?

 

[PTBoardOp94]

The FCC's decisions don't have to be logically consistent. But, in fact protection rules for FM in fact were not changed - except to permit AM stations and HD channels to operate translators, which put translators into higher demand.

KSPA is still licensed, so it must still be protected. If the license is deleted, that will change.

 

[Signal Geek]

The FCC's decisions don't have to be logically consistent. But, in fact protection rules for FM in fact were not changed - except to permit AM stations and HD channels to operate translators, which put translators into higher demand.

KSPA is still licensed, so it must still be protected. If the license is deleted, that will change.

Thanks for that clarification.

 

[DrAkbar]

KSPA lost its site and has a valid STA for 10 watts non-directional. Prior to losing the site, they had a CP to increase night power from 1kw to 6kw using four sticks. Bet that never happens as the cost far outweighs the benefit.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Looking at this from a different perspective; southern California is probably the largest market for EVs in the nation. And, from what I understand, battery/electric power doesn't play well with the AM band.

Couldn't prove it by me. I drive a 2015 Smart EV and the AM side of its radio doesn't get electrical interference.

 

[DrAkbar]

I guess this is a moot point, but why couldn't AM 1500 just broadcast from their old towers on Verdugo Mountain, with 10kw or whatever power/pattern they used in the early 80s? ... When I looked up at the mountain recently, it appears the towers are still there...

Some of them are, some aren't. Scott Fybush's bunker report is an interesting read: A selection from a decade of visits to tower and studio sites in the Northeast and beyond

 

[Miss Tuned]

Any new top of the dial AM would have to be programmed for a special segment of the audience, and in LA that is likely a non-English speaking segment and in particular Asian languages. The current cost of electrical vehicles and the small percentage on the road at present means that this is not a consideration for people who would listen to a station in Tagalog or Lao or some other language.

Even those of us who don't own such a vehicle are affected. My days listening to AM are few and far between now, but when I am listening in-car and an EV passes, the station disappears under electrical noise. If I'm following or being followed by an EV, the noise sticks around until one of us goes another route. The more EVs, the more noise - in areas with a lot of them, it's going to be impossible to listen to AM in the near future.

It may even be the case that for EVs that do include an AM radio, the radio is shielded from the interference - while those outside the vehicle aren't so lucky.

 

[30james]

Any new top of the dial AM would have to be programmed for a special segment of the audience, and in LA that is likely a non-English speaking segment and in particular Asian languages. The current cost of electrical vehicles and the small percentage on the road at present means that this is not a consideration for people who would listen to a station in Tagalog or Lao or some other language.

In any case, even with a translator, the market is so spread out that few stations cover it all... even the Mt Wilson FMs have considerable difficulty in the Lancaster / Palmdale area. So a translator might overcome the disadvantages of the lack of AM in new electrical vehicles, it is not going to cover much more of the market geographically... and the dial is so covered with signals that a decent translator is unlikely or it would already have been snagged.

Your right about Palmdale I live out in palmdale I know first hand what you are saying

 

[TomásEstefan]

I guess this is a moot point, but why couldn't AM 1500 just broadcast from their old towers on Verdugo Mountain, with 10kw or whatever power/pattern they used in the early 80s? Weren't the adjacent channel stations existing back then? I know mountaintops are crummy sites for AM's, but wouldn't that still be better than the tiny wattage in the last application? When I looked up at the mountain recently, it appears the towers are still there...

Some of the towers are still there, but the original owner of the station after losing his license to the FCC, said; if "I" can't operate a radio station from this location, nobody can. He owned the site, and lost his license because of various technical violations. At one point his station sounded like it was transmitting close to 50% THD. As I said in another post, 1500 could be made to work by diplexing off of 1260, well within the current rules, and with reasonable power.

 

[DrAkbar]

As I said in another post, 1500 could be made to work by diplexing off of 1260, well within the current rules, and with reasonable power.

Dunno if that would work as 15~Hundred diplexed from Saul's site would send the signal south to provide city grade service to Culver City. That would cause even more interference to second adjacent KVNR 14~Eighty. All three previous sites proposed by KWIF were well south and east of KMZT's sticks.

 

[TomásEstefan]

Dunno if that would work as 15~Hundred diplexed from Saul's site would send the signal south to provide city grade service to Culver City. That would cause even more interference to second adjacent KVNR 14~Eighty. All three previous sites proposed by KWIF were well south and east of KMZT's sticks.

Toward Orange County they would only have to match KTYM 1460's signal right along the Orange/LA county line. This is a very similar contour that 1260 has. As far as Culver City goes, it doesn't really need "its own" radio station, as it's not a true cultural center. A better choice would be West Hollywood.

 

[KilowattKat]

Toward Orange County they would only have to match KTYM 1460's signal right along the Orange/LA county line. This is a very similar contour that 1260 has. As far as Culver City goes, it doesn't really need "its own" radio station, as it's not a true cultural center. A better choice would be West Hollywood.

With a COL of West Hollywood, maybe a community oriented LGBTQ format would work for the area, along with an FM translator with enough signal strength to cover the area.