Floor mats thrown in by dealer as compensation for HD radio in new BMW

[Carmine5]

HD Radio + BMW, a perfect marriage. Junk, over-priced technology meets junk, over-priced cars.

AAA gives the BMW a "worse than average" to "poor" (with an occasional glowing "average") rating almost throughout its entire line (the 528i being the lone exception).

Don't believe me? Check it out:

http://profiles.intellichoice.com/p...xYear=2010,New+Car&make=BMW&model=650&trim=-1

No wonder BMW owners are in a mood to sue.

c5

 

[tomservo]

HD Radio + BMW, a perfect marriage. Junk, over-priced technology meets junk, over-priced cars.

There are people who drive cars from point A to point B and see them as appliances. Those people care about reliability and practicality and don't care about anything else. Except cup holders.

Then there's the rest of us who enjoy driving. I don't own a Beemer and will probably never have the money for one, but I did buy a car with known faults and reliability issues because god, there's more to life than dull driving. My car has had a few headaches but it also puts a smile on my face the 99.9% of the time it works, which is more than I can say for any Toyota or Honda I've been in since the late 80's. (It's not even a sports car, either. In fact, overseas, it's considered the most bog standard boring car on the planet.)

This can be applied to radio, as well. HD's problem is that it isn't appliance-like enough yet. It doesn't "just work" like a Toyota, it's temperamental like a Land Rover. Except that even a Land Rover rewards its driver in off-road ability, when it works. HD just doesn't have enough going for it yet to put a smile on anyone's face.

 

[KB1OKL]

I'll bet a Land Rover owner wouldn't smile if it stopped dead on him in the middle of the road. I have a fun car too, it's American, has a 400 HP V8, rear wheel drive and a 6 speed and the Satellite works great along with the AM and FM, if Satellite dropped out 1/4 of the time HD does I would never have renewed it.

 

[Carmine5]

HD Radio + BMW, a perfect marriage. Junk, over-priced technology meets junk, over-priced cars.

There are people who drive cars from point A to point B and see them as appliances. Those people care about reliability and practicality and don't care about anything else. Except cup holders.

Then there's the rest of us who enjoy driving. I don't own a Beemer and will probably never have the money for one, but I did buy a car with known faults and reliability issues because god, there's more to life than dull driving. My car has had a few headaches but it also puts a smile on my face the 99.9% of the time it works, which is more than I can say for any Toyota or Honda I've been in since the late 80's. (It's not even a sports car, either. In fact, overseas, it's considered the most bog standard boring car on the planet.)

This can be applied to radio, as well. HD's problem is that it isn't appliance-like enough yet. It doesn't "just work" like a Toyota, it's temperamental like a Land Rover. Except that even a Land Rover rewards its driver in off-road ability, when it works. HD just doesn't have enough going for it yet to put a smile on anyone's face.

Well, BMWs are hardly Ferraris and many owners use them as daily drivers, albeit an expensive one. For that expense they have a right to expect a car that is both reliable as well as fun to drive. The sad fact is that BMWs rank low in reliability. According to Warranty Direct's 100 Most Reliable Cars, Beemers ranked #65 (3-series), #89 (X5) and #93 (5-series) for reliability. This means they're worse than the Fiat Punto (#50), Peugeot 406 (#86) and Renault Megane (#85). Not exactly stirling company (or is it sterling company?).

Add to it HD Radio and you have the perfect storm, as in firestorm, for consumer complaints. Of course, these lawyers are after the wrong target, it's really iBiquity they should be suing. But like grand dad used to say, you can't squeeze blood from a turnip and in a class-action lawsuit, iBiquity would fold like a paper airplane in a driving rain with consumers getting nothing in compensation.

BTW, you don't have to buy a "toaster oven on wheels" to get a reasonably-priced, reliable car that's fun to drive. The Mini is a great example of that. It ranked #16 in reliability which is very good. c5

 

[davideduardo]

AAA gives the BMW a "worse than average" to "poor" (with an occasional glowing "average") rating almost throughout its entire line (the 528i being the lone exception).

Other than the oddball configurations (AWD sport coupe), the principal models like the 335, 328, X5, and of course the 5 series do quite well in the evaluations... having tried several other "similar" marks, there is nothing with the same feel and handling.

 

[tomservo]

BTW, you don't have to buy a "toaster oven on wheels" to get a reasonably-priced, reliable car that's fun to drive. The Mini is a great example of that. It ranked #16 in reliability which is very good. c5

Yeaaah, I just priced one of those a few weeks back on their configurator. Avoiding all the go-faster stripes and Union Jack embellishments I still got a Cooper S up over $38,000 pretty easily. Not exactly affordable, that. They nickel and dime ya to death.

Mini's owned by BMW. Odd that it would do better than the mothership. And it had an HD radio, standard on the base radio and harmon/kardon upgrade.

 

[Savage]

Zach: congratulations! How apt: likening HD Radio to Land Rover!

My girlfriend had a 2004 Freelander. It went through three engines and two transmissions in 38,000 miles; all under warranty fortunately but still an incredible nuisance. The North American engine was a retrofitted gas V6 (the Euro version was diesel and couldn't pass American emissions standards) for which the term "Rube Goldberg" would be overly kind. The Rover was never taken off-road once in its life, but one day I was driving it and there was a loud clunking coming from the front of the car when I would accelerate or decelerate. The dealer discovered that the entire front suspension had simply loosened from the unibody. The freakin' thing could have killed all of us at expressway speeds.

We traded it for a new Honda CRV. We looked at trading it for a Jeep Patriot under "Cash For Clunkers," for which the Freelander qualified, but the sudden rush demand for vehicles meant she couldn't get the color she wanted, so we opted for the CRV. It was too bad: I wanted to personally pour the calcium silicate into the crankcase and floor the thing until Engine #3 was a hunk of useless fused steel and aluminum.

 

[Carmine5]

BTW, you don't have to buy a "toaster oven on wheels" to get a reasonably-priced, reliable car that's fun to drive. The Mini is a great example of that. It ranked #16 in reliability which is very good. c5

Yeaaah, I just priced one of those a few weeks back on their configurator. Avoiding all the go-faster stripes and Union Jack embellishments I still got a Cooper S up over $38,000 pretty easily. Not exactly affordable, that. They nickel and dime ya to death.

Mini's owned by BMW. Odd that it would do better than the mothership. And it had an HD radio, standard on the base radio and harmon/kardon upgrade.

Looking at the AAA price guidelines a base Cooper has a MSRP of $19,500. Add A/C, BlueTooth and a moon roof and it comes out to $21,000.00 list (dealer invoice is $19,420.00). HD Radio is still considered a $500.00 option, so you can easily save money there. So a Mini is affordable. Yes, BMW owns it but the Cooper has totally different drivetrains and is built in the U.K.

As already pointed out, it has long been known that the Rover is a dog (pun intended) which is too bad as I like the styling and its British heritage. Time will tell if the Indians (Tata Motors) can make it a better brand. c5

 

[ddsparxx]

That Freelander must have been as reliable as a Yugo!

The CRV is a good choice, and I don't think Honda has offered HD radio in any of its cars. My guess is Honda know that HD radio is a dog.

 

[Play Freebird]

Zach: congratulations! How apt: likening HD Radio to Land Rover!

In South Africa, people call them Rand Lovers because they cost so much to operate and maintain. A striking parallel with you know what.

 

[JohnnyElectron]

Buy a Volvo instead. Pregnant friend working midnight shift, driving home from work, fell sleep at wheel, head-on into telephone pole. Pole down, car totalled, Not a scratch on her, baby is fine, pissed that her boss would not have her on dayshift while preggo. No HD radio, but cards are damn HD - as in HeavyDuty!
I'm ticked that car makers as kissing Apple's arse - my 2010 Nissan lease vehicle has NO HD, and NO XM anymore; instead a cable that hooks directly into your iPoddy. I don't have time to f with an iPod - I want music variety over the air; only bright spot on Nissan midline radio: RDS on FM is decent.

 

[magicjellybeans]

Oh well, that should be easy to find given the inherent simplicity and user-friendliness of iDrive! :

And you thought HD Radio was a mess! ;D ;D ;D

Really! Do you own a BMW? If so, then please explain how difficult you find the iDrive to use.

Some people just dont like the same things others do.What is so hard to believe he doesnt own a BMW?

 

[TVradioguru]

Some people just dont like the same things others do.What is so hard to believe he doesnt own a BMW?

There are some on this site, as in the original poster talking about some made up story of floor mats in trade for HD Radio, or claims as to the operation of the BMW I-Drive, with no actual knowledge of the incident (that is if it even actually happened), or operation of a vehicle. They write in brief with such conviction, yet site no examples of how or why they have reached the opinion. It's not that their view is wrong, assuming they actually had knowledge of the car. I was just inquiring as to how they reached the conclusion because neither myself or my friends, have had any complaints on operating our I-Drives.

Go back and read the thread. Just because I have a BMW with run-flat tires, they are deemed somehow 'inferior' over a traditional full size spare. I'm just saying it is disingenuous to come off as having first-hand knowledge if you don't.

 

[mmnassour]

That's something with which I completely agree, I was simply relating my own experience.

The run flats are an excellent example. The very ride characteristics that may cause some to consider them "inferior" may be exactly what another person needs.

As far as HD Radio is concerned, it's obvious that it has been sold to the high-end auto brands in the same way that satellite originally was, that it is a premium product and a cheap (for the manufacturer) way to add value to the vehicle. The LAST thing a manufacturer wants is a long list of complaints from dealers that have customers screaming that their four-figure radios don't work.

Hence...this thread.

 

[KB1OKL]

Some people just dont like the same things others do.What is so hard to believe he doesnt own a BMW?

There are some on this site, as in the original poster talking about some made up story of floor mats in trade for HD Radio, or claims as to the operation of the BMW I-Drive, with no actual knowledge of the incident (that is if it even actually happened)

I never claimed to have first hand knowledge of the incident, I read it and posted it here.
How do you know it is a made up story? Sounds very plausible to me. Salesmen will do just about anything to minimize negative things about a car during a sale and we all know that a radio which drops out constantly in a $60,000 car is not a good thing.

 

[8638]

I live about 40 miles due west of Boston and have never gotten an FM station to lock without dropouts, the most easily received and the most consistent was WGBH, a 100KW NPR station and yes this one drops out too although not as frequently as the others.
I received at most 4-5 at in succession on a very good day here after the leaves fell off the trees. I get WSRS which is less than 10 miles from here and in IBOC it sounds WORSE than in analog not pretty much the same like the rest but worse. WBZ AM is just about non-existent in IBOC here but I've heard enough to know just how bad AM IBOC sounds and it's the only AM IBOC station I've ever received, and WTAG, a 5 KW AMer which is less than 10 miles from me has never been received in glorious IBOC on my Sony tuner. This station pegs the tuning meters on just about every radio I've got. I use a C Crane twin ferrite antenna for AM with the tuner and AM IBOC is just about non existent except for wide swaths of hash which of course go halfway across the country, the light does light up though

In a part of the country with class B stations, I wouldn't expect any digital lock or quiet stereo at 40 miles. You're right on the fringes of coverage, anyway, for most radios, and certainly outside the sphere of advertising, I'm sure. Maybe Boston is different.

As for the WGBH station, remember it's grandfathered in; that does not protect the station from anything better than normal class B interference standards, so I wouldn't expect their HD signal to protected that far out, either. 40 miles out would be somewhere like Auburn, which wouldn't be in the Boston market at all, would it?

Well, I certainly would expect both at 40 miles from a properly engineered full class B, unless severe terrain is an issue. I'm 58 miles out from both NYC and Philadelphia, and get reasonably quiet stereo, tolerable to my 50 year old ears, from most of the full powered B's out of both cities. HD, however, is always hit or miss. Of late, the NYC HD's rarely lock (FM's). On AM, only WFAN and WOR lock, and that is sporadic and exclusively daytime only. No Philly AM's lock. A few of the FM's lock, but not consistently. This poses the question: who is going to use a service that is not reliable? I don't know from day to day which HD's will work. I know, barring extreme tropo or e-skip, that analog will work every time I turn the set on. This does not bode well for the future of HD radio. At least Quad FM and C-quam AM stereo worked!

I don't regret buying the little Sony tuner, though. It's a great little analog machine!

 

[davideduardo]

How do you know it is a made up story? Sounds very plausible to me. Salesmen will do just about anything to minimize negative things about a car during a sale and we all know that a radio which drops out constantly in a $60,000 car is not a good thing.

I know it is made up because all models that come with HD standard come with floor mats standard, too. The idea that a consumer would be offered "free floor mats" indicates to me that the story is false from the get-go.

I am on my second BMW with HD; neither drops out "constantly" and on both AM and FM the fold back only happens in very fringe areas and is as seemless as FM stereo folding to mono under similar situations.

Thus: not plausible.

 

[TVradioguru]

I never claimed to have first hand knowledge of the incident, I read it and posted it here.
How do you know it is a made up story? Sounds very plausible to me. Salesmen will do just about anything to minimize negative things about a car during a sale and we all know that a radio which drops out constantly in a $60,000 car is not a good thing.

Just out of curiosity, where did you originally read about this incident?

I was at the local BMW dealer getting an oil change last week. While waiting for my car, I asked the sales manager if she had heard of any clients who specifically complained about HD radio in BMW's. She thought a moment and couldn't recall any. I then asked if all BMWs came with floor mats standard. The sales manager immediately responded with a yes, even the new one series comes with floor mats standard. After she gave me a rather puzzled look as to why I asked those specific questions, I explained that someone had made the claim that a pair of floormats were used to placate a customer who wasn't happy with HD Radio. The sales manager nodded in understanding and said.."Well you know how it goes, you can't believe everything you read on the Internet"! How true.

 

[Savage]

Among other things on the internet, I've read these laffers: (a) Benjamin Franklin was one of the first Presidents of the US, and (b) HD Radio not only works, it makes FM 'CD quality' and AM 'FM quality.'

And IBOC doesn't cause adjacent channel or co-channel interference. And Grand Fenwick has adopted HD as the digital standard for radio.....and.....and.....

 

[Carmine5]

And Grand Fenwick has adopted HD as the digital standard for radio.....and.....and.....

...and by no less then the Duchy herself.

Since you opened the door for discussing HD Radio adoption in other countries, we have this article in Infosat which announces that efforts to bring HD Radio to Switzerland have died. Apparently for the Swiss to adopt a digital standard would have meant compromising their principles of neutrality.

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/...=http://www.infosat.de/Meldungen/?msgID=59896

(gotta love the mangled syntax of a computer-generated translation)

Then we have the demise of the Canadian Association of Broadcasters this past June and with it the end of HD Radio adoption in Canada. The CAB was pushing for HDR but not anymore and no one else seems interested in it, especially after the disaster of bringing DAB to Canada. http://www.rwonline.com/article/101616

Wonder how Radio Bucharest is doing with their adoption of HD Radio? http://radioworld.com/article/102184

BTW, I would much quicker believe something I've read on the internet then believe the promises of a car salesman. c5