Future Of Talk Radio In Dallas-Fort Worth

[Bruce L.]

Does anyone have the feeling that some changes, even some surprising changes, may be in store for the future of talk radio in Dallas-Fort Worth. Just think about the changes that have taken place in the past five or ten years. To be sure, a change of owners can bring on all kinds of things (some good, some bad, and some otherwise).

Is it noteworthy that WBAP's numbers have been a bit down? Is it time for KRLD to change some things? Is there any hope for KLIF to rebound to where they were twelve or so years ago? Can K-SKY (the station with Michael Medved and Bill Bennett) ever make a real dent in this market?

Sorry about all the questions. But I also know that many of you will have some definite opinions on these matters.

 

[TheLaffer]

Does anyone have the feeling that some changes, even some surprising changes, may be in store for the future of talk radio in Dallas-Fort Worth. Just think about the changes that have taken place in the past five or ten years. To be sure, a change of owners can bring on all kinds of things (some good, some bad, and some otherwise).

Is it noteworthy that WBAP's numbers have been a bit down? Is it time for KRLD to change some things? Is there any hope for KLIF to rebound to where they were twelve or so years ago? Can K-SKY (the station with Michael Medved and Bill Bennett) ever make a real dent in this market?

Sorry about all the questions. But I also know that many of you will have some definite opinions on these matters.

KLIF screwed up when they let go of the LOCAL sound. IE: The Sport brothers, Rody, Norm, Kevin, Gold. KLIF in my opinion also made another mistake dropping Dr. Laura. Agree with her or not she had a lot of listeners. After all she was #1 in LIBERAL LAND, Los Angles!!

KSKY also signed on with a pretty good sound. Those two dynamics sent KLIF spiraling. I do think SAVAGE will bring KLIF back up to a 1.7 . KRLD is so bad they're just getting there pitiful 1.9 because of their heritage. WBAP will be back up, however they could do better at night.

 

[klifhanger]

It's possible that listeners are just getting "talked out" tired of the conservative name calling, the interuptions from some one with a different point of view,and of course lets not forget the yelling, along with screened calls that prevent someone with an intelligent counterpoint. Dallas needs an all news station,not another conservative "negathon"

 

[Slambang]

Im in total agreement, the whole conservative "revolution" as a whole has run its course. Sure, they'll always be room for opinion, but it needs to be addressed in a format that will be both productive and constructive.

 

[a regular listener]

I miss Tom Kamb

 

[little1]

KLIF screwed up when they let go of the LOCAL sound. IE: The Sport brothers, Rody, Norm, Kevin, Gold. KLIF in my opinion also made another mistake dropping Dr. Laura. Agree with her or not she had a lot of listeners. After all she was #1 in LIBERAL LAND, Los Angles!!

KSKY also signed on with a pretty good sound. Those two dynamics sent KLIF spiraling. I do think SAVAGE will bring KLIF back up to a 1.7 . KRLD is so bad they're just getting there pitiful 1.9 because of their heritage. WBAP will be back up, however they could do better at night.

You know Laffer, it would be easier to take you seriously if you had the ability to recognize what really happened.
KLIF didn't screw up when they let go of the local sound. They screwed up by trying to be to many things to too many people. Specifically their crazy-quilt patchwork of sports/nonsports/sports/nonsports...At one point, they had Norm inthe AM, McCarthy mornings, Fish at lunch, I can't even remember who in afternoons and the sports brothers 6-8.
The management should have seen they were getting their ass handed to them by the Ticket and gotten out much earlier. THAT's what killed KLIF. If they'd moved Norm, that no-talent Fish (has any guy failed more times as a sports talk host than him?) and the sports bro's out earlier, they might of had a chance...
And KLIF was spiraling long before KSKY showed up...and Dr Laura was there for at least a couple of years. With no ratings to speak of...Not to mention that Dr Laura appeals to the housewife type, which is the exact antithesis of your 'typical' talk listener...

 

[little1]

And Bruce- I assume you're talking about "traditional" talk radio. Which is fine.
But consider this- teh top 2 stations 25-54 are Live 105.3 and The Ticket.

That's right, the top 2 stations in the most coveted demo ARE talk. They're just not the old-fuddy, rabbit-ear era talk stations...

But the one thing both stations have, they're entertaining. A lot of the talk stations around here could take a lesson from that. And enetrtaining doesn't just meaning screaming louder than the other guy...

 

[OldGringo]

But consider this- teh top 2 stations 25-54 are Live 105.3 and The Ticket.

That's right, the top 2 stations in the most coveted demo ARE talk. They're just not the old-fuddy, rabbit-ear era talk stations...

The top 2 are KKDA and KPLX, followed by KTCK, KLTY, KLNO and KHKS... KLLI is 10th in the demo under the calls in effect in simmer.

 

[TheLaffer]

KLIF screwed up when they let go of the LOCAL sound. IE: The Sport brothers, Rody, Norm, Kevin, Gold. KLIF in my opinion also made another mistake dropping Dr. Laura. Agree with her or not she had a lot of listeners. After all she was #1 in LIBERAL LAND, Los Angles!!

KSKY also signed on with a pretty good sound. Those two dynamics sent KLIF spiraling. I do think SAVAGE will bring KLIF back up to a 1.7 . KRLD is so bad they're just getting there pitiful 1.9 because of their heritage. WBAP will be back up, however they could do better at night.

You know Laffer, it would be easier to take you seriously if you had the ability to recognize what really happened.
KLIF didn't screw up when they let go of the local sound. They screwed up by trying to be to many things to too many people. Specifically their crazy-quilt patchwork of sports/nonsports/sports/nonsports...At one point, they had Norm inthe AM, McCarthy mornings, Fish at lunch, I can't even remember who in afternoons and the sports brothers 6-8.
The management should have seen they were getting their ass handed to them by the Ticket and gotten out much earlier. THAT's what killed KLIF. If they'd moved Norm, that no-talent Fish (has any guy failed more times as a sports talk host than him?) and the sports bro's out earlier, they might of had a chance...
And KLIF was spiraling long before KSKY showed up...and Dr Laura was there for at least a couple of years. With no ratings to speak of...Not to mention that Dr Laura appeals to the housewife type, which is the exact antithesis of your 'typical' talk listener...

Little1,

I could care less whether you take me serious or not. Fact is when Norm, Kevin, Gold, Sports Bros, Etc were on, KLIF had 3 shares.

 

[SmokeRing]

the top 2 stations 25-54 are Live 105.3 and The Ticket.

Aside from the error in the above statement, you're right, Little1, that talk radio should be entertaining.

But you're wrong about KLIF's old line-up. It needed to be tweaked, true, but the strategy was sound.

KLIF used to target an educated, high-end male demo. The Ticket and Live 105.3 certainly do not. So a ratings comparison isn't all that relevant.

KLIF was doing what TV networks do when they go after the golf demo. The ratings will be lower, but the ad revenue can still be extremely healthy.

Corporate radio is ill-equipped to attempt KLIF's former mission. Few GM's and PD's in corporate radio can relate to that demo. If they have a college education at all, it's usually in a soft Communications subject like Radio-Television-Film or Advertising. Not Business/Marketing, Engineering, Computer Programming, Law, etc. And those are the men you want to target.

David Gold has a law degree. Kevin McCarthy qualified for math scholarships. Norm is a former college professor. THAT's how you hit that particular male demo. Fish would have been a good fit if he hadn't been such a Jerry Jones suck-up during the Switzer era. He probably ruined his name in this market right there.

 

[arnoldevns]

I think it's unlikely that the current crop of talk stations will stay the same over the course of the next year.

KLIF - it's a total mess. Ankarlo wasn't a huge hit, but he had a following. Letting him get out of town was a mistake. It'll take a while to recover from his departure.

KSKY - needs a bigger draw for at least one daypart to really grow in the ratings. They had decent sampling for a book or two, but they've leveled off and don't seem to be going anywhere now.

WBAP - A very solid station that needs to avoid becoming complacent. The return of Tyler Cox there should help.

KRLD - needs to decide what they're going to be. Either be a news station or a talk station or a news/talk station. Figure it out and go with it. Right now I have no idea what I'm going to hear when I tune in. I just know that most of the time when I do tune in, I tune out shortly thereafter.

KVCE (?) - Yet another conservative talker with nothing particularly special to add to the discussion.

I won't go in to a discussion of the assorted sports/talk stations because I think they're a niche unto themselves.

My suggestions for the stations would be as follows:

KLIF - drop all of your current programming and pick up the women's talk format that "Cafe 990" was going to do a few years back. Women's talk is about the only thing missing from this market.

KSKY - do a local show in the morning with someone who could get a number - like David Gold. That could set the table for the rest of the day and help the station crack the 1.0 barrier more consistently.

WBAP - I wouldn't change too much, but I try to get a better night-time lineup.

KRLD - drop the talk and go to an all-news format. I'd still allow listeners to call in to talk to the mayor or other newsmakers, but I'd make the station a true news station again. No one is doing that here and there is a market for it.

Above all, any station making changes needs to promote themselves on TV - a lot. Billboards are important, but TV works best to get the word out about this kind of thing.

 

[smedge2006]

But you're wrong about KLIF's old line-up. It needed to be tweaked, true, but the strategy was sound.

KLIF used to target an educated, high-end male demo. KLIF was doing what TV networks do when they go after the golf demo. The ratings will be lower, but the ad revenue can still be extremely healthy.

KLIF's strategy was the product of its ultra-conservative (in a cultural sense), Central Pennsylvania Dutch
owners, the Pfaltzgraff-Appells. Even when KLIF was the only talker in Dallas, it was an underperformer compared with talkers in other markets, thanks to the Susquehanna philosophy, leaving it vulnerable to WBAP when country on AM got old. David Gold is only a year older than Limbaugh. He could have been the Limbaugh of the boomer generation, but the "nice guy radio" culture of Susque, not to mention those saccharine Monday Memos, probably stunted his growth as a host.

Susquehanna tried to export its philosophy in the late 80s when it acquired a Tampa talk station. It promptly emasculated that station and put it under the direction of KLIF refugees such as Art Snow and a few other wannabes. Ratings promptly disappeared and the station flipped formats and fired most of the staff within two years. Its sales pieces touted the "Quality Combo" (it was paired with a smooth jazz station), asserting that Quality was more important than raw numbers. Agencies saw through that claim quickly, especially after the KLIF clone fell below a one share, as the Jacor-programmed competition mopped the floor with it.

BTW, don't forget the "golf demo" has changed. Today it's more like Caddyshack. KLIF was programmed as if it were the front nine on the Masters that TV doesn't show.

 

[SmokeRing]

KLIF was programmed as if it were the front nine on the Masters that TV doesn't show.

I'm a fan of analogies, and THAT's a good one. I think they had the right idea, and many of the right talents. But the overall entertainment value wasn't quite there. If you think about it, that station was an evolutionary bridge between old school Larry King talk, and the kind of stuff Limbaugh has perfected.

Kevin McCarthy's Friday joke and talent hour was really good.

 

[little1]

the top 2 stations 25-54 are Live 105.3 and The Ticket.

Aside from the error in the above statement, you're right, Little1, that talk radio should be entertaining.

Sorry, left out the 'men' 25-54.
Pretty sure from the last study we did that 1310 and 105.3 were the top 2 25-54 men stations...

 

[little1]

Little1,

I could care less whether you take me serious or not. Fact is when Norm, Kevin, Gold, Sports Bros, Etc were on, KLIF had 3 shares.

Link?
Or at least book and year we're talking here? Because from what I remember they were never in the 3's in the late 90's/Early '00's which is when the Sports Bro's were on...

 

[little1]

KLIF used to target an educated, high-end male demo. The Ticket and Live 105.3 certainly do not. So a ratings comparison isn't all that relevant.

My point was that 20 years ago when Norm was the only guy doing sports talk on the station, KLIF was popular. When David Gold and Bob Ray Sanders were the only guys really talking about politics, KLIF was popular. When Kevin etc etc...

They may have been targeting high end, but I bet they were willing to take the low-life pre-ticket lsiteners too. But when 1310 flipped, if you were a sports fan, why wait between 9am when Norm went off and 6pm when the sports brothers started to get sports?
By the same token, why sit through Kevin or Fish to get to political talk when MArk Davis and Limbaugh are on WBAP...

High end or not, they started losing listeners to competitors. Because they were trying to please "everybody"...

 

[little1]

KSKY - do a local show in the morning with someone who could get a number - like David Gold. That could set the table for the rest of the day and help the station crack the 1.0 barrier more consistently.

Has Godl been able to 'get a number' sine KLIF like a decade or more ago? I'm trying to remember when he left KLIF, and early to mid-90's springs to mind. And I know he went to some Salem station and did talk for a while, but did he really draw any numbers there?

David may be a nice guy, but if he was really able to 'draw a number' wouldn't he probably be doing it somewhere?

 

[country24]

"It's possible that listeners are just getting "talked out" tired of the conservative name calling, the interuptions from some one with a different point of view,and of course lets not forget the yelling, along with screened calls that prevent someone with an intelligent counterpoint. Dallas needs an all news station,not another conservative 'negathon'"

I remember a few years ago, I think it was in the '90s, KGNC Amarillo had that same attitude about Rush. Once a year they took a listener survey to determine if the listeners were getting tired of him yet. Every year he was more popular than the year before. They finally gave up.

But you are right about Dallas needing an all news station. I've always wondered why KRLD hasn't gone back to that.

 

[klifhanger]

Yes KRLD should go all News with SUPPORT from management instead of on a shoe string like its last effort. If you go in half baked ,you will never get it well done.

 

[arnoldevns]

Has Gold been able to 'get a number' sine KLIF like a decade or more ago? I'm trying to remember when he left KLIF, and early to mid-90's springs to mind. And I know he went to some Salem station and did talk for a while, but did he really draw any numbers there?

David may be a nice guy, but if he was really able to 'draw a number' wouldn't he probably be doing it somewhere?

I don't know. I threw his name out because he was the only guy available that I could think of that would fit the KSKY programming who has shown some success as a talk show host in this market. Maybe he isn't the guy to get. Maybe Ed Busch is the guy they need. (just kidding)

The point is, KSKY needs a morning show with a local host who can draw a number. If they do that, they can build an audience. I just don't think they can build that station into a competitor with just syndicated stuff.