Great songs that were Top 40 hits that you never hear on the radio

[BIG APE]

I don't remember seeing...Pictures of Matchstick men or Signs on the list??

 

[cARLOS Blake]

I don't remember seeing...Pictures of Matchstick men or Signs on the list??

Both are pretty mainstream, especially 5ManEB.

 

[ZAX Double J]

I have started a new full-time job at none other than Wal-Mart as a stocker. Yeah it's not what I REALLY want to do (that would be to have a full-time on-air job in the field that I love - RADIO), but hey the pay isn't too bad either. Anyway, I mention that as I have been working there I have had an opportunity to listen to the in-store music system while we stock a brand new store in Nashville, NC set to open March 5. I have found that many of the songs we mentioned on this thread have been played on this in-store system. Now my question is this: If many of these songs are such that "they don't test well" and can't be played on the radio then why on earth would they be playing where thousands of people shop everyday? And why do I have to go to Wal-Mart just to hear them played in public? I'd much rather hear them on the radio.

 

[allenv]

I am sure the thousands of shoppers will run screaming from Walmart because
a consultant said they didn't test well.I hear great tunes in resturants and malls that I never hear on the radio.Very sad and it makes no sense that I can't hear these hit songs on the radio but if I'm buying soap and toothpaste
I get a better variety of music.

Allen

 

[w00t]

I seriously don't know the actual answer to this, but my stab in the dark...

Radio needs to capture you NOW. You're punching the buttons, you need a song you know NOW. RIGHT NOW. Not later, and they know if you don't know the song you're going to keep punching (and maybe not come back for a long time -- again, that's not NOW).

In the grocery store you have a captive audience who's more focused on which brand of milk will save them 15 cents. They don't care what's playing, and they probably want something relaxing. You're not going to run from Food Lion and drive straight to Lowe's Foods because you didn't like the song. But, if 101.5 is playing something you don't like, it's not hard to push the button and go to 103.3.

 

[Tom Wells]

I seriously don't know the actual answer to this, but my stab in the dark...

Radio needs to capture you NOW. You're punching the buttons, you need a song you know NOW. RIGHT NOW. Not later, and they know if you don't know the song you're going to keep punching (and maybe not come back for a long time -- again, that's not NOW).

In the grocery store you have a captive audience who's more focused on which brand of milk will save them 15 cents. They don't care what's playing, and they probably want something relaxing. You're not going to run from Food Lion and drive straight to Lowe's Foods because you didn't like the song. But, if 101.5 is playing something you don't like, it's not hard to push the button and go to 103.3.

Very important point! A byproduct of which is why we have such awful AM radios.
In order to do this, we give away the ability to TUNE, rather than select at fixed 10 khz steps "on freq".
Another discussion on engineering would show how institutionalized "bad AM" sound has been created by this "concept".

As soon as manufacturers began to address pushbutton select on radios (1937), the actual performance of the
radio was a step lower than when an "extra" RF gain preselector stage was state of the art.
Well, except for car radios with the cam-and-coil rocker, which was built like a tank, but only gave 5 or 6 presets,
and you had to remember which were for AM/FM.

Back to the point, maybe the NAB should lobby for limits on punch rate, or a timer, or something to prevent all
this bouncing around. The radio would just be stuck for a while after too many changes too soon.
It could unlock after 30 minutes or so.

On the retail sales music,
I've noticed this too. A month ago in Baton Rouge at gas station where I heard two songs somewhat off the beaten oldies
path that I have on my pt 15 format. They were both songs once overplayed, dropped many years off oldies if they ever were
in "oldies", but stand up well in retrospect. Neither one was " Pictures of Matchstick Men" but I play that too.

 

[allenv]

Woot and Mr.Wells I agree with both of you.Your points are very insightful.I have always been of the opinion that the Top 100 songs of the particular years your station is focusing on should be the nucleus of the playlist and then you add tunes around that.I just wanna see someone with a decent stick try this approach and give it a proper amount of time to see if it works and if it doesn't I'll be the first to never bring up the subject again.Some stations seems to change format more often than I change underwear. Kool should have done this... focus on 1965-1989 with some tunes pre and post these years if they fit.I also like the Doug Moreland theory of a 2100 song playlist with 3 rotations in and out of 700 songs.Music is the most important thing you do, hands down.I talk to so many people who ask me why doesn't a station play this or that and in most cases they mention legitimate
hit songs.The art of a station resting a song seems to be gone as well.
There are some great music minds in this area who are not being allowed to do what they do best.Music is a very personal snapshot of a persons life and the listeners are being cheated out of some great tunes that should be on the radio so they have to go to other sources to get them and radio just stratches its head and screams "hey don't leave me... come back".Stations
need to get back to individual music directors who are in house and make music decisions based on their knowledge and what the listeners wants and stop letting outside sources dictate the playlist.Music is like a loaf of bread,
its great when its fresh but as it sits on the shelf and doesn't get replaced, it gets stale.Keep it fresh and people buy it, if you let it get stale they go elsewhere to find fresh.Again one day, probably not in my lifetime, someone is going to dare to step outside the box and really be different and they will reap
the rewards.

Allen

 

[ZAX Double J]

Two songs I heard today were Romeo's Tune - Steve Forbert and Pilot of the Ariwaves- Charlie Dore. Great songs.

I refuse to believe that shoppers don't care or listen to the in-store music systems. I've had several fellow employees comment on the great songs they're playing and why they aren't heard on the radio. As I tried to explain that it's the music consultant's and corporate radio's mentality to limit the playlist to those songs that they test. Naturally they look at me with a funny look and say "you mean someone else from who knows where programs the music on the radio rather than it being done locally?" and I say yes. "That's why I never listen to the radio anymore" is their response. People aren't dumb and they know the on-air product is deteriorating because of tight playlists, voice-tracking and the lack of creativity. I was reading an issue of Radio and Records magazine the other day at the station and there was an interesting article in it about the exact same subject. I will find out what issue it was and let everyone know what it was so you can read it for yourself.

Allen you were right on target.

 

[allenv]

I see so many stations who stuggle with ratings and revenue and they tend to
blame the sales department for their woes.Here is my question.. If I am a new station or a struggling station why in the world would I follow the status
quo and do the things the others are doing.Have some stations simply given up??? Is it a matter of let's do it as cheaply and vanilla as we possibly can and accept the outcome??? Have people in positions of power lost their desire
and creative fire and unwillingness to play follow the leader.Nothing of any importance in life has been accomplished by playing follow the leader.Alot of very talented people over the years have fought and fought but finally gave up because they were not given a chance to do what they do best.I see people who say I'm just thankful to have a job but their passion is gone and that to me is so sad.I probably love radio more now than ever because I see
how much potential some stations have.The marriage of the great technology
of today and the passion and creativity of yesterday have the potential to make right now another golden era for radio.Somebody is who swimming in the sea of mediocrity has got to rise up and say we will be unique and different and we we will not accept failure or the same old stuff.Its like being
mid pack in the ACC right now,if you play well and win some games you'll impress the selection committee and be in the field of 65.If not, its NIT time or you may even be home in March and April.There are some stations and owners who seem to have simply given up and if you don't believe the listener
hears it you are only fooling yourself.

Allen

 

[surfdude]

"Two songs I heard today were Romeo's Tune - Steve Forbert and Pilot of the Ariwaves- Charlie Dore. Great songs."

Great songs to you. I don't like either of those songs. And, that's the point. To be a highly listened to station, you have to play songs that a lot of people like and agree on. That number is usually around 300-400 songs for most formats that play a lot of non-currrent songs. You can play some additional titles during specialty shows. The average listener wants instant gratification. When they punch up your station they want to hear a song they know and like. Romeo's Tune and Pilot of the Airwaves probably don't qualify for the AVERAGE listener. Anyone who was, or is in radio does not qualify as an average listener.

 

[ZAX Double J]

"Two songs I heard today were Romeo's Tune - Steve Forbert and Pilot of the Ariwaves- Charlie Dore. Great songs."

Great songs to you. I don't like either of those songs. And, that's the point. To be a highly listened to station, you have to play songs that a lot of people like and agree on. That number is usually around 300-400 songs for most formats that play a lot of non-currrent songs. You can play some additional titles during specialty shows. The average listener wants instant gratification. When they punch up your station they want to hear a song they know and like. Romeo's Tune and Pilot of the Airwaves probably don't qualify for the AVERAGE listener. Anyone who was, or is in radio does not qualify as an average listener.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on songs.

Romeo's Tune went to #11 on the Top 40 charts so that one many of your "AVERAGE" listener of my age 40-45 will remember this song. And Pilot went to #13 also right respectable for a song so it will also be remeberable to the same age group. Your talk is the same force fed crap that the consultants have rammed down PDs and GMs throats for the last 30 years and is exactly WHY radio is in the state of decline that it is in now. When does a station look to be different and STAND OUT rather than doing what everyone else is doing in this age of diverse alternative media? If it continues this same path it's on now terrestrial radio will die - mark my words. Stations need to ditch the consultant and start thinking as individuals again then maybe radio will have a chance to survive. I have always said what may work in one market may NOT work in all markets, but the powers that be don't think that way they think what works in New York will work in a small town in Kansas and it won't. Each market is different and unique and should be treated as such. That's what made radio great was that when you went from one town to the next you heard something differnt rather than the same cookie cutter radio we have today. As Allen points out with today's technology and great creative talent radio stands on the verge of a great revolution. I too have the passion for this business and it is in my blood shall we say and despite the state of the industry I believe it can rise up again.

 

[w00t]

Tight playlists are not why radio is in the state it's in. The computer you're sitting at right now, iPods, satellite radio (to an extent), cell phones that hold music, etc etc etc are why radio isn't doing well. Radio had tight playlists since the beginning, but until this century it did not have such easily accessible sources of music working against it.

Just like surfdude and I already said... listeners want instant gratification. They want their favorite song RIGHT NOW. Radio can't do that, but their iPod and phone can. The current generation, myself included (I'm 23) have grown up getting what we want, on demand, when we want it. I love radio because I used to be in it. Nobody else I know with access to any kind of musical device gives two craps about music-formatted radio. And even if they tried, radio couldn't please them. People can custom-tailor their playlists to be what they want, when they want it, and there aren't enough frequencies between 88.1 and 107.9 to replicate this. HD radio is a temporary solution to a permanent problem. It too will go by the wayside.

Just like someone who wants cable where they move, I made XM a requirement when I bought my current car. I've had a satellite subscription for 4 years or so now, but there's one thing I still turn back to terrestrial radio for... talk radio. That's the one thing left that radio has going for it. Rush isn't on satellite, and the AM stations I listen to are at least semi-local, moreso than the couple FM's I frequent. Wide playlists are not the future of radio, localism is. I know people my age who listen to Pirate Radio. I don't know people my age who still care that 93.3 plays top 40. Hell they probably couldn't even name the top 40 station.

 

[allenv]

You are correct to a certain degree woot.Folks your age are all about the Ipod,cell phone,computer etc... but at the same time a 40 plus person uses the modern technology you talked about but it is not the have all end all.It is really the 40 plus listener who still has the passion for radio that i talk about.
I'm amazed at how many people don't own a computer or don't use it much.Technology is great and radio should use it as incentive to raise its game.To a 40 plus listener I still think they want to hear a DJ talk to them
and talk about things they can relate to and add some spice to the music.I have all the modern conviences you speak of but there is something warm and special about good,live local one to one radio they my generation still apreciates.Some many people still consider radio one of their best friends.Until my generation is gone that will not change.

Allen

 

[allenv]

Radio could provide some of that instant gradification if it would get back to putting the listener first and you can't do that with voice tracking or unmanned stations.Radio has to ask itself do I want to save a few bucks now
and voice track or have no human?? or do I want to go live,serve a listener,produce a great product and make money in the long run.Too many in my opinion opt for the first option.Its been an old saying forever, you have to spend money to make money.Radio today wants it both ways and it simply doesn't work.As always this is just my opinion....

Allen

 

[w00t]

All that doesn't matter, simply because radio doesn't want to cater anymore to the generations that cares about it. My dad used to listen to 107.9 all the time, loved it. This is back when it was still an oldies station. Now he can't stand it and rarely ever listens... this goes back to the point I've made before that 107.9 is no longer an oldies station. He says the station plays too much 70s and disco and doesn't know who they're trying to target (for the record, I don't know either). Digging deep and having wide playlists is irrelevant when you're leaving entire decades out of the music mix.

When I bought my car with XM installed I gave him my old plug-in XM receiver. He's used it for over a year, always listens to the 50s and 60s channels and couldn't stand giving it up. Only station in this market he still listens to is 98.9 The Bear.

 

[surfdude]

This thread is about deeper music cuts, but ALLEN hit the nail on the head.

To remain relevant a radio has to be more than just music. It has to create a "community"
among it's listeners. Local content, promotion, contesting, public service. Sadly, most stations
don't do much of that anymore.

 

[w00t]

This thread is about deeper music cuts, but ALLEN hit the nail on the head.

To remain relevant a radio has to be more than just music. It has to create a "community"
among it's listeners. Local content, promotion, contesting, public service. Sadly, most stations
don't do much of that anymore.

And I made this very point a few posts up. Talk radio is still localized, and they aren't suffering... meanwhile music radio IS suffering.

 

[allenv]

Woot I am all about 107.9 expanding the playlist.There is no doubt that would be a good thing but if you look at the numbers the station is doing well.
John Moore's Saturday night Sock Hop plays quite a bit of 50's and do-wop and has great numbers.Again I go back to the great people on the station (myself excluded).I love 1950-1989 musically.If 107.9 had a night jock taking requests,dedications etc.. I firmly believe it would be in the Top 3 in the market.If Kool would use their noggin they would put someone on at night right now who is live and local but they are just one example in the point I'm
making.Live radio beats robot radio 95% of the time.Your father is a great example of the kind of listener stations should be after.A music of your life station on FM would do well but you can't pot the satellite up and walk away or let the computer do all the work while the "airstaff" is in another room doing something else.I actuallyheard a station promote request and a drive at five deal last week give out the Toll Free and say call me, so my wife called and wanted to hear a song.The phone rang for 20 minutes and no one ever answered.??????? It just makes me shake my head...Thats why the live dayparts weekdays and Saturday nights and the Sunday Beach show on 107.9 do so well ratings wise and money wise,there is someone there interacting with listeners who are my age(41) and your dad's age.There is still a huge audience
with some pretty deep pockets who love and respond to that kind of radio.There are owners and stations who think they are too good to talk to Joe who is cooking out or Bill at the service station who wants you to announce his wife's birthday and play her a song but that kind of one to one interaction that takes 20 seconds out of a radio stations life means an awful lot to people and in alot of cases leads directly or indirectly to revenue for the station.I am not real smart about alot of things but even my simple brain
can see your chances of success are better the more live a station is.Some owners simply put their fingers in their ears( or farther south) and go nah nah I can't hear you.I'm a nobody in this business so the know it all's who own some stations blow me off but in this case I'm right.I just not ready to throw in the towel on radio around here quite yet.I believe 1000% in the greatness of radio.

Allen

 

[ZAX Double J]

I have to agree with Allen as well.

Here's the issue of Radio and Records Magazine I was referring to it's the Feb 8, 2008 issue page 10 the article is titled "Radio Daze" some very interesting reading of a long time veteran of radio. He says a lot of the things Allen and I talk about here. I believe 10,000% in the greatness of good radio.

Yes the younger crowd may not "get" radio since all they know is the "get it now mentality", but there is one thing to be said about terrestrial radio it's essentially free the only cost involved in listening to it is the cost of the electricity to power the radio or the batteries that it uses. Ipods cost money especially IF you download legally, satellite radio is a money sucker, the internet comes close, but you still have to pay your ISP to get it, cell phones are also like satellite radio, a money sucker with fees and a monthly payment that inevetably will go up in the future. All of these other sources lack the interactivity that radio does they're very cold and impersonal. I have an Ipod, I have the internet, and I probably will never own a satellite radio because I don't want to pay a monthly fee for it. Yeah I do for cable, phones and the internet, but at this point I've accepted those, but I refuse to accept satellite radio because I work in radio and firmly belive in terrestrial radio's power. It's like I heard after hurricane Katrina, more people got their information from NOT from TV, NOT from the internet, NOT through cell phones as all of those were out of commission, and NOT satellite radio either, but terrestrial RADIO that's where. Allen knows what I'm talking about since he was here in Rocky Mount then and helped produce a Katrina Radiothon we did.

I'm like Allen I too am a nobody in this business even though I've worked almost 22 years in it and no one really listens to the things we say about this industry, but we see WAY more than those who are in power

 

[allenv]

Double J,
Hang onto that issue if you can.I'd like to read the article.Sounds interesting..

Allen