Has Elroy R.C. Smith (WGCI/V-103) overstayed his welcome in Chicago?

[Countrykev]

I'm merely debating you from the management perspective of the station. You're representing the listener, and I'm representing the management. I recognize what you're trying to say, and I'm arguing with you from the other perspective. I've been programming for a long time, and I know how to listen to when my listeners speak.

In this situation I do see it from the listener's perspective: They agree with what Elroy's doing. Arbitron is the best method we have to surveying the listener landscape, and so far the listeners like the programming that's being aired on WGCI. You cannot dispute the numbers for the simple reason that they are consistent. There are no ups and downs on WGCI and V103. They have been at the top for years. Habit and heritage mean nothing these days because there is far too much competition in existance. Anyacat made a good point: it's Clear Channel. As soon as the station doesn't meet goals things will change.

I'm also not saying that house music doesn't fit the WGCI listener lifestyle. What I am saying is that if I'm a PD wanting to focus the station and make the station consistent, then I'll dump the one thing that doesn't seem to hit: House music. If you're trying to make a focused product of R&B and Hip Hop, you want people to hear that music every time they turn on the station. When they hear something else, it's not consistent. You have to be focused and consistent to be competitive in the 2006 radio landscape. There might be a few people upset by this decision but it's for the overall competitive good of the station and it has worked. You're never, ever, ever going to be able to please everyone.

As I said earlier, I've met Elroy. He's a good guy. He did explain when I talked to him that he DOES respond to each and every email he receives, and I'm sure he will respond to phone calls in some way. It's a good way to connect with the people who listen. You can't say he won't unless you try.

p.s. Call the Clear Channel office and find out a way to get his email, or his assistant.

People can stay in a position for a long time because they are good at what they do. Elroy is a perfect example of that.

 

[rkchgo]

To Jay F and Countrykev, do you guys work for Elroy?

No I don't, but I admire a PD who can keep two stations consistently successful. This is especially impressive considering all of the competition WGCI/WVAZ have. As everyone knows there is no shortage of urban and urban leaning stations in Chicago.

I disagree that "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is lazy. Actually there is a lot of wisdom in that saying. There have been far too many times when stations that are doing well make programming changes for the sake of change and then end up destroying themselves.

At one time I would have agreed with your cenorship/editing criticisms. But as the years have gone by I have realized that all of the smut/porn/violence in popular culture has been terrible for society. The fact that we have been desensitized to the point where nothing is suppossed to offend us has not brought us great freedom or some type of utopia. Instead it has contributed to crime, family breakdown, and an overall lack of civility. I applaud Elroy for doing his part to bring some positivity instead of further moral decay to society and the African-American community in particular. He is a good man.

That's why we as a society have something called "Freedom of Choice." If I don't like or agree with something, I don't have to be subjected to it, but I don't have the right to tell others what they can and can't do.

EXACTLY.

Two choices:
(a) Buy the station and change it.
(b) [EDIT]

Have a nice day.




[EDIT-inflammatory]

 

[Countrykev]

Wow, you really are giving up on terrestrial radio. Elroy is a lot of what makes that station run well. True, the music does a lot, but it isn't everything. What makes a station STAY at the top is what it does beside the music...otherwise you leave yourself wide open for a competitor to take on, and WGCI has seen a lot of them come and go.

 

[Hamp]

Wow, you really are giving up on terrestrial radio. Elroy is a lot of what makes that station run well. True, the music does a lot, but it isn't everything. What makes a station STAY at the top is what it does beside the music...otherwise you leave yourself wide open for a competitor to take on, and WGCI has seen a lot of them come and go.

I just want to make another point. When Elroy first took over GCI he didn't necessarily have to get rid of House Music for the station to succeed, WGCI was doing just fine when they had a House mix show on the weekends. I just think Elroy being from a market where the music (House) wasn't big, he didn't know quite what to do with it. So he just chose to try to eliminate it altogether. Elroy is a good R&B and Hip-Hop (more R&B) programmer, not a great dance music one. If he were, he would have known not to mess with House Music in of all cities, Chicago. The argument just doesn't fly that people don't listen to US99 for rock or The Loop for Classical, that is comparing apples and oranges. House in Chicago is a contemporary music which attracts all sorts of club people which DO listen to WGCI and have for years. Club 107.5 in the mid-to-late 90's was number one in its timeslot on Friday nights. So if Elroy's mission was to keep GCI number one all of the time, Club 107.5 shouldn't have been cancelled in the first place. Maybe revamped, but not cancelled.
WGCI isn't in Kansas City, Little Rock or St. Louis, it is in CHICAGO and one of the reasons why it is so heritage is because of its history with House mixes.
Why would you want to turn GCI into a run of the mill Urban station?
The A and B side shows need to start doing more House mixes again.

 

[Countrykev]

You didn't understand my point. I didn't say people listen to US99 for rock music, I said they don't play rock music on US99. Reason being, it doesn't fit, and it would take away from the consistency of a country format.

My analogy has everything to do with my argument. The Eagles, John Mellencamp, Bruce Springsteen, and Bon Jovi, at one time or another have all been played on country formats. A mild rock and roll show could probably work, especially in a watered-down de-twanged market like Chicago, but there's no need for it. All it does is take away from a consistent, focused, and successful country product.

When it comes to house music, the better question is why does there NEED to be a show for house music? Yeah, it could fit, but why do you NEED it? These are the questions a programmer has to justify. If you're doing just fine with a full time focused product with R&B and Hip Hop, why do you NEED to shuffle it up? To satisfy a handful of dance fans? A good portion of these dance fans probably wouldn't listen to the rest of the station anyway outside of Friday nights, so you're not gaining real numbers. The show may have been #1, but if you can't convert the numbers to your overall product then it's worthless. Alas, last I checked, the station has been doing just fine since they dropped this show.

It's not really a matter of "Not knowing what to do with the music" because that's a pretty silly accusation. How do you "not know what to do with it?" He made the right decision to kick out the one thing that just wasn't working for the station for the simple reason to focus the product.

 

[Jay F]

Even if a new PD ever came to WGCI, it is highly unlikely they would bring back the house show. Mainstream Urban stations like GCI don't carry house music shows.

 

[Hamp]

You didn't understand my point. I didn't say people listen to US99 for rock music, I said they don't play rock music on US99. Reason being, it doesn't fit, and it would take away from the consistency of a country format.

My analogy has everything to do with my argument. The Eagles, John Mellencamp, Bruce Springsteen, and Bon Jovi, at one time or another have all been played on country formats. A mild rock and roll show could probably work, especially in a watered-down de-twanged market like Chicago, but there's no need for it. All it does is take away from a consistent, focused, and successful country product.

When it comes to house music, the better question is why does there NEED to be a show for house music? Yeah, it could fit, but why do you NEED it? These are the questions a programmer has to justify. If you're doing just fine with a full time focused product with R&B and Hip Hop, why do you NEED to shuffle it up? To satisfy a handful of dance fans? A good portion of these dance fans probably wouldn't listen to the rest of the station anyway outside of Friday nights, so you're not gaining real numbers. The show may have been #1, but if you can't convert the numbers to your overall product then it's worthless. Alas, last I checked, the station has been doing just fine since they dropped this show.

It's not really a matter of "Not knowing what to do with the music" because that's a pretty silly accusation. How do you "not know what to do with it?" He made the right decision to kick out the one thing that just wasn't working for the station for the simple reason to focus the product.

BECAUSE IT IS CHICAGO!!!!!!! That's the reason why. You say the station is doing well since they dropped CLUB 107.5, well it was also doing well when the show was still on, so why get rid of it. I mean if you don't like House Music that's one thing, that's your preference, but don't say because you don't like no one else will.
Also, why was it silly to say Elroy didn't know what to do with it, because he didn't. Oh, and if you still listen to GCI you will notice there are STILL House Mixes being played so it is obvious the market still wants it.
You should focus your station based on the city you are in, it shouldn't be "one size fits all."
If House is part of the Urban demographic (not just a "handful" of dance fans) like you say that there are, then it should be rotated. Your focus can still be hip-hop and R&B 90 percent of the time, but you do have to add a little variety. Especially during weekend club shows. I don't understand why programmers in the U.S. are soooooooooooo against variety. Maybe that is the reason why radio has gotten so boring.

 

[rkchgo]

You didn't understand my point. I didn't say people listen to US99 for rock music, I said they don't play rock music on US99. Reason being, it doesn't fit, and it would take away from the consistency of a country format.

My analogy has everything to do with my argument. The Eagles, John Mellencamp, Bruce Springsteen, and Bon Jovi, at one time or another have all been played on country formats. A mild rock and roll show could probably work, especially in a watered-down de-twanged market like Chicago, but there's no need for it. All it does is take away from a consistent, focused, and successful country product.

When it comes to house music, the better question is why does there NEED to be a show for house music? Yeah, it could fit, but why do you NEED it? These are the questions a programmer has to justify. If you're doing just fine with a full time focused product with R&B and Hip Hop, why do you NEED to shuffle it up? To satisfy a handful of dance fans? A good portion of these dance fans probably wouldn't listen to the rest of the station anyway outside of Friday nights, so you're not gaining real numbers. The show may have been #1, but if you can't convert the numbers to your overall product then it's worthless. Alas, last I checked, the station has been doing just fine since they dropped this show.

It's not really a matter of "Not knowing what to do with the music" because that's a pretty silly accusation. How do you "not know what to do with it?" He made the right decision to kick out the one thing that just wasn't working for the station for the simple reason to focus the product.

BECAUSE IT IS CHICAGO!!!!!!! That's the reason why. You say the station is doing well since they dropped CLUB 107.5, well it was also doing well when the show was still on, so why get rid of it. I mean if you don't like House Music that's one thing, that's your preference, but don't say because you don't like no one else will.
Also, why was it silly to say Elroy didn't know what to do with it, because he didn't. Oh, and if you still listen to GCI you will notice there are STILL House Mixes being played so it is obvious the market still wants it.
You should focus your station based on the city you are in, it shouldn't be "one size fits all."
If House is part of the Urban demographic (not just a "handful" of dance fans) like you say that there are, then it should be rotated. Your focus can still be hip-hop and R&B 90 percent of the time, but you do have to add a little variety. Especially during weekend club shows. I don't understand why programmers in the U.S. are soooooooooooo against variety. Maybe that is the reason why radio has gotten so boring.

Two choices:

1. Buy the....oh screw it.

They're not gonna play what you (and three other buddies) want to hear. If you want a station to do that, BUY ONE.

It's not that difficult a concept, is it?

 

[Countrykev]

BECAUSE IT IS CHICAGO!!!!!!! That's the reason why. You say the station is doing well since they dropped CLUB 107.5, well it was also doing well when the show was still on, so why get rid of it. I mean if you don't like House Music that's one thing, that's your preference, but don't say because you don't like no one else will.
Also, why was it silly to say Elroy didn't know what to do with it, because he didn't. Oh, and if you still listen to GCI you will notice there are STILL House Mixes being played so it is obvious the market still wants it.
You should focus your station based on the city you are in, it shouldn't be "one size fits all."
If House is part of the Urban demographic (not just a "handful" of dance fans) like you say that there are, then it should be rotated. Your focus can still be hip-hop and R&B 90 percent of the time, but you do have to add a little variety. Especially during weekend club shows. I don't understand why programmers in the U.S. are soooooooooooo against variety. Maybe that is the reason why radio has gotten so boring.

This is going to be my last post on this. Clearly you're a person who is passionate about this music and that's great. The fact remains that WGCI is #1, V103 remains strong, Elroy will continue to be employed, and house music will not make a comeback. You haven't accepted any of my reasons as to why those statements will continue to be reality. Nothing you are saying or arguing is going to change anything.

This has absolutely nothing to do with personal tastes. I have nothing against house music, and nowhere have I said that I did. That was a silly accusation because a good experienced programmer doesn't get rid of a style of music because he doesn't know anything about it. If it really worked with the station and it made sense, it would have stayed. Club 107.5 was eliminated for the sole purpose that it did not fit with a focused WGCI format I'm trying to tell you this from an experienced programmer's perspective.

You still haven't proven any point that there NEEDS to be house music on that station. Yes, the station was doing fine with the music, but rather than have me retype the same words that I posted above, I'll just cut and paste.

If you're doing just fine with a full time focused product with R&B and Hip Hop, why do you NEED to shuffle it up? To satisfy a handful of dance fans? A good portion of these dance fans probably wouldn't listen to the rest of the station anyway outside of Friday nights, so you're not gaining real numbers. The show may have been #1, but if you can't convert the numbers to your overall product then it's worthless.

I'm sorry radio for you has gotten boring. As I previous stated, variety is still there, but each station has a focus. In 2006 you have to be competitive in order to win. You do that by being THE station that people go to when they want to hear your kind of music. You listen to WLIT for Light rock, US99 for country, the Loop for classic rock, etc... You throw something unexpected at listeners and they flee. There has been a lot of research done that proves that point.

 

[club1075]

Countrykev with all due respect - you state "Club 107.5 was eliminated for the sole purpose that it did not fit with a focused WGCI format" ...

I'm sorry; but, i don't recall you being on the call on June 2nd of '99 ... In fact, it's was only Elroy Smith, Jay Allan and myself on a conference call on that day when the show was terminated... i'll give you the real deal ... details soon; but, not now ...

 

[Hamp]

BECAUSE IT IS CHICAGO!!!!!!! That's the reason why. You say the station is doing well since they dropped CLUB 107.5, well it was also doing well when the show was still on, so why get rid of it. I mean if you don't like House Music that's one thing, that's your preference, but don't say because you don't like no one else will.
Also, why was it silly to say Elroy didn't know what to do with it, because he didn't. Oh, and if you still listen to GCI you will notice there are STILL House Mixes being played so it is obvious the market still wants it.
You should focus your station based on the city you are in, it shouldn't be "one size fits all."
If House is part of the Urban demographic (not just a "handful" of dance fans) like you say that there are, then it should be rotated. Your focus can still be hip-hop and R&B 90 percent of the time, but you do have to add a little variety. Especially during weekend club shows. I don't understand why programmers in the U.S. are soooooooooooo against variety. Maybe that is the reason why radio has gotten so boring.

This is going to be my last post on this. Clearly you're a person who is passionate about this music and that's great. The fact remains that WGCI is #1, V103 remains strong, Elroy will continue to be employed, and house music will not make a comeback. You haven't accepted any of my reasons as to why those statements will continue to be reality. Nothing you are saying or arguing is going to change anything.

This has absolutely nothing to do with personal tastes. I have nothing against house music, and nowhere have I said that I did. That was a silly accusation because a good experienced programmer doesn't get rid of a style of music because he doesn't know anything about it. If it really worked with the station and it made sense, it would have stayed. Club 107.5 was eliminated for the sole purpose that it did not fit with a focused WGCI format I'm trying to tell you this from an experienced programmer's perspective.

You still haven't proven any point that there NEEDS to be house music on that station. Yes, the station was doing fine with the music, but rather than have me retype the same words that I posted above, I'll just cut and paste.

If you're doing just fine with a full time focused product with R&B and Hip Hop, why do you NEED to shuffle it up? To satisfy a handful of dance fans? A good portion of these dance fans probably wouldn't listen to the rest of the station anyway outside of Friday nights, so you're not gaining real numbers. The show may have been #1, but if you can't convert the numbers to your overall product then it's worthless.

I'm sorry radio for you has gotten boring. As I previous stated, variety is still there, but each station has a focus. In 2006 you have to be competitive in order to win. You do that by being THE station that people go to when they want to hear your kind of music. You listen to WLIT for Light rock, US99 for country, the Loop for classic rock, etc... You throw something unexpected at listeners and they flee. There has been a lot of research done that proves that point.

Whatever!! I STILL don't agree that Club 107.5 had to be eliminated. Whether you want to admit it or not, House Music is still apart of Chicago's club culture whether it is: Ghetto/juke, Electro, Deep, Techno, etc. The point you are missing is, 107.5 still does play this music and they wouldn't do so if there weren't an audience for it. That is why I am saying Club 107.5 still had a purpose for being on GCI. DJ Phantom, DJ Lil John and DJ V-DUB have a great talent for mixing R&B and House jams, I think they should be given more of an opportunity to do so. WGCI listeners DO go to clubs to hear R&B and Hip-Hop, but they also like House Music as well. Shouldn't a station reflect the market that it is in? That is the point you are missing. When you go to the West Coast you hear more Snoop and Dj Quik, when you go to the Dirty South, you will hear more "Crunk" music, so why should Chicago be any different?
I don't know what "research" you are talking about, but what about "research" from an ACTUAL LISTENER!!!!
That's all I have to say on the subject.

 

[TowerBuzz]

What's yer beef son?

Because he is getting to the point that he feels he can do anything that he wants. To me, that's not good. "If it ain't broke, why fix it" has to be the laziest expression I have ever heard. If more people thought that way, things would NEVER progress.
[/quote]

"Lucy splain"..........What are you basing this statement on? specific examples would be great because your argument sounds entirely personal rather than being based on actual fact related to his programming abilities. GCI still throws up huge numbers? it bills well? what exactly is your theory based on?.

 

[rkchgo]

Re: What's yer beef son?

Because he is getting to the point that he feels he can do anything that he wants. To me, that's not good. "If it ain't broke, why fix it" has to be the laziest expression I have ever heard. If more people thought that way, things would NEVER progress.

"Lucy splain"..........What are you basing this statement on? specific examples would be great because your argument sounds entirely personal rather than being based on actual fact related to his programming abilities. GCI still throws up huge numbers? it bills well? what exactly is your theory based on?.
[/quote]

Don't bother. He wants the radio station to play what he and only he wants to hear. Had the same tirade on the Phoenix board.

 

[club1075]

When club1075 was eliminated it was because Elroy wanted a "potpourri of music" on the mix show.
Those are his exact words. I was at the other end of the phone. That closes the case - no more speculation. That's what went down. Just for the record (no pun intended) Club 1075 was basically an R&B old school mix show flavored with house music.

Elroy is one of the leading Program Directors in the country. Under the right circumstances ... dance music can make a come back.

Happy Halloween!

 

[Hamp]

I think posters like countrykev missed the point about Elroy Smith. Just because he has been at GCI for a long time and has GCI and V-103 in the top five, doesn't mean he cannot be eliminated.
When corporate has its own agenda, they will do whatever it takes to get it promoted.
Elroy is a person, not God. Clear Channel could fire him tomorrow and decide they want to take a new direction, you just don't know.
Loyalty means nothing to corporate bigwigs.

 

[rkchgo]

I think posters like countrykev missed the point about Elroy Smith. Just because he has been at GCI for a long time and has GCI and V-103 in the top five, doesn't mean he cannot be eliminated.
When corporate has its own agenda, they will do whatever it takes to get it promoted.
Elroy is a person, not God. Clear Channel could fire him tomorrow and decide they want to take a new direction, you just don't know.
Loyalty means nothing to corporate bigwigs.

Nor to radio listeners, apparently.

 

[Hamp]

Does anyone think that Elroy will survive the "Clear Channel ax?" I don't care if he does have two stations in the top five, if they want to cut the fat, they will do so wherever they can. Clear Channel has fired great talent and PDs around the country, why would Elroy be an exception? He's Not.

 

[Damixah3]

More than likely it will be a cut with 2 different PDs (for GCI & V103) for each station for a lower salary......