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"HD Radio Goes the Way of the Laserdisc Player"

Sir, you (and the Tucson people) impugn the dignity of LaserDiscs, which while cumbersome, worked admirably and the images looked fantastic on your old 525-line CRT TVs. (Worked. Unlike HD. And your TV didn't interfere with your neighbor's... ;) :D

More like...."HD has gone the way of...." ....what was that RCA thing that played ultrafine grooves on discs like an LP, "SpectraVision?" "SelectaVision?" I have a client, an old-line radio-TV dealer, who still has some NIB units and a whole display cabinet full of discs. Bizarre.
 
Clear Channel took months to fix 106.7 Lite FM's HD transmitter. When the HD transmitter broke, the HD2 was changing its format every day. After they fixed it, the HD2 is a country format. Nobody complained about the missing HD2.
 
If HD goes the way of the laserdisc player, us DXers will get our first-adjacents back for DX maybe? I have no loggings on 88.3/88.7/92.3/92.7/93.5 etc. due to HD's terrible sidebands.

-crainbebo
 
But, all my first adjacents are locals anyway. (Or, at least boosters, translators, etc).
 
Nick said:
Clear Channel took months to fix 106.7 Lite FM's HD transmitter. When the HD transmitter broke, the HD2 was changing its format every day. After they fixed it, the HD2 is a country format. Nobody complained about the missing HD2.
Click to expand...
I for one am very glad it is back, helping to fill the huge void in the New York area for a country music station. As I previously posted, New York Country WLTW HD2 now has a surprisingly good signal that reaches well into the suburban areas. It has become the local broadcast station I listen to most often. Country music with decent dj's (from CC's Country Road), and no commercials, what's not to like? ;D
 
The reality is that the death of HD Radio corresponds with the imminent death of AM radio. The major players went through a series of technologies to improve AM after the FCC cut the bandwidth. FM stereo failed, and then HD. Now the trend seems to be either get an FM translator or simply move the content to a co-owned FM. In any case, quality content is deserting AM like rats on a sinking ship. Even non-commercial radio is pulling out. Soon, all that will be left will be religion, ethnic, and third string talk. Why would anyone want to DX that?
 
TheBigA said:
The reality is that the death of HD Radio corresponds with the imminent death of AM radio. The major players went through a series of technologies to improve AM after the FCC cut the bandwidth. FM stereo failed, and then HD. Now the trend seems to be either get an FM translator or simply move the content to a co-owned FM. In any case, quality content is deserting AM like rats on a sinking ship. Even non-commercial radio is pulling out. Soon, all that will be left will be religion, ethnic, and third string talk. Why would anyone want to DX that?
Click to expand...

I DXed a lot when I was just a tyke. And there was a lot of localism and tons of variety. Back then, there were still stations like WABC and WLS crankin' out the hits, live and local 24/7. Now, what is there to DX? At night, virtually the entire AM dial is Hannity/Savage/Noory. If you're lucky, you may catch a ball game. Sure, there's WSM (and I salute them for sticking to their guns) and a few Canadian stations for variety, and that's about it. The AM band is already a wasteland!

DXing on FM? Chances are, the automated Clear Channel-owned Oldies station a hundred miles away doesn't sound a whole lot different than the automated Clear Channel-owned oldies station in your town, the only difference being static. Shortwave? It's becoming a ghost town. Anyone with a smartphone or an internet connection can pick up stations all over the world, which makes for head-spinning variety, but it does kinda take some of the adventure out of it.

In short, DXing has gone the way of hula hoops and recordable tape.
 
DXing on AM has definitely gotten less fun, although there's more work sometimes in figuring out what station's coming in when they're all so alike. Now the clues come during the few local ads that may run at night during breaks versus during a local talk or sports show, for example. So that's more challenging, at least.

FM can be easier thanks to RDS and HD. If it's strong enough to capture the data, the call sign usually pops up and solves the 'mystery'.

Old hat as it may be, I still get a thrill from hearing an ad from an out of state/region station and them naming some street or mall I've never heard of. There's something about pulling a distant signal from the ether that streaming on a cell phone just doesn't capture!
 
DXing is made very difficult these days with the automated overnight shows. You can go a full 28 minutes without hearing any local spots, the weather, a jingle or anything local. I had a lot of fun with it in the 60's. But now that I am in MY 60's (!) it just isn't fun.
 
DXing has gotten less fun on the FM band with the IBOC sidebands on, but with patience, the fun might return is FM DX rises above the IBOC when the weather/atmospheric conditions permits. On AM it's mostly patience with Noory/Savage/Rush/Hannity plus several Cuban stations interfereing at nights. As for HD radio, there's hardly available anywhere, last time I check at Crutchfield's website, there's a high-end home theatre receiver still havea built-in HD radio.
 
So let me get this straight. The all-seeing, all-knowing executive Big Thinkers at CBS, Clear Channel, Greater Media et al - you know, the ones who are presiding over homogenized national McFormats, obscene morning circus shows, lousy content-free programming, etc - in all their wisdom have throttled back AM bandpass to 4.5 kHz and crapped up the band with roaring IBOC noise. It invades host station audio, makes 99% of AM radios sound like 1940 78 rpm records and destroys nighttime service unless you can catch a signal of approximately 75 mV/m to overcome the skywave hash. And they're all surprised that AM listening has tanked. ::)

Of course, these geniuses could have recruited their moron co-conspirators at the NAB to get after the FCC to enforce Part 15 noise rules. But nooo....you see, there's no money in reducing noise. What Big Radio HAD to do is try to force HD Radio on everyone because, of course, they thought it was something they could monetize perpetually on the backs of smaller broadcasters. Great innovation! We develop it, and force our competitors to pay us for it....forever! This is what passes for "improving audio" and "moving into the digital age."

Stupid is as stupid does. Too bad we had to sacrifice AM radio to assuage the greed and ego of clot-poll big shots.
 
Savage said:
And they're all surprised that AM listening has tanked. ::)
Click to expand...

You and I both know that AM was in trouble long before IBOC appeared. AM listening has been tanking since 1978.

Savage said:
Stupid is as stupid does. Too bad we had to sacrifice AM radio to assuage the greed and ego of clot-poll big shots.
Click to expand...

Only if you're talking about the FCC. Because the fact is that the FCC killed off AM radio, much to the anger of the NAB and big radio owners, more than 25 years ago.
 
How can't tell the differents between HD hash on FM compered to Analog, I could tell the diffenets on AM

Does anyone have a link for HD sideband Hash on FM??
 
MarioMania said:
How can't tell the differents between HD hash on FM compered to Analog, I could tell the diffenets on AM

Does anyone have a link for HD sideband Hash on FM??
Click to expand...

FM iboc noise on the host, sure enough....

Two example files, each about two minutes.
Each shows some sort of odd thing happening, not "normal" FM noises

http://www.sendspace.com/file/c6sniy

on this first one, the sound is VERY much like the old SCA noise.

Second one is some weird effect making some parts very crunchy.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/oohxz0

See the thread on "Feeling a bit more positve toward HD Rado on FM", page three.
 
I think what MarioMania is looking for is what the actual sideband noise sounds like. It sounds like static. That's a 10 second sample of IBOC sideband noise, tuned 200 kHz off. It takes a particularly selective radio (like a good car radio) to really pull it out without the main channel splattering all over it, so most folks will never hear it and many who do will think it's just a blank space on the dial.

On my car radio I can not only really hear the obvious whoosh of the digital transmission on each first adjacent, but it even shows up on the signal strength meter, at about 40-60% of the parent analog signal.
 
It could also sound somewhat like a gnat flying near your ear. BTW, I made a typo in my earlier post, I meant to say "receiver with a built-in HD radio".
 
Zach said:
I think what MarioMania is looking for is what the actual sideband noise sounds like. It sounds like static. That's a 10 second sample of IBOC sideband noise, tuned 200 kHz off. It takes a particularly selective radio (like a good car radio) to really pull it out without the main channel splattering all over it, so most folks will never hear it and many who do will think it's just a blank space on the dial.

On my car radio I can not only really hear the obvious whoosh of the digital transmission on each first adjacent, but it even shows up on the signal strength meter, at about 40-60% of the parent analog signal.
Click to expand...

:eek:
I'm shocked! I've never heard it sound so much like regular white noise.
Maybe this is how it sounds on PLL radios.
On all my regular/old FMs with passive detectors, the iboc sidebands
have a distinct whine. Here is a compiled 10 seconds of encroaching sidebands, edited together,representing about 6 or 7 adjacent frequencies.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/44gn9k
 
Tom Wells said:
:eek:
I'm shocked! I've never heard it sound so much like regular white noise.
Maybe this is how it sounds on PLL radios.
On all my regular/old FMs with passive detectors, the iboc sidebands
have a distinct whine. Here is a compiled 10 seconds of encroaching sidebands, edited together,representing about 6 or 7 adjacent frequencies.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/44gn9k
Click to expand...

How about that! :D

I hear that noise too, more on some radios than others. I just chalked it up to my computer here and didn't think it was part of the HD noise because I've never heard that noise on my HD radios or in the car. Guess it IS the HD after all. I actually struggled to eliminate that whine in the sample because I didn't think it belonged at all.

That whine, does it extend at all beyond the first adjacents? I'm hearing it up to 300 kHz away, in between the 1st and 2nd adjacent.

Again though, with certain radios (the Insignia portable and my very selective analog OEM car stereo) the whine isn't there, just a pure whoosh of white noise.
 
I think all HD radios have a 1st adjacent "blocker" so you hear white noise instead of the sidebands.
The Accurain certainly does on AM. The analog car radio, I dont know....
The noise probably does extend up to 300 khz away.

I suspect it is less a problem with very narrow IF response that can be achieved in modern design.
Old radios with simple 10.7 IF transformers are probably a little too wide to keep the noise fully out,
especially when driving through multipath areas and the signal has dropouts.
 
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