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HD Radio is making thngs worse for Analog Radio

> Ummmm FM and HD Radio does show who is playing. It is
> called RDS. They have been doing that for years. You must
> not be very old. Are you about 21 or so?

Ummm, how many stations have you seen that use RDS for anything more than to display their call letters? Even stations with digital audio systems that export ASCII text if the songs are encoded rarely use it.

Kenwood loaned me an IBUZ receiver for a couple of months. Even with the digital data stream only a couple actually displayed song info. Maybe it's different on the West Coast, but in New York and New England there's little more than call letters and station slogans.

Rich
 
> You're slightly confused about how HD works. HD only
> generates noise on the AM band, not the FM band. Your radio
> either has a bad FM antenna or the radio itself has become
> sensitive to the weaker splash from stations on the FM band.

That may be true on the West Coast where stations aren't clustered so closely. There are people now reporting adjacent channel FM interference from IBUZ stations on the East Coast and Midwest. As more AM stations light up, the AM band will become purely local.

In Winter in New England WBZ, Boston (1030), wipes out KDKA, Pittsburgh (1020) about 100 miles away. At 6pm when WBZ turns IBUZ off, KDKA bombs in.

Rich
 
> $279.95 to hear maybe 10 new channels? Where's the value
> there. On sat radio, you can get much cheaper than 13 per
> month. Sign up for a year and it's much cheaper, and you
> gets dozens of channels.
>
>
And how many dp you really listen to? Do you REALLY listen to DOZENS? Or do you have a few that you like.

>
 
>
> Hey K9,
>
> Your banging your head against the wall!!
> Radiodial, Supersound, et al. have made their assumptions
> and guesses....they DO NOT like IBOC. Facts only interfere
> with the discussion.


Good grief! How simple can this be to explain to those who seem to not be able to grasp it! I am NOT talking about signal interference! I am talking about when scanning the FM band for radio stations, those stations that have HD on each side of them, that the scanning stops on them. And those HD channels make noise on my analog FM car radio!

Is the above too confusing for you or what? I have seen my original post so damn distorted to what I actually said and then having people like YOU start making snide remarks.

I am being honest here man! During a scan with an analog FM car radio, the scan stops on the HD channels and those are noisy! It just fills the scanning process with much more noise!


> They hear noises, the radio does not
> function anymore, and all those engineers are lying about
> the math and measurements! After all, there's people gettin'
> "filthy rich" off this IBOC "conspiracy".....and, you know,
> they could care less about stealing the "workingman's
> radio!" You, as a professional broadcast engineer, have been
> duped.


You are an idiot. Had you actually read my origianl post and UNDERSTOOD it then you'd be quite aware of how dumb your post looks to me right now.


> Gold plated wire SOUNDS better than copper too! To hell with
> the math and lab measurements....don't try to tell these
> folks what they hear with their own ears! The fact that you
> can not agree simply proves your hearing is not up to
> par.....same is true for IBOC.
> It is sad.... perception is more important than fact. Thanks
> for all the pros on these boards trying to get the facts
> out.
>


OK Einstein! Answer this, yes or no, and leave the lip-service out of it. Will a analog car radio, while performing a scan, pause on HD channels? Yes/No? And if they do (which my radio does) will there be any sound i.e., noise?

Do you think you can answer that without insulting me?
 
> > Ummmm FM and HD Radio does show who is playing. It is
> > called RDS. They have been doing that for years. You
> must
> > not be very old. Are you about 21 or so?
>
> Ummm, how many stations have you seen that use RDS for
> anything more than to display their call letters? Even
> stations with digital audio systems that export ASCII text
> if the songs are encoded rarely use it.
>
> Kenwood loaned me an IBUZ receiver for a couple of months.
> Even with the digital data stream only a couple actually
> displayed song info. Maybe it's different on the West Coast,
> but in New York and New England there's little more than
> call letters and station slogans.
>
> Rich
>

A lot of stations use RDS. Are you in a small market? 80% of stations in market 33 are running active RDS.

I have seen every HD and HD2 station in Detroit and Chicago with active name and artist.
 
> > >
> > > I am not that worried about it. I'll be getting XM soon
>
> > > enough.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Theres your answer! Why did you come here to tell us you
> > wer going to XM anyways?
> >
>
>
> I came here to discuss what I originally posted. I don't
> understand your statement?
>


>
> > YOU were not listening to what
> > others were telling you.
>
>
> 2 other people have already posted saying they are
> experiencing the same thing! It's you who is not listening.
>
>
>
> > I have done a LOT of listening. I
> > haev listened to an analog FM 90 miles away in complette
> > stereo, while an adjacent FM 25 miles away was running HD.
>
> >
> > You suggested that the analog FM stations had added hiss
> to
> > them. Which is not true. If it is happening to you it is
>
> > your radio that is having trouble.
> >
>
>
> You are still not getting it. I and the others are not
> talking about HD interferring with an FM analog channel. We
> are saying that the radio, during a seek, stops on the HD
> channels and those channels are noisy. It has added more
> noise to the scanning process. That's all.
>

The title of you post is HD Radio is making things worse for analog. Please tell me how it is doing that? Because YOUR scan stops at the adjacent? Most people use their memory buttons and would not even notice. I even did a test on a very cheap radio, AT two transmitter locations. That little radio didnt have any troubles. I have also run the test yesterday on a new Ford factory radio. Same thing. It did not stop on the adjacent. How many radios would you like me to try? I still dont know what type of radio you are using.
 
>
> OK Einstein! Answer this, yes or no, and leave the
> lip-service out of it. Will a analog car radio, while
> performing a scan, pause on HD channels? Yes/No? And if
> they do (which my radio does) will there be any sound i.e.,
> noise?
>
> Do you think you can answer that without insulting me?
>

Here is no insult, OK? I have done this on TWO differnt radios, and have been right at the transmitter location and neither of them did it. The answer is MOST will not. It depends on the radio you have. The radios (non HD) I have used do not. And if a scan does stop on an empty adjacent, even on a non HD station, you will hear noise. That is standard on FM.
 
> A lot of stations use RDS. Are you in a small market? 80%
> of stations in market 33 are running active RDS.

My most recent market was New York City. Is that small? Only a few stations were using RDS and none of them included any programming data. Simple call letter/frequency or slogan displays. There's one station in the Springfield, MA, area that has a very sloppy display using RDS. It looks like bad automation encoding.

> I have seen every HD and HD2 station in Detroit and Chicago
> with active name and artist.

That's terrific. When I had the IBUZ radio that wasn't the case between Boston, Albany and Hartford. When you run jockless jukeboxes, it's a good idea.

Rich
 
Several stations in the Dallas/Ft. Worth metropolis use RDS to display the song title and artist(s) name.

R

> Ummm, how many stations have you seen that use RDS for
> anything more than to display their call letters? Even
> stations with digital audio systems that export ASCII text
> if the songs are encoded rarely use it.
 
>
> The title of you post is HD Radio is making things worse for
> analog. Please tell me how it is doing that?
>

I have posted why, and have answered why. Saying why for the 1000th time is not going to do you any good. You still won't get it.
 
>
> And if a scan does stop on an empty adjacent,
> even on a non HD station, you will hear noise.
> That is standard on FM.
>


Now you are understanding. While scanning channels using an FM analog radio, more stations to stop on that have noise -- compliments of HD radio.

Finally! You got it!
 
> Several stations in the Dallas/Ft. Worth metropolis use RDS
> to display the song title and artist(s) name.

It seems a little late with IBUZ right around the corner in a couple of decades. Since the secondaries are little more than voicetracked jukeboxes (cookie-cutter radio that's killing analog, remember?). The data disply will be important when you won't hear the info from a human.

Rich
 
> > Several stations in the Dallas/Ft. Worth metropolis use
> RDS
> > to display the song title and artist(s) name.
>
> It seems a little late with IBUZ right around the corner in
> a couple of decades. Since the secondaries are little more
> than voicetracked jukeboxes (cookie-cutter radio that's
> killing analog, remember?). The data disply will be
> important when you won't hear the info from a human.
>
> Rich
>

OK Rich we know you dont like HD Radio. You have made that clear on other boards as well. For a decent sized market FM station not to be ruuning RDS, well they should be ashamed of themselves.

In regards to HD2 stations, they just got lit up. Give it a little time. There are already stations on HD2 running with full jocks and some are live (example is WJMK HD2 Chicago running with Dick Biondi in the evening time). It doesnt make sense to run live jocks on many of these stations right now. They are running commercial free for the next 1.5 years.
 
> OK Rich we know you dont like HD Radio. You have made that
> clear on other boards as well. For a decent sized market FM
> station not to be ruuning RDS, well they should be ashamed
> of themselves.

Then there should be a lot of shame in a lot of markets.

> In regards to HD2 stations, they just got lit up. Give it a
> little time. There are already stations on HD2 running with
> full jocks and some are live (example is WJMK HD2 Chicago
> running with Dick Biondi in the evening time). It doesnt
> make sense to run live jocks on many of these stations right
> now. They are running commercial free for the next 1.5
> years.

Dumb suff. Jabba the HD and the HD Dominion are expecting consumers to be enthralled with third rate programming. As I've said elswhere, you don't demonstrate HDTV with Kinescope demos and expect to sell many. That's what radio is doing with their secondaries. SIRIUS and XM had 100+ channels each up and running before the first receivers were sold. If IBUZ is our salvation we'd better take its content seriously. Before anyone starts demonstrating any of the estimated 1.5 billion receivers that'll have to be replaced we'd better have something compelling to listen to on those expensive receivers.

I think WCBS-HD2 set the stage when they expected their legendary jocks to work for less than scale. WCBS-HD2 ain't showbiz no mo.

Rich
 
my xm radio..

> > $279.95 to hear maybe 10 new channels? Where's the value
> > there. On sat radio, you can get much cheaper than 13 per
>
> > month. Sign up for a year and it's much cheaper, and you
> > gets dozens of channels.
> >
> >
> And how many dp you really listen to? Do you REALLY listen
> to DOZENS? Or do you have a few that you like.
>
> >
>
i know for me i listen to but not limited to 18 music channels and most of the sports stations. fox talk, otr, and the atlanta braves, la dodgers and cleveland indians games.. yep its worth 12.99..<P ID="signature">______________
note to the NAB..satellite radio..its worth paying for!!</P>
 
AM stereo

> > > Several stations in the Dallas/Ft. Worth metropolis use
> > RDS
> > > to display the song title and artist(s) name.
> >
> > It seems a little late with IBUZ right around the corner
> in
> > a couple of decades. Since the secondaries are little more
>
> > than voicetracked jukeboxes (cookie-cutter radio that's
> > killing analog, remember?). The data disply will be
> > important when you won't hear the info from a human.
> >
> > Rich
> >
>
> OK Rich we know you dont like HD Radio. You have made that
> clear on other boards as well. For a decent sized market FM
> station not to be ruuning RDS, well they should be ashamed
> of themselves.
>
> In regards to HD2 stations, they just got lit up. Give it a
> little time. There are already stations on HD2 running with
> full jocks and some are live (example is WJMK HD2 Chicago
> running with Dick Biondi in the evening time). It doesnt
> make sense to run live jocks on many of these stations right
> now. They are running commercial free for the next 1.5
> years.
>


in 1989 there were about 500 stations in am stereo..and it never caught on!
<P ID="signature">______________
note to the NAB..satellite radio..its worth paying for!!</P>
 
> > A lot of stations use RDS. Are you in a small market?
> 80%
> > of stations in market 33 are running active RDS.
>
> My most recent market was New York City. Is that small? Only
> a few stations were using RDS and none of them included any
> programming data. Simple call letter/frequency or slogan
> displays. There's one station in the Springfield, MA, area
> that has a very sloppy display using RDS. It looks like bad
> automation encoding.
>

You must have something wrong with your RDS receiver. Most, if not all New York stations are transmitting an RDS signal, many with song titles and artists. Some just show the titles and artists in the radio text area, rather than just the PS. Most people probably don't understand enough about RDS to press that button, if the radio has it, and I'm guessing thats a major reason why stations have started putting song titles in the PS (Program service).
 
> You must have something wrong with your RDS receiver. Most,
> if not all New York stations are transmitting an RDS signal,
> many with song titles and artists. Some just show the titles
> and artists in the radio text area, rather than just the PS.
> Most people probably don't understand enough about RDS to
> press that button, if the radio has it, and I'm guessing
> thats a major reason why stations have started putting song
> titles in the PS (Program service).

I have a Grundig Satellit 700. I've been away from NYC for about a year. Perhaps all the stations began usung RDS that recently. When I lived there all that was available were Call Letter/Slogan displays. In Western New England there's one station with a very poorly executed RDS/Title display. It's speed is agonizingly slow. The Grundig's RDS display is automatic.

In Western MA there are 4 RDS stations. One is displaying Title and artist, one LPFM is displaying a web address and the rest just slogans.

As I said, now that most stations have digital audio systems with ASCII text exports, displaying title and artist is much easier.

Which New York City stations are displaying Title/Artist?

Rich
 
> > There are probably others, but here's a good list to give
> > you an idea. I'm not at any kind of super elevation
> either,
> > in fact, I'm surrounded on most sides by 100' higher
> > elevation. Again, I know I wasn't "supposed" to hear these
>
> > stations, but hey, I'm a DXer and radio geek, and I
> enjoyed
> > hearing stations from outside the area once in a while.
>
> In most cases you list, IBUZ proponents will argue that the
> stations are well beyond their protected contours and must
> accept the interference. DX will be a thing of the past.
>
> Rich
>

And the IBOC proponents would be correct.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
> >
> > And if a scan does stop on an empty adjacent,
> > even on a non HD station, you will hear noise.
> > That is standard on FM.
> >
>
>
> Now you are understanding. While scanning channels using an
> FM analog radio, more stations to stop on that have noise --
> compliments of HD radio.
>
> Finally! You got it!
>

Actually he does, since he's right. The radios will NOT stop scanning more. I have three radios - none of them have done that.

So yes, he's got it.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
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