HD radio or even radio not a topic at CES this year!

[rbrucecarter5]

A very striking commentary was that a great deal of the new automotive systems do not have AM receivers in them! Yes folks, this trend only confirms my, and others fears about the demise of AM radio. Medium Wave is rapidly going the way of the carbon microphone.

I have some insight on this. I interviewed at a car radio design company a few years ago. They were already downsizing the AM performance because MP3 players and DVD sound required noisy microcontrollers - why have sensitive AM tuners when all they will pick up is receiver self-noise?

I could make a comment about AM IBOC jamming noise at this point, but I think that issue has already been discussed. The point about adding noise to the AM band, though, no matter what the source of the noise - it makes AM less appealing as a listening experience. Given that even communications grade tuners with IBOC decoders (Sangean HDT-1X) are about as sensitive to IBOC as a deaf ear - I just don't see that the system is workable. Perhaps all digital will work better, but given market penetration at this point - no station will be gutsy enough to switch.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/ces-hd-radios-new-portables-part-1.html

http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/ces-hd-radios-new-portables-part-2.html

Looking very carefully at these things - I don't see battery compartments. This leads me to believe that they are using rechargables like iPods. Will Orbitcast replace defective HD portables with a refurbished unit - for an exhorbitant cost - like Apple does with iPods when the battery goes bad?

One aspect of the HD table radio and HD portable radio market that troubles me. I can hear significant improvement on a component tuner when the radio switches from analog to HD. That is because it is coupled with a low distortion amp and really great speakers. No way will you be able to hear that much of an improvement on a table radio with three inch speakers, using a cheap class D or class G audio amp IC. It is NOT going to happen! And the same comment goes for HD on a portable. Maybe you have better headphones, but most iPod like devices come with pathetic earbuds! Since these portables look like iPod like devices with no speakers - I assume it will take a really good pair of headphones to notice the difference. And that is assuming the unit isn't using one of those junky IC's for audio.

That leaves HD-2 as the ONLY benefit someone would get from a portable like the ones pictured. AM - HD? You can forget it with the junky 2 inch ferrite bar in most portable radios, unless you are a mile from a 50 kW blowtorch.

 

[clouseau]

I indeed have seen no signs of HD radio at CES, even in the same places where it existed last year, mainly the North exhibit hall where the auto entertainment gear lives.

Our friends at Orbitcast are at the same CES you are, and filed these two reports today. First sentence: "HD Radio has a pretty significant presence here at CES 2008."

http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/ces-hd-radios-new-portables-part-1.html

http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/ces-hd-radios-new-portables-part-2.html

Reduced chipset HDRs, built into other devices: the key to sector growth. Check 'em out...and perhaps consider looking over some of the GPS's as well...or at least a floor map.

STOP!

It's seems this refutation of the Anti-Mob is just wrong. Clearly, Kelly is there and therefore right. Would any ANTI-HD person LIE?

http://www.radioworld.com/pages/s.0121/t.10544.html

Obviously Leslie from Radio World also lies. Lies I tell you.

Frankly I was surprised that they went from a fairly large presence last year to what appears to be nothing this year.

Frankly, I'm NOT surprised. Notice how another claim of "HD RADIO NOT AT CES" quickly turns to the benefitts of webcasting.

Clouseau

 

[RadioFixerCLE]

Looking very carefully at these things - I don't see battery compartments. This leads me to believe that they are using rechargables like iPods. Will Orbitcast replace defective HD portables with a refurbished unit - for an exhorbitant cost - like Apple does with iPods when the battery goes bad?

The second one is integrated into a telephone, and those usually have easily-replaced batteries. Whether or not replacements can be found years after the originals die out is another story.

I absolutely despise proprietary batteries.

 

[radiopilot]

http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/ces-hd-radios-new-portables-part-1.html

http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/ces-hd-radios-new-portables-part-2.html

Looking very carefully at these things - I don't see battery compartments. This leads me to believe that they are using rechargables like iPods. Will Orbitcast replace defective HD portables with a refurbished unit - for an exhorbitant cost - like Apple does with iPods when the battery goes bad?

One aspect of the HD table radio and HD portable radio market that troubles me. I can hear significant improvement on a component tuner when the radio switches from analog to HD. That is because it is coupled with a low distortion amp and really great speakers. No way will you be able to hear that much of an improvement on a table radio with three inch speakers, using a cheap class D or class G audio amp IC. It is NOT going to happen! And the same comment goes for HD on a portable. Maybe you have better headphones, but most iPod like devices come with pathetic earbuds! Since these portables look like iPod like devices with no speakers - I assume it will take a really good pair of headphones to notice the difference. And that is assuming the unit isn't using one of those junky IC's for audio.

That leaves HD-2 as the ONLY benefit someone would get from a portable like the ones pictured. AM - HD? You can forget it with the junky 2 inch ferrite bar in most portable radios, unless you are a mile from a 50 kW blowtorch.

So these new HD portables are going to take kids and adults in love with either their Ipods, Iphones, cellphones, satelite radios, etc. away and wisk them into countless commercials and ridiculous content programming as atested by all the 'radio people' constantly on these boards instead of producing 'quality content' something radio and programmers forgot somewhere!

Yeah, let's see how many of these gadgets will wind up in the hands of a generation that basically tossed terrestrial radio out the door!

But hey the MOB Madman Radiopilot doesn't know anything, just here to razzle everyone!

Radiopilot

 

[radiopilot]

I indeed have seen no signs of HD radio at CES, even in the same places where it existed last year, mainly the North exhibit hall where the auto entertainment gear lives.

Our friends at Orbitcast are at the same CES you are, and filed these two reports today. First sentence: "HD Radio has a pretty significant presence here at CES 2008."

http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/ces-hd-radios-new-portables-part-1.html

http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/ces-hd-radios-new-portables-part-2.html

Reduced chipset HDRs, built into other devices: the key to sector growth. Check 'em out...and perhaps consider looking over some of the GPS's as well...or at least a floor map.

STOP!

It's seems this refutation of the Anti-Mob is just wrong. Clearly, Kelly is there and therefore right. Would any ANTI-HD person LIE?

http://www.radioworld.com/pages/s.0121/t.10544.html

Obviously Leslie from Radio World also lies. Lies I tell you.

Frankly I was surprised that they went from a fairly large presence last year to what appears to be nothing this year.

Frankly, I'm NOT surprised. Notice how another claim of "HD RADIO NOT AT CES" quickly turns to the benefitts of webcasting.

Clouseau

Clueless Clouseau

[EDIT] I want you to stay healthy so you can witness the demise of HD in your lifetime!

Radiopilot

[EDIT-inflammatory]

 

[Mike Walker]

What you've shown is that it wasn't covered at the site, NOT that it wasn't seen at the show! I've seen several announcements about radio equipment, and HD Radio from the CES!

There's no mention of toasters at my blog http://www.hearitseeit.blogspot.com , so toasters MUST BE A DISMAL FAILURE!

 

[Radioman100]

So these new HD portables are going to take kids and adults in love with either their Ipods, Iphones, cellphones, satelite radios, etc. away and wisk them into countless commercials and ridiculous content programming as atested by all the 'radio people' constantly on these boards instead of producing 'quality content' something radio and programmers forgot somewhere!

Yeah, let's see how many of these gadgets will wind up in the hands of a generation that basically tossed terrestrial radio out the door!

But hey the MOB Madman Radiopilot doesn't know anything, just here to razzle everyone!

Radiopilot

Bitter, bitter, bitter... How on Earth does someone become this full of vitriol? What exactly did the radio industry do to you?

On one hand you claim us poor radio schulbs don't make nearly as much money as you do, yet you display fervent passion for the business. You generalize and spew hate.

Makes you wonder.

 

[radiopilot]

So these new HD portables are going to take kids and adults in love with either their Ipods, Iphones, cellphones, satelite radios, etc. away and wisk them into countless commercials and ridiculous content programming as atested by all the 'radio people' constantly on these boards instead of producing 'quality content' something radio and programmers forgot somewhere!

Yeah, let's see how many of these gadgets will wind up in the hands of a generation that basically tossed terrestrial radio out the door!

But hey the MOB Madman Radiopilot doesn't know anything, just here to razzle everyone!

Radiopilot

Bitter, bitter, bitter... How on Earth does someone become this full of vitriol? What exactly did the radio industry do to you?

On one hand you claim us poor radio schulbs don't make nearly as much money as you do, yet you display fervent passion for the business. You generalize and spew hate.

Makes you wonder.

Vitriol?

I think there's enough here from you pro HD types to bottle it and sell mass marketed!

I have no hatred for radio.. in fact I have my own side of radio in myself, it's when you pro HD types believe you know it all, and what's this about money? Did In ever ask what you or anyone here makes? If I cared one iota about radio salaries, I get this info in my radio service magazines and let me tell you I get a laugh!

Glad I choose another career but still maintain my ties to radio.

Bitter? Only words used to describe other's lament for their own failures.

Radiopilot

 

[Radioman100]

Vitriol?

I think there's enough here from you pro HD types to bottle it and sell mass marketed!

I have no hatred for radio.. in fact I have my own side of radio in myself, it's when you pro HD types believe you know it all, and what's this about money? Did In ever ask what you or anyone here makes? If I cared one iota about radio salaries, I get this info in my radio service magazines and let me tell you I get a laugh!

Glad I choose another career but still maintain my ties to radio.

Bitter? Only words used to describe other's lament for their own failures.

Radiopilot

Are you aware that this site makes it really easy to look at anyone's past posts? I went back and looked at yours. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your "own side of radio" is a part 15. Is all this anger of yours because HD Radio isn't practical for a part 15 broadcaster?

 

[clouseau]

Bitter, bitter, bitter... How on Earth does someone become this full of vitriol? What exactly did the radio industry do to you?

Vitriol?

I have no hatred for radio...

Then you should keep your kids away from the computer because they posted...

[EDIT-inflammatory]

you HD pro types don't even have a clue

then we would see how all you guys would be out of work scratching at XM/Sirius or the thousands of internet radio sites looking for work

a sorry sour bunch you guys are!

that is if you can stop the laughing about thinking you are some type of 'expert' here!

Clueless Clouseau,

in the last 48 hours. Maybe your hatred for radio is hereditary and you gave it to your kids.

Glad I choose another career

I'm glad you chose another career, too.

Thanks for keeping the country safe as a military contractor/consultant/ whatever the heck it is.. you do. Seriously, I mean it. No BS.

But please feel free to take your lips off the Government teat and start worrying about making a payroll/ getting that additional ratings point/ Keeping your killer morning talent off of coke, before you dictate to people who make a living off of radio how to make a living. I routinely listen to people who are in our audience. I routinely listen to people who I would LIKE to have in our audience. I routinely PAY to have OTHERS listen to our prospective audience. Could it be that I might be doing a better job of programming to the masses than someone who rins a 1/10th of a watt AM? That's 1/100th the power of a TIS/HAR, right? Who pays you WHAT to do your radio job?

If you really think radio is that bad then listen to your IPod/Sirius/XM/Wifi/Mp3's and vote with your selector knob. If you have abandoned radio, along with your entire family and everyone you have ever met, then simply GO AWAY. No insult intended, just reality. If you think radio is still viable and you're actually running a 1/10th of a watt station and you rule the world - good for you. Either way, you don't get much cred with ANYONE as a PT-15 guy who doesn't listen to the radio...

Bitter? Only words used to describe other's lament for their own failures.

If you say so. Here's a fair question. Are the "Radio People" here bitter about their jobs?

I'm not. I make over 50% less than when I worked in another field. And I'm 200% more stressed. But I'm making it work and having a good time.

I ALSO have "Broadcasting" in the title of the account holder of my paycheck. Maybe I AM nuts.

"It's easy to know evertything there is to know about radio, when you're fixing helicopters for a living."

To actually make it work feels great.

Do I sound bitter?

Clouseau

 

[radiopilot]

Vitriol?

I think there's enough here from you pro HD types to bottle it and sell mass marketed!

I have no hatred for radio.. in fact I have my own side of radio in myself, it's when you pro HD types believe you know it all, and what's this about money? Did In ever ask what you or anyone here makes? If I cared one iota about radio salaries, I get this info in my radio service magazines and let me tell you I get a laugh!

Glad I choose another career but still maintain my ties to radio.

Bitter? Only words used to describe other's lament for their own failures.

Radiopilot

Are you aware that this site makes it really easy to look at anyone's past posts? I went back and looked at yours. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your "own side of radio" is a part 15. Is all this anger of yours because HD Radio isn't practical for a part 15 broadcaster?

What a revelation, you get the 'Clouseau Cookie Award and a silver star' for your computer efforts, life who gives a 'SSSS' what I have or don't have, most people on this board and others already know I run a part15 station, does this give me any less knowledge in radio than someone like you that works for peanuts for someone else?

Gotta hand it to you pro-HD types, when all else fails attack the person personally, no wonder people are being driven away from radio, it's people like you doing it!

Radiopilot

 

[radiopilot]

Bitter, bitter, bitter... How on Earth does someone become this full of vitriol? What exactly did the radio industry do to you?

Vitriol?

I have no hatred for radio...

Then you should keep your kids away from the computer because they posted...

[EDIT-inflammatory]

you HD pro types don't even have a clue

then we would see how all you guys would be out of work scratching at XM/Sirius or the thousands of internet radio sites looking for work

a sorry sour bunch you guys are!

that is if you can stop the laughing about thinking you are some type of 'expert' here!

Clueless Clouseau,

in the last 48 hours. Maybe your hatred for radio is hereditary and you gave it to your kids.

Glad I choose another career

I'm glad you chose another career, too.

Thanks for keeping the country safe as a military contractor/consultant/ whatever the heck it is.. you do. Seriously, I mean it. No BS.

But please feel free to take your lips off the Government teat and start worrying about making a payroll/ getting that additional ratings point/ Keeping your killer morning talent off of coke, before you dictate to people who make a living off of radio how to make a living. I routinely listen to people who are in our audience. I routinely listen to people who I would LIKE to have in our audience. I routinely PAY to have OTHERS listen to our prospective audience. Could it be that I might be doing a better job of programming to the masses than someone who rins a 1/10th of a watt AM? That's 1/100th the power of a TIS/HAR, right? Who pays you WHAT to do your radio job?

If you really think radio is that bad then listen to your IPod/Sirius/XM/Wifi/Mp3's and vote with your selector knob. If you have abandoned radio, along with your entire family and everyone you have ever met, then simply GO AWAY. No insult intended, just reality. If you think radio is still viable and you're actually running a 1/10th of a watt station and you rule the world - good for you. Either way, you don't get much cred with ANYONE as a PT-15 guy who doesn't listen to the radio...

Bitter? Only words used to describe other's lament for their own failures.

If you say so. Here's a fair question. Are the "Radio People" here bitter about their jobs?

I'm not. I make over 50% less than when I worked in another field. And I'm 200% more stressed. But I'm making it work and having a good time.

I ALSO have "Broadcasting" in the title of the account holder of my paycheck. Maybe I AM nuts.

"It's easy to know evertything there is to know about radio, when you're fixing helicopters for a living."

To actually make it work feels great.

Do I sound bitter?

Clouseau

[EDIT]

As far as Govenment teat, dude, I work on the NEW PRESIDENTIAL HELICOPTOR, is that something you have on your resume? As far as abandoning my family? Where do you get the balls for that comment?

Clueless Clouseau, if anyone is to believe you have a REAL station post the call letters here so that we can prove you do so, otherwise shutup and install the HD equipment as Savage has suggested to you and PROVE you're into HD as your mouth spews it!

Like I said, board operators, engineers in the back room, radio station janitors, radio station grounds keepers, etc. are not the VOICE of radio and know just as much as the average guy, now my radio station was built from the ground up and rivals some licensed studios, albiet not the power, but hey what the 'XXXX' do I know, and the 4 years at a college radio means nothing to you, fine... I can live with that, but who gives a rats ass over what's on your paycheck or bank account!

Really get a grip and continue your rant!

Sure this will be taken to the TIO board and I hope it does but the message stays the same!

Radiopilot


[EDIT-inflammatory]

 

[Radioman100]

Ahhh... The leopard shows his spots!

First, I believe Clouseau was making a joke. You claimed you didn't say any of this stuff, so he said your kids must have snuck in and posted it while you were logged in. He just as easily could have said your garden gnome did it, but it wouldn't have made quite as much sense. More comical maybe, but not as believable.

Second, did I call it or what when I said you were hung up on money! Not that it matters in the least, but I'm an engineer for a group of stations in a top 10 market, and I also handle a lot of regional and national projects for my company. I know you think we're all po' broke radio folk, but I do just fine.

As far as your job goes, I'm surprised you're here bragging about it. A relative of mine is a vendor to one of the companies bidding on the project, and he said security is very tight. Odd that you'd brag about it on a chat board that may get crawled by government security spiders.

 

[radiopilot]

Ahhh... The leopard shows his spots!

First, I believe Clouseau was making a joke. You claimed you didn't say any of this stuff, so he said your kids must have snuck in and posted it while you were logged in. He just as easily could have said your garden gnome did it, but it wouldn't have made quite as much sense. More comical maybe, but not as believable.

Second, did I call it or what when I said you were hung up on money! Not that it matters in the least, but I'm an engineer for a group of stations in a top 10 market, and I also handle a lot of regional and national projects for my company. I know you think we're all po' broke radio folk, but I do just fine.

As far as your job goes, I'm surprised you're here bragging about it. A relative of mine is a vendor to one of the companies bidding on the project, and he said security is very tight. Odd that you'd brag about it on a chat board that may get crawled by government security spiders.

[EDIT]

As far as my job, it's not clearance issue with saying I'm a propulsion engineer and consult with Sikorsky, General Electric, Boeing, NASA, Lockheed Martin and other military contracts, but hey what do I know, if it's posted on my resume then there's nothing to say it can't be said anywhere, security tight, what do you know?

As far as you being an engineer for some top ten market, GOOD for you, hope it makes you happy, but by the way you and Clouseau and others posts here and the frequency of it, it makes me wonder if you do have those positions, shouldn't you be screwing some cable in or soldering some resistor somewhere, instead of being on these boards as much as you all do? Like I said it's this type of activity that makes radio SUCK at major broadcast stations, instead of doing quality programming you're here bashing others... get back to work and get that station listened to by your listeners, they deserve it!

Radiopilot


[EDIT-off topic]

 

[Mike Walker]

I can vouch that Radiopilot is in fact a "repulsion engineer". I'm repulsed. Anybody else? (KIDDING!)

 

[radiopilot]

I can vouch that Radiopilot is in fact a "repulsion engineer". I'm repulsed. Anybody else? (KIDDING!)

I can 'see' you can't 'see' anything about any topic above but to continue the harrasment.

Signed off Repulsive Engineer...

 

[Radioman100]

As far as you being an engineer for some top ten market, GOOD for you, hope it makes you happy, but by the way you and Clouseau and others posts here and the frequency of it, it makes me wonder if you do have those positions, shouldn't you be screwing some cable in or soldering some resistor somewhere, instead of being on these boards as much as you all do? Like I said it's this type of activity that makes radio SUCK at major broadcast stations, instead of doing quality programming you're here bashing others... get back to work and get that station listened to by your listeners, they deserve it!

Likewise, I shudder to think someone supposedly working on the Presidential helicopter spends as much time here as you do.

As far as my stations go, they're fine thanks. If you're proactive instead of reactive about technical issues, you tend to enjoy some downtime.

 

[clouseau]

As far as abandoning my family? Where do you get the balls for that comment?

In your state of mind, You misinterpreted my "Not particularly clearly written" comment. I wrote...

If you have abandoned radio, along with your entire family and everyone you have ever met, then simply GO AWAY.


What I probably should have written was...

If you, along with your entire family and everyone you've ever met, have abandoned radio, then simply GO AWAY.

The meaning was intended to be the same. Apologies if you took it a different way.

Clueless Clouseau, if anyone is to believe you have a REAL station post the call letters here so that we can prove you do so.

there are folks on the board who know who I am. If you chose to believe I do not do what I say I do - so be it.

My address and phone numbers, along with significant details of my life, are available to anyone who knows who I am, in the FCC database. Based on exchanges such as this one, I'll pass.

otherwise shutup and install the HD equipment as Savage has suggested to you and PROVE you're into HD as your mouth spews it!

I have posted the decisions we've made about HD and why elsewhere on this board. I really see no reason to PROVE anything.

Like I said, board operators, engineers in the back room, radio station janitors, radio station grounds keepers, etc. are not the VOICE of radio and know just as much as the average guy, now my radio station was built from the ground up and rivals some licensed studios, albiet not the power, but hey what the 'XXXX' do I know, and the 4 years at a college radio means nothing to you, fine...

You are just blasting the shotgun up in the air hoping you can hit something. Do you golf? I do. But the fact is, I'm not all that good. Certainly not good enough to earn a living playing golf. My point is, Your college radio experience and hobby Pt-15 station is cool and fun, but there's more to the business than that. A LOT MORE. I've SEEN the Presidential Helicopter. I don't think that qualifies me to give advice on how to maintain it. Apparently, you do that and I would assume HAVE those qualifications. It's very similar. It's just possible there's a little more to the picture than you're aware of.

who gives a rats ass over what's on your paycheck or bank account!

I only posted that to attempt to point out that just maybe, people who are paid to make radio work, might understand a little more of the business aspect of radio than you. You've chosen to shoot into the air again and infer I'm a radio janitor, a groundskeeper or whatever.

Whatever floats you boat I guess.

It is my intention to not respond to this thread again. I think I'll just go and empty the trashcans.

Clouseau

 

[rbrucecarter5]

WHERE is the moderator of this board? I am no fan of IBOC interference and jamming, but I at least try to respect people of the other opinion on here.

It would appear that there is a significant HD radio presence at CES. That is a fact.

It would appear that there are some HD portables at CES. Limited to ten hour battery life, but then I have to wonder what the battery life was on the 22.5 Regency transistor radio battery when it was introduced in 1954. Some early technical progress on portables - lets hope they get a lot better in time to save the whole concept - if you want HD radio to survive, that is.

I still have my doubts about how well AM IBOC would do on a portable with a tiny ferrite bar antenna.