HD Radio-The lights are still on, but no one's home or listening.

[SUPERCASTER]

Have you heard the all news stations promoting HD radio with iPod tagging for their listeners?

I just love downloading and listening to all those old news stories, weather, sports, time checks, commercial clusters, sounders, and jingles over and over again on my iPod. Apparently there are not enough employees left to care or monitor their own stations for relevance.

Will the last employee quickly leave the station and turn off the computer, lights, and carrier. Also please remember to board up all windows and lock the door.

 

[Chuck]

I’m in Ireland this week. I was curious to see what digital radio was like over here, so I took a few minutes to visit a fairly large consumer electronics store. They were selling about a half dozen DAB radios that use Eureka 127. None of them were connected, so I was unable to hear what it sounded like. In fact, all the digital radios were behind the door of a locked glass display case. Elsewhere in the store, there were a ton of iPod capable docking stations, some with an analog radio, some without. One of them even had a tube type amplifier. None of them were locked behind a glass case. Most of the other radios on display were very retro designs, made to look like vintage receivers. They were analog only. I asked the clerk about them, who replied, “Nobody buys a plain radio. Most buy the iPod stations, maybe with a radio. The rest buy these vintage look-alikes.”

He also pointed me to the Internet Radio display. No glass cases here. There were three on display, all of them connected up, and all working. I easily tuned in my own radio station on each one. The clerk said they were selling “reasonably well.” One of them, which carried the brand name “Roberts”, was exactly the same as the Sangean Internet radio.

From this casual observation point, it appears to me that interest in digital radio is about the same (maybe a bit more enthusiastic) than it is at home. Right now, it looks to me like radio will indeed be digital, but I have my doubts about the method of delivery. As the Internet matures and bandwidth becomes more available (and cheaper) there may not be much of a contest.

By the way, I’m writing this while logged on to a free Internet connection in Ireland. It isn’t free everywhere, in fact, it is quite expensive in some places, just like at home, but I suspect that will eventually change.

 

[DToTheJ]

Have you heard the all news stations promoting HD radio with iPod tagging for their listeners?

I just love downloading and listening to all those old news stories, weather, sports, time checks, commercial clusters, sounders, and jingles over and over again on my iPod. Apparently there are not enough employees left to care or monitor their own stations for relevance.

I'm sure the news stations' sister stations which feature music run them at least three times as often as on the spoken-word outlets, and perhaps there might be a "freebie" or two run on the news station.

[BEEP]
Hey, it's your radio... Is this advertising campaign annoying yet?

(Pockets!)

 

[Carmine5]

Hey, no wonder we haven't heard from Tom Ray in while. He's gone and written a book on HD Radio.

Why give information away on some old radio discussion board when you can sell it at $90.00 a pop.

http://www.rwonline.com/pages/s.0044/t.13088.html

C5

 

[KB1OKL]

Tow also knows very well how to send a 30 khz wide band of noise halfway across the US every night and still sleep, amazing. Takes balls and he's got 'em and he's not afraid to say it either.This begs the question though, is it really balls or is it really just insensitivity ;D?

 

[calstymes]

KB1OKL conjectured:

Tom also knows very well how to send a 30 khz wide band of noise halfway across the US every night and still sleep, amazing. Takes balls and he's got 'em and he's not afraid to say it either. This begs the question though, is it really balls or is it really just insensitivity Grin?

Regardless of what we might think about AM HD, at a time when several of us were reaching out and looking for some professionals to come on here and tell us WHY this technology was something that we wanted and/or needed, RF Burns suggested that I contact Tom privately via email and engage him in some conversation about the subject. Not only was Tom nice enough to reply privately to me but he was also active here for a relatively short while in an effort to answer people's questions about AM HD and comment about the hot topics of the day.

That being said, I was ultimately disappointed because he was never able to come out and say, "Yes, this technology is fantastic and I would recommend for everyone to upgrade to AM HD!". Ultimately, he dropped out of sight, possibly because for him, it was like trying to speak to a group of children.

It is nice to know that he is still around and interested enough in this technology to write a book. Broadcast engineers are really smart people and hopefully this will help AM HD become a "better product" (if that is even possible). And hopefully, iBiquity will be as loyal to Tom as he has been to them.

 

[Dighton Rockhead]

Hey, no wonder we haven't heard from Tom Ray in while. He's gone and written a book on HD Radio.
Why give information away on some old radio discussion board when you can sell it at $90.00 a pop.
http://www.rwonline.com/pages/s.0044/t.13088.html
C5

Good Luck to Tom and the Boston Red Sox......At least he's actually figured out a way to make some money from AM IBOC......something I don't think any station that has installed it can say.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Hey, no wonder we haven't heard from Tom Ray in while. He's gone and written a book on HD Radio.

Why give information away on some old radio discussion board when you can sell it at $90.00 a pop.

http://www.rwonline.com/pages/s.0044/t.13088.html

C5

A quote from the RW article:

"He says he has been insulted, harassed, stalked, threatened and accused of killing AM radio; and he addresses those experiences briefly."

WHAT???? I had every intention of coming on here and defending him for being gracious on this board. But a claim like that? There are a lot of opponents on this board, including me. I haven't seen a single one do anything like those things. Nobody on here hurls more than one insult at him, because even opponents like myself are quick to leap to his defense.

When I read those other things - I wonder what sort of nutcase fanatical DX'er he could have encountered? Most everybody I have met in the DX community are highly technical, intelligent hobbyists. Certainly upset by HD AM - but not the sort of people to take to terrorism over it. If he's been harassed and stalked - then he needs to get restraining orders and file charges, because the one doing it is a nutcase. But the way that sentence sounds - it sounds like everybody who dares to question HD radio is criminal. And that accusation lumps everybody who opposes HD AM together, and is very self-serving by pro-IBOC people. Ibquity stooges now have another weapon in their arsenal of personal attacks, not only are all DX'ers supposed to be out of touch, elderly, outmoded individuals holding up progress - NOW they will start saying we are DANGEROUS. Why not just go ahead and call us "HDphobes" while they are at it, then we can have a new, fabricated mental illness (that doesn't really exist) along with being outmoded, out of touch, behind the times, and dangerous. That tactic worked for homosexuals, why not for HD advocates, too?

 

[Carmine5]

Hey, no wonder we haven't heard from Tom Ray in while. He's gone and written a book on HD Radio.

Why give information away on some old radio discussion board when you can sell it at $90.00 a pop.

http://www.rwonline.com/pages/s.0044/t.13088.html

C5

A quote from the RW article:

"He says he has been insulted, harassed, stalked, threatened and accused of killing AM radio; and he addresses those experiences briefly."

WHAT???? I had every intention of coming on here and defending him for being gracious on this board. But a claim like that? There are a lot of opponents on this board, including me. I haven't seen a single one do anything like those things. Nobody on here hurls more than one insult at him, because even opponents like myself are quick to leap to his defense.

When I read those other things - I wonder what sort of nutcase fanatical DX'er he could have encountered? Most everybody I have met in the DX community are highly technical, intelligent hobbyists. Certainly upset by HD AM - but not the sort of people to take to terrorism over it. If he's been harassed and stalked - then he needs to get restraining orders and file charges, because the one doing it is a nutcase. But the way that sentence sounds - it sounds like everybody who dares to question HD radio is criminal. And that accusation lumps everybody who opposes HD AM together, and is very self-serving by pro-IBOC people. Ibquity stooges now have another weapon in their arsenal of personal attacks, not only are all DX'ers supposed to be out of touch, elderly, outmoded individuals holding up progress - NOW they will start saying we are DANGEROUS. Why not just go ahead and call us "HDphobes" while they are at it, then we can have a new, fabricated mental illness (that doesn't really exist) along with being outmoded, out of touch, behind the times, and dangerous. That tactic worked for homosexuals, why not for HD advocates, too?

He may or may not be referring to this board. I went back and read the thread of the discussion involving Tom and it seemed as if everyone behaved well. I don't think he won any converts among the HD Radio non-believers but it appeared that everyone (or most everyone) was respectful of him.

If memory serves me right, didn't he provide engineering data a couple of years ago for a dispute between two New York AM stations; one station, a rimshot, complained that they could no longer get their signal into New York City because the other station, a NYC station on a adjacent channel, was broadcasting in HD? I think it was Tom who showed that there was no IBOC interference to the complaining station's protected contour.

If that is case, then I'm sure he caught some flack over that in some circles. But I may have the story wrong. Maybe somebody help me out on that.

C5

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

A quote from the RW article:

"He says he has been insulted, harassed, stalked, threatened and accused of killing AM radio; and he addresses those experiences briefly."

WHAT???? I had every intention of coming on here and defending him for being gracious on this board. But a claim like that? There are a lot of opponents on this board, including me. I haven't seen a single one do anything like those things. Nobody on here hurls more than one insult at him, because even opponents like myself are quick to leap to his defense.

When I read those other things - I wonder what sort of nutcase fanatical DX'er he could have encountered? Most everybody I have met in the DX community are highly technical, intelligent hobbyists. Certainly upset by HD AM - but not the sort of people to take to terrorism over it. If he's been harassed and stalked - then he needs to get restraining orders and file charges, because the one doing it is a nutcase. But the way that sentence sounds - it sounds like everybody who dares to question HD radio is criminal. And that accusation lumps everybody who opposes HD AM together, and is very self-serving by pro-IBOC people. Ibquity stooges now have another weapon in their arsenal of personal attacks, not only are all DX'ers supposed to be out of touch, elderly, outmoded individuals holding up progress - NOW they will start saying we are DANGEROUS. Why not just go ahead and call us "HDphobes" while they are at it, then we can have a new, fabricated mental illness (that doesn't really exist) along with being outmoded, out of touch, behind the times, and dangerous. That tactic worked for homosexuals, why not for HD advocates, too?

First, before we go too far over the top: Tom Ray has the respect of virtually everyone I know in the broadcast engineering community, including me.

I don't believe Tom mentioned specifically in which medium he was being harassed, and being a subscriber to several other message boards dealing with radio and a few remailer systems, I believe I know which group of thugs was responsible for his making that statement. One of the AM stereo sites/boards has been on a relentless campaign to destroy the reputation of anyone who dares to speak up in favor of HD on AM, and Tom made the unfortunate mistake of subscribing to that board and answering the charges...making himself a target in the process. These people take it way past the worst that anyone has posted here, and their attacks are ad hominem, not ad rem. The quote you posted is, unfortunately, no exaggeration.

Late in 2002, Tom wrote an article for RW about his experience adding HD to WOR. In that article, he wrote:

"Negative comments also have come from a group of AM stereo fanatics in New Jersey. These people live for the day AM stereo makes a comeback. They are not listening on typical AM radios. They have verbally and personally attacked both Kerry and me, as well as the radio station and Ibiquity."

So, there's the probable basis for Tom's statement, quoted from the recent RW article.

 

[Tom Wells]

Oh yeah, the site that says no iboc proponents allowed.. I've seen the front door but never walked in.
Though I do love CQUAM, and still dream of a high-q antenna tuning crcuit to do upper/lower stereo AM here at home.
Maybe a 455 khz oscillator and some stagger-tuned L-R phaser then multiply up to output frequency...?
Re-invent Kahn stereo here at home... maybe just a wired 455 khz stagger-peaked feed to the two living room 1936 philcos
for the stereo studio monitor and leave 1620 as a mono...
What's the lowest output you could set a Kahn stereo or C-Quam box to output?


Anyway, Tom Ray was most gracious, and provided the one clearest answer I ever heard from any proponent.

I related that I was sure my inductive tuned radio in my car was drift-free, yet my perfect center tuning to cancel the hiss would not stay
canceled. He said the sideband balance is not uniform from place to place, and in fact as seen by the radio, it changes, necessitating
frequent retuning to cancel them if best cancelling is desired. I don't recall how long ago this was but since then I think ibiquity has upgraded many of the AMs to a system with far less energy in the lower sidebands, or somehow balancing them better, and at the same time permitting better high-frequency response. Chaicago big AMs got it last august.

I drove to northern Wisconsin and last week friday and noticed this same improvement now applied to WOKY 920 which I had noticed an
improvement at 90 miles earlier in the week, and attributed it that day to WLS iboc being off.
It was not because of WLS iboc being off, they are really improved. WOKY is the only AM I ever hear in HD that plays music which I
know well enough to know exactly how it should sound (oldies).
I have to say at least I can clearly hear the sibilant info now even at 90 miles, and in town (Milwaukee) it is far more intelligible and listenable.
At distance, way out of market, totally listenable with a sensitive radio.

I'll go so far as to say it's less objectionable in a music format than news/talk where the hiss protrudes in the natural sliences.
Full-bore cram-full audio production with high modulation means there's not much chance to hear the hiss.
Anyway they sound better, and I would hope this issue raised here led to Tom Ray giving such feedback to ibiquity to address the problem.

I can now listen to Chicago AM without writhing in pain. The hiss is still there but far less invasive to the mid-range audio of the
decoded analog. First and second adjacents are still totally wiped, of course.

There were a few who could not quite drop their shtick enough to respect his time and trouble to be here.
I can see how the atmosphere at that time might not make him want to stay too long.

 

[KB1OKL]

KB1OKL conjectured:

Tom also knows very well how to send a 30 khz wide band of noise halfway across the US every night and still sleep, amazing. Takes balls and he's got 'em and he's not afraid to say it either. This begs the question though, is it really balls or is it really just insensitivity Grin?

Regardless of what we might think about AM HD, at a time when several of us were reaching out and looking for some professionals to come on here and tell us WHY this technology was something that we wanted and/or needed, RF Burns suggested that I contact Tom privately via email and engage him in some conversation about the subject. Not only was Tom nice enough to reply privately to me but he was also active here for a relatively short while in an effort to answer people's questions about AM HD and comment about the hot topics of the day.

That being said, I was ultimately disappointed because he was never able to come out and say, "Yes, this technology is fantastic and I would recommend for everyone to upgrade to AM HD!". Ultimately, he dropped out of sight, possibly because for him, it was like trying to speak to a group of children.

It is nice to know that he is still around and interested enough in this technology to write a book. Broadcast engineers are really smart people and hopefully this will help AM HD become a "better product" (if that is even possible). And hopefully, iBiquity will be as loyal to Tom as he has been to them.

Tom is also a member of the NRC, an AM DX club, oldest in the country and took (and gave) a lot of flack over there a few years ago, in fact the acrimony almost destroyed the reflector which is still very small to this day. That is where I remember the balls comment from I'm pretty sure. I don't know if something or somebody drove him over the edge of civility there but he definitely crossed it. I'm sure he is a great engineer but when he gets behind a destructive method of radio delivery and cares not one whit whom he mows down in the process he will get little respect. If someone becomes one of the most visible technical spokespersons for a highly controversial and overwhelmingly negatively criticized broadcast mode, he had better be able to withstand the heat or get out of the kitchen. I guess he really doesn't have the balls he claimed he had in one of his posts if he's whining about the terrible treatment he got.
If he got death threats, yes of course that is crazy and anyone doing that should be arrested and thrown in the clink, but then again what about a company and people who act like the mob does, gets the FCC with an incompetant kid in charge on their side, gets a legal monopoly which is almost universally hated and/or ignored, tries to completely change radio for profit despite the obvious animosity toward both IBOC and the purveyors and pushers of this junk, and worst of all despite the obvious fact that it is overwhelmingly a failure to all but a few fanatics, continues to push it??
Didn't Al Capone get the Chicago police and politicians on his side so he could operate with almost complete impunity? What is so different between Capone and company and iNiquity and company besides the fact that iNiquity pursued their takeover legally? They are both are out for themselves and don't care who gets in the way. Tom became a very visible target when he decided to ruin WOR.

 

[Tom Wells]

The difference with Al Capone and co. is that he was just trying to help people get a beer.
People actually wanted beer.

A toast to Mr Capone! with BEER!

If you're ever here in Chicago, I can show you a little street near my house where all the houses were built by the mob. They counted and divided the butter and egg money there.

 

[KB1OKL]

The difference with Al Capone and co. is that he was just trying to help people get a beer.
People actually wanted beer.

A toast to Mr Capone! with BEER!

If you're ever here in Chicago, I can show you a little street near my house where all the houses were built by the mob. They counted and divided the butter and egg money there.

haha!