Hearing San Diego radio stations in Los Angeles

[K.M. Richards]

Do you happen to know how 94.1 got authorized at a much higher power than the other Soledad FM's?

KMYI originally went on the air as KFSD-FM in 1949, before the FM classes were established with power limits.

That happened in the early 1960s, and all stations already on the air with facilities exceeding the new classes were grandfathered in, provided they did not change transmitter sites. At that point, what was then KOGO-FM qualified for grandfathering.

This is also why there are a lot of stations on Mt. Wilson in L.A. which exceed the normal ERP for that height.

 

[Signal Geek]

My autotype went nuts...KLNV not KLQV is the one not on Mt Soledad. And it's KBZT not KMZT.

Yes, and sorry: I repeated those typos in my later post

 

[e-dawg]

Speaking of power limits I heard that 105.3 KIOz used to broadcast at the Bank of America building and with a power of 125,000 watts. Does anybody know why they were force to move to mt Soledad and downgrade their power?

 

[Yabadabado1]

As mentioned in an earlier thread, back between 1959 and 1963 when I lived in NE Ohio, I heard these LA area frequencies there:

570, 640, 710, 740, 790, 930, 980. 1020, 1070, 1110, 1150, 1190, 1280, 1330, 1390, 1480, 1540, 1580, 1600.

Mountains are really not in the way of AM skip, unless they are a nearby barrier. For example, when I lived in Quito at 9800 feet there were 13,000 to 14,000 foot mountains just a few miles to the west of where I lived. So I never heard Hawaii, Australia, New Zealand and the like. But I did hear many countries from Europe and Africa, and a bunch of Class IV 250 watt US "graveyarders" from the Dakotas, Montana and surrounding states.

It's been almost 50 years since I sat in my first car DXing. I'm sure there's quite a few that I've heard and forgotten who/what/where they were from. I distinctly can recall the two from California & KOA from Denver on 850, which was weird seeing as how what's now WKNR in Cleveland was on that frequency. Must have been a good night for skip. I was amazed because those stations were the ones furthest west I had ever picked up, Before that, I think one was from North Dakota....Fargo probably. When I moved back to Florida for a while in early 80s tried DXing but mostly was picking up what I assume where Cuban stations jamming the frequencies. Or they could have been Mexican stations, I was right on the Gulf.The only thing stranger was in the 90s sitting at home one morning watching TV when a plane went flying by my house and all of sudden I was picking up a Denver TV station. Once the plane was out of range of my house it flipped back to whatever local station I was watching.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

Speaking of power limits I heard that 105.3 KIOz used to broadcast at the Bank of America building and with a power of 125,000 watts. Does anybody know why they were force to move to mt Soledad and downgrade their power?

IF a station is grandfathered in, it can at that level until they move/change sites.

 

[The New Chico]

Speaking of power limits I heard that 105.3 KIOz used to broadcast at the Bank of America building and with a power of 125,000 watts. Does anybody know why they were force to move to mt Soledad and downgrade their power?

High power without much height generally equals really nasty mutlipath. They probably were "forced" off the building due to physics. And as others haven mentioned, once you move the transmitter site, you are no longer grandfathered in.

Sometimes, though, it can be something as simple as a rent increase. FMs didn't generally make much money in the 60s and 70s.

 

[K.M. Richards]

I think that was an oversimplification that doesn't really answer @e-dawg's question, Paul.

What is now KIOZ first signed on in 1954 as KSON-FM at 104.7 with 14kw. After two frequency changes and three changes of call letters, they ended up as KITT on 105.3 in 1958, which is when they moved to the BofA building and went to 120kw. Because that move preceded the establishment of FM classes and power levels for each, they were grandfathered in with their present facilities ... just like KFSD-FM in my post #21 above.

As near as I can determine, the change in facilities took place shortly after KITT became KCBQ-FM (circa 1989-90). My guess is that even with the higher ERP, they couldn't cover the entire market as it grew, so they took the power hit to move to Soledad ... nothing "forced" about it, unless you count "market forces".

 

[michael hagerty]

I think that was an oversimplification that doesn't really answer @e-dawg's question, Paul.

What is now KIOZ first signed on in 1954 as KSON-FM at 104.7 with 14kw. After two frequency changes and three changes of call letters, they ended up as KITT on 105.3 in 1958, which is when they moved to the BofA building and went to 120kw. Because that move preceded the establishment of FM classes and power levels for each, they were grandfathered in with their present facilities ... just like KFSD-FM in my post #21 above.

As near as I can determine, the change in facilities took place shortly after KITT became KCBQ-FM (circa 1989-90). My guess is that even with the higher ERP, they couldn't cover the entire market as it grew, so they took the power hit to move to Soledad ... nothing "forced" about it, unless you count "market forces".

North County growth has been explosive the past 40 years.

 

[K.M. Richards]

High power without much height generally equals really nasty mutlipath. They probably were "forced" off the building due to physics. And as others haven mentioned, once you move the transmitter site, you are no longer grandfathered in.

Sometimes, though, it can be something as simple as a rent increase. FMs didn't generally make much money in the 60s and 70s.

I would have addressed this in my post, but apparently it posted while I was still composing mine.

Yes, the laws of physics did probably apply, but not so much a multipath issue is that going higher caused a wider signal footprint even with lower power. As Mike added, that happened at a point where North County in particular was growing and I can easily imagine the facilities on the BofA building not getting much farther than Poway or Solana Beach; as it is, they go as far north as Fallbrook and Camp Pendleton with the present facilities.

I sincerely doubt that the building rent was much of a factor either. By the time this happened, KCBQ-AM/FM was on the verge of a significant success as an Oldies station and that coincided with the increased use of FM, so I suspect then-owners Eric-Chandler Communications wouldn't have had trouble paying the rent.

 

[ayoda]

A comment about the San Diego AMs and the LA market. When the NHL Kings were looking for a radio home -- before the arrival of Wayne Gretzky -- they had trouble finding a local flagship station. I seem to remember AM 1150 was the radio home, in those days they were 5 kW days / 1 kW nights, which limited their reach. The Kings wound up on San Diego's AM 600 KOGO, the signal sailing into LA. I don't think the arrangement lasted very long, but I did find it interesting back then. Similarly, "The Mighty 690" intially identified itself as an LA station even though the station was broadcasting from Tijuana, with San Diego just being in the "path" of Los Angeles, before the station modified its ID as a "Southern California" station.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Similarly, "The Mighty 690" intially identified itself as an LA station even though the station was broadcasting from Tijuana, with San Diego just being in the "path" of Los Angeles, before the station modified its ID as a "Southern California" station.

Even before that, Alan, we must remember that the legendary Gordon McLendon used 690 for "XTRA News over Los Angeles."

 

[yeoldeschool]

The only LA station I've ever gotten was KNX, it was solid during the daytime in North Dakota about 15 years ago. Never heard any SD stations but I did get in a station from Monterrey, Mexico last year here in Kansas.

There were times in SE WY I could heard KNX All day in the winter... now, mind you... at 1230, 1pm.. itd barely be a gurgle above the noise floor, but it was there.

Daytime reception of KNX all the way up there, as in groundwave? At noon?

That's amazing! And I say that with the full Huell Howser accent.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

Daytime reception of KNX all the way up there, as in groundwave? At noon?

That's amazing! And I say that with the full Huell Howser accent.

Notice i said WY, not AK but yes... in winter, sometimes i could have at least a carrier and enough to tell there was audio in the bzzzz and sssssshhhh noise

 

[davideduardo]

Notice i said WY, not AK but yes... in winter, sometimes i could have at least a carrier and enough to tell there was audio in the bzzzz and sssssshhhh noise

When conditions are right, AM can cover great daytime distances. My favorite was during a CONELRAD test in the very early 60's when all AM stations were off or sharing 640 and 1240, I heard a high band station from Manitoba, Canada in Cleveland, Ohio at noon, around noon local time.

 

[Yabadabado1]

When conditions are right, AM can cover great daytime distances. My favorite was during a CONELRAD test in the very early 60's when all AM stations were off or sharing 640 and 1240, I heard a high band station from Manitoba, Canada in Cleveland, Ohio at noon, around noon local time.

I was in elementary school in the early 60s and vaguely remember those CONELRAD tests usually done while school was in session so I didn't hear many. What I remember vividly were those damn "duck & cover" drills three times a week. Lived just across the bay from MacDill air force base which was supposedly one of the first places to be nuked if we got in a war with the "commies" so therefore the three times a week drill. I thought it was stupid because we had windows from ceiling to almost floor, maybe two or three cinder blocks in height at floor level that the windows rested on. I figured so what if we ducked & covered under our desks, when the bomb hit and the windows exploded inward we were all going to look like shredded cheese.

 

[Signal Geek]

When conditions are right, AM can cover great daytime distances.

In Feb. 2010, I was attending a seminar in a suburb of Sacramento. In the morning, for a few hours after sunrise, I could clearly hear KNX 1070/Los Angeles on my rental car radio. Conversely (is that the right word?) I can sometimes pick up Sacramento's KFBK/1530 here in San Diego in the hours *before* sunset.

 

[joefade-n-go]

I always like driving south over the Grapevine and being able to pick up San Diego stations clearly around Santa Clarita.

 

[Jstnpspck]

I’ve been picking up 91X fairly well in west LA, but I’m assuming the cloudy/foggy weather this week may be having an influence as I’ve been getting something Spanish, possibly religious instead all week. Anybody know what I’m hearing?

 

[yeoldeschool]

I’ve been picking up 91X fairly well in west LA, but I’m assuming the cloudy/foggy weather this week may be having an influence as I’ve been getting something Spanish, possibly religious instead all week. Anybody know what I’m hearing?

91X is XETRA Tijuana, and as a Mexican station, it is required to broadcast certain programming in spanish. Are you listening at the same hour every day of the week this is happening?

 

[Jstnpspck]

91X is XETRA Tijuana, and as a Mexican station, it is required to broadcast certain programming in spanish. Are you listening at the same hour every day of the week this is happening?

I don’t think so? I’ve only popped it on when I’ve been knocking around the kitchen and it’s been en español all week. I know what you’re talking about and I feel like I’ve heard that programming on 91X early in the morning before, but what I’ve heard has been during the day