Hedgecock Op-Ed: The Left Scheming To Shut Down Talk Radio

[DonTheTrucker]

C. As it happens, Bill Press and Ed Schultz were chatting about the 10-to-1 (hours per week) dominance of righty talk this afternoon on Schultz's show. Ed went right for the heart of it, saying "It's an ownership issue."

It's an ownership issue.

Couldn't possibly be a guy who hasn't succeeded as much as his ego tells him he should have expressing sour grapes?

Media companies have one bias. A commercial bias. They run what will make them money, or try to copy what makes other guys money. Liberal talk has never worked, and will never work on AM. As has been pointed out, their audience already listens to NPR (and watches the TV news channels.) You can use the "never had a good signal" excuse all you want, but it's just not the case (KTLK ring a bell?). If there was a market for this type of programming, it would be on the air. Don't pretend like no one has ever considered liberal programming on a big stick AM station. Ironically, KTLK is a Clear Channel station. Part of the evil management cabal to squelch liberal speech.

 

[gr8oldies]

If consolodation had never happened, these same shows would be on the air and the outcry would be that all of these stations are owned by conservative small business owners and its about time some big companies bought these stations so we could get some liberal talk!

 

[gr8oldies]

And by the way, why does Cox, which has very liberal newspapers and employs liberal columnists and editorial boards run conservative talk on WSB, WHIO and others? You'd think the descendants of the late Democratic governor would be spreading the liberal gospel on the radio if the owners only ran talk stations to air the views of management.

 

[DonTheTrucker]

If consolodation had never happened, these same shows would be on the air and the outcry would be that all of these stations are owned by conservative small business owners and its about time some big companies bought these stations so we could get some liberal talk!

It's just excuse making, just like conservatives used to do about TV in the days before Fox News.

 

[listener-in]

I actually think Don C is close to the mark saying: “for some reason stations think they can make it with those guys…... Maybe it's market myopia. You know radio companies are in the copycat business, so they copy what works. It's sure not some evil capitalist conspiracy.”

No matter what the business is, conventional wisdom tends to rule. Auto company A decides that SUVs are the way to go, so B and all the others follow suit, and the predecessor station wagon all but disappears from the market, even though there are plenty of customers who would still prefer them. The auto industry sowed the seeds of its own decline, as all monocultures do.

Ownership IS the issue. One type of owner like Clear Channel is business oriented and apparently defers somewhat to local managements about their schedules; that said, since they are also in the syndication business, they wouldn’t look kindly on a 50kW station dumping their very own Limbaugh in favor of Schultz. And, all other things being equal, it would take gutsy managers to launch liberal talk when conventional wisdom suggests that corporate owners might have reservations – a form of self-censorship; far easier to not to rock the boat. This doesn’t require anyone to believe there’s a conspiracy. However, it’s undeniable that some owners ARE ideologically motivated; for example, it’s unimaginable that a Salem-owned station would ever air liberal talk, no matter what.

Talk radio is not immune from the fate of monocultures and could help itself by providing its listeners with more diverse content.

 

[DonTheTrucker]

Ownership IS the issue.

Ownership being dumb is something I think we can all agree on.

Talk radio is not immune from the fate of monocultures and could help itself by providing its listeners with more diverse content.

More diverse? Yes. But as I've said in other threads, I think the diversity that will work is offering non-political programming. Give the people something a bit different.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

And, all other things being equal, it would take gutsy managers to launch liberal talk when conventional wisdom suggests that corporate owners might have reservations – a form of self-censorship; far easier to not to rock the boat.

Back in Pre-historic Times.... you know, before the mid 1960's, all the telephone equipment on your premises had to be provided by your phone company. Then came the anti-trust issues and the break-up of AT&T, and we entered the era when you could attach equipment from other vendors if you chose to do so. Manufacturers we didn't know about represented by vendors we didn't know about began selling switchboards and full office systems to purchasers who had no experience buying telephone systems. There were some success stories. There were some really ugly failures. A new expression of speech entered the culture of American business. "No one ever got fired for buying AT&T!"

When the switchboard failed and it wasn't AT&T, your boss showed up in your office yelling: "YOUR switchboard failed!"

When the switchboard failed and it was AT&T, your boss showed up in your office and calmly stated: "The phone system is down. Call the phone company."

A few years later when more and more companies had their own on-site main-frame computers, it also became common to our vocabulary: "No one ever got fired for buying IBM."

There are a lot of issues surrounding Talk Radio, what works and does not work, but one factor, big or small, is a little voice that tells owners, managers and programmers: "You never get fired for programming Conservative Talk Radio". Takes awesome cajones to gamble on other versions of talk radio.

Then came the anti-trust issues and the break-up of AT&T, repeal of the Fairness Doctrine and we entered the era when you could attach equipment from other vendors program partisan talk if you chose to do so.

And modern Talk Radio was cultivated by people who were not experienced in such matters and it blossomed quickly. And now we are locked in to what worked first. And timid about considering the alternatives. And nobody ever got fired for scheduling Conservative Talk Radio.

 

[listener-in]

And modern Talk Radio was cultivated by people who were not experienced in such matters and it blossomed quickly. And now we are locked in to what worked first. And timid about considering the alternatives. And nobody ever got fired for scheduling Conservative Talk Radio.

GRC, you nailed it far better than I could have.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

Mike: I have to quarrel with you on this one to some extent. I will grant you that NPR is a comfortable place for a Liberal to listen. A Liberal listening to NPR is not going to be splattered with Conservative points of view the way they will be in they tune in AM talk radio.

I will grant you that some of the NPR people giving voice to their stories show signs of being friendly to Liberal causes.

But they seem to be willing to pretend to be rather centrist in their presentations in spite of what they may support in their personal life.

Do a little test. Spend a couple of hours listening to Rush, Hannity or the host of your choice. Spend a couple of hours listening to NPR. Spend a couple of hours watch MSNBC on cable just after dinner time.

Then come back here and see if you can type with a straight face the following: "Just as head-banging Tea-Party Conservatives get their jollies listening to AM Conservative Talk Radio, head-banging Coffee-Party Liberals get a comparable form of jollies by listening to All Things Considered or Morning Edition."

NPR is not operating in the same league with Hard Ball, Olberman and Maddow. NPR probably has more in common with a Presbyterian, Episcopal or ELCA Lutheran minister reading a Sermon on Sunday morning while wearing a robe: kind of middle of the road with a hint of possible liberalism quietly inserted here and there.

I don't buy the idea that NPR has sucked all the oxygen out of the room, leaving no audience for a more strident Liberal presentation with more in common with Air America and MSNBC cable./color]
Hi Goat Rodeo Cowboy, NPR's style isn't like MSNBC, which is lib talk on TV. In NPR's news reporting, they do make an effort to be balanced ( I've commented on this before). But in talk, even though their very nice about it on NPR vs Rush/Hannity/Beck, etc (hosts who are foaming at the mouths as they rant and rave about whatever has them upset that day) NPR's perspective does lean left. Also, generally speaking, liberals tend to be better educated, better read (they'll read not only books that agrees with their point of view, but will read opposing thoughts, and other topics, etc), so my guess is, that many liberals don't see the value of listening to the Rush/Hannity/Beck style of slash and cut your enemy type talk show and do prefer the more content oriented discussions that NPR is so famous. So if given the choice of listening to Randi Rhodes on Premiere Radio or NPR's Talk of the Nation, my guess is most libs would choose NPR.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

MikeFromDelaware:

Your post reminded me of something I sometimes forget. My Atlanta NPR station does not carry the call-in/discussion programs like Talk of the Nation. We get ME, ATC, Terri Gross and The World. Beyond that our local station really focuses on Classical Music, Fine Music, and some choice Pops Concerts. I can see where people in markets that have an NPR station that focuses on the talk and news offerings on the network while another station in the market focuses on high-brow music would have a different view about what NPR is made of.

 

[DonTheTrucker]

Also, generally speaking, liberals tend to be better educated

Actually liberals tend to draw from the extremes. More high school dropouts and graduate degree holders. Conservatives tend to be 2 and 4 year degree holders.

http://dabacon.org/pontiff/?p=539

So it pretty much evens out in the end. Now you could say that NPR draws the upper end of the left's spread, and would most likely be correct.

, better read (they'll read not only books that agrees with their point of view, but will read opposing thoughts, and other topics,

I think this may be a bit of a stretch, and playing to stereotypes.

So if given the choice of listening to Randi Rhodes on Premiere Radio or NPR's Talk of the Nation, my guess is most libs would choose NPR.

Could also be that NPR produces a vastly superior product. On the whole, their shows are VERY well produced.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Actually liberals tend to draw from the extremes. More high school dropouts and graduate degree holders. Conservatives tend to be 2 and 4 year degree holders.

http://dabacon.org/pontiff/?p=539

You have just demonstrated one of the significant problems of having rational and intelligent discussion. We ALL cherry pick our facts and our evidence of proof. (Me included!)

Nowhere does the chart refer to Conservatives and Liberals. It refers to Republicans and Democrats. Since there are states that do not require (or even have a mechanism) for people to register by party, how do researchers know who is Republican, who is Democrat, who is Liberal, who is Conservative.

I am amazed how many people will tell me they are Conservative and then as the conversation proceeds you realize they are quite liberal and don't even know it. And I am amazed how many people will tell me they are Liberal and via conversation reveal they are conservative and don't know it. In their little world and community it is simply popular to claim one ideology or the other.

So bringing this conversation back to RADIO... (remember radio? It's what this forum is all about. ;D ) if some fool called me up this afternoon and said: "I'm going to take a chance. After reading some of your posts, I want you to go to <name your market here> where I have this extra radio station in my group that has been floundering around, and I want you to size up the market and design a new, customized Talk Radio format that fits THAT MARKET and then make it work."

And the caller goes on to explain that I am being given a blank sheet of paper. It does not have to be all Conservative or all Liberal. It the market calls for it, make it a potpourri all alloyed together if need be. Just make it work!

With integrity and intelligence, how would a programmer go about sizing up the market and converting the "sized up facts" into a Talk Radio format?

 

[DonTheTrucker]

Nowhere does the chart refer to Conservatives and Liberals. It refers to Republicans and Democrats. Since there are states that do not require (or even have a mechanism) for people to register by party, how do researchers know who is Republican, who is Democrat, who is Liberal, who is Conservative.

I am amazed how many people will tell me they are Conservative and then as the conversation proceeds you realize they are quite liberal and don't even know it. And I am amazed how many people will tell me they are Liberal and via conversation reveal they are conservative and don't know it. In their little world and community it is simply popular to claim one ideology or the other.

You make a very good point there. I tried to find something more ideology based, but all I could find was political party affiliation in my quick search. I do realize there's a big difference.

So bringing this conversation back to RADIO... (remember radio? It's what this forum is all about. ;D ) if some fool called me up this afternoon and said: "I'm going to take a chance. After reading some of your posts, I want you to go to <name your market here> where I have this extra radio station in my group that has been floundering around, and I want you to size up the market and design a new, customized Talk Radio format that fits THAT MARKET and then make it work."

And the caller goes on to explain that I am being given a blank sheet of paper. It does not have to be all Conservative or all Liberal. It the market calls for it, make it a potpourri all alloyed together if need be. Just make it work!

With integrity and intelligence, how would a programmer go about sizing up the market and converting the "sized up facts" into a Talk Radio format?

That's the big question that no one is willing to take a chance on answering, it seems. There is a huge unserved audience out there, since even the best rated shows are pulling 5 shares. The radio market seems to have segmented into such small niches that an old time station that offers a variety of programming of all types and political bents should work. At least in theory. The problem is getting someone to take that chance, and finding well made programming that would fit.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

Goat Rodeo Cowboy: Philly (and Wilmington DE, because we're close enough to Philly to get them) fortunately does have two NPR stations, WHYY-FM that airs the NPR News/Informational/Talk format, and WRTI that offers Classical Music from 6am to 6pm, and Jazz from 6pm to 6am. It's nice to have both. When I want Classical or Jazz I go to WRTI and when I want to hear talk/ national-international news, interviews, etc, I go to WHYY.

Washington DC has, 2 NPR along with one from Baltimore, so the Baltimore/Washington metro area has even more choices for NPR type programming than the Philly/Wilmington metro area. Frankly I listen to commercial AM or FM radio less and less as the two NPR stations offer far more interesting programming. I guess that's one advantage of living in a large metro area, more NPR stations to choose from.

The other thing I've started doing is going to NPR's website, where you can listen to their programs there any time you want (once it's aired on the radio), so you might be able to find more NPR programming there that isn't available in your town.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

The other thing I've started doing is going to NPR's website, where you can listen to their programs there any time you want (once it's aired on the radio), so you might be able to find more NPR programming there that isn't available in your town.

Yes, I have i-Tunes set up on my computer to "harvest" recordings from NPR and other sites. Now, I am going to display my antiquity right here in public: If downloading podcast material from the Internet is going to be the death of traditional radio.... it will be a sign that radio had really become pitiful. I find that selecting some recordings I want to hear, stuffing them into my mp3-player and finding a player that will let me manage the playback in such a way as to fit my available discretionary time is hardly worth the hassle!

If I could figure out which mp3-player to acquire and then lay out more dollars than I have been willing to spend so far, I could probably make that process more practical, more enjoyable.

I am the first to concede that my listening style and habits do not represent the typical target that broadcasters or podcasters aim for, or the typical target that manufacturers of mp3 devices aim for.

The i-Pod by Apple apparently is a stroke of genius in its match-up with the music-centric audience.

There may be room in the market place for considerably different device to meet the needs of people like me with wacko listening habits.

Thanks for the tip, Mike.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

I have an MP3 player, that my wife gave me for Christmas. I've down loaded some Lutheran Hour and Assembly of God MP3 programs from their respective web sites. I've not tried music. I agree down loading on an MP3 isn't real easy to do. Of course in both our cases, it may be a generational thing where we just don't quite get it, but hey we're both trying and willing to learn.

The NPR stuff I listen to, I listen to on my computer both at home and at work (odd I can down load MP3 files to play on my work computer, but it's been filtered to keep you from listening live on line to the radio). I'll probably also try to down load NPR stuff on my MP3, if I can figure it out.

 

[livingfruitvirus]

Radio talk show host Roger Hedgecock (you may have seen his banner ads here on R-I) has written a commentary about how the left is making an effort to silence conservative talk radio - this, in the wake of the failure of the liberal-leaning Air America radio network.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=157565

Looks like another case of a talk show personality enjoying being victimized and keeping the audience afraid so they'll tune in. What the hell, Roger? You're better than most right wing talkers.

It's not because of some grand conspiracy. Liberal talk has been tried dozens of times, and it has never worked on a large scale.

It's hard for anything to work when you don't have an adequate signal. Try sticking Rush or Beck on a 1000 watt graveyard channel in a major market, up against the 50,000 watt competition, and see how they do in the ratings.

That's the situation in Atlanta, Georgia. Rush and Beck on the limping AM with Boortz and Howard on the blowtorch.

Also, generally speaking, liberals tend to be better educated

Actually liberals tend to draw from the extremes. More high school dropouts and graduate degree holders. Conservatives tend to be 2 and 4 year degree holders.

That kind of wrecks this idea being pumped out by right wing personalities that colleges are these liberalism/socialism factories doesn't it?

Liberal talk/ commentary/ discussions shows, etc, is alive and well every day, here in America, on the radio, via NPR. That may be why commercial liberal talk does not do as well. The libs have a solid seemless network of mostly FM radio stations coast to coast, NPR. They are the top tier lib radio network. Air America was minor league when compared to NPR. Why would a lib listener switch to a commerical lib talker, on AM, when they have NPR mostly on FM and commercial free to boot? NPR fills an important niche in American radio. Even many conservatives will listen, at least once a week to NPR's "Car Talk". Granted, that's not a political show, but even liberal leaning NPR airs a show that conservatives too can enjoy.

But my point is, for liberal talk, tune in to NPR, mostly on FM radio and online. For conservative talk, tune in to AM radio and online.

How much actual "liberal talk" is actually on public radio? I've heard mostly specialty shows on public radio, but does it have any shows that one would identify with a blatant anti-conservative lean? I haven't heard all public radio shows, hence why I'm posing the question. Right now, public radio to me doesn't feel like liberal talk radio, but talk radio that just happens to appeal to liberals.

Yes, I have i-Tunes set up on my computer to "harvest" recordings from NPR and other sites. Now, I am going to display my antiquity right here in public: If downloading podcast material from the Internet is going to be the death of traditional radio.... it will be a sign that radio had really become pitiful. I find that selecting some recordings I want to hear, stuffing them into my mp3-player and finding a player that will let me manage the playback in such a way as to fit my available discretionary time is hardly worth the hassle!

If I could figure out which mp3-player to acquire and then lay out more dollars than I have been willing to spend so far, I could probably make that process more practical, more enjoyable.

That's a feature of the XM Radio portables that they don't tout enough, but really should. The ability to record and organize talk radio programs, as the live feeds are separated from the commercials with track names. Of course it has to come down from the XM birds.

 

[listener-in]

How much actual "liberal talk" is actually on public radio? I've heard mostly specialty shows on public radio, but does it have any shows that one would identify with a blatant anti-conservative lean? I haven't heard all public radio shows, hence why I'm posing the question. Right now, public radio to me doesn't feel like liberal talk radio, but talk radio that just happens to appeal to liberals.

Exactly.

As far as controversial matters are concerned, public radio leans over backwards not to show liberal bias. It largely covers the same material as the broadcast and cable news networks, but at greater length, and it follows exactly the same conventional wisdom about what’s newsworthy, right down to the commentaries given by Cokie Roberts and Juan Williams.

The main distinguishing feature of public radio is its coverage of foreign stories, sometimes obscure ones, which could be of great consequence to the United States but which never see the light of day on other networks; if the public radio audience is liberal, it will be because liberals tend to be less insular than conservatives. One of the last vestiges of liberal opinion in public broadcasting disappeared with the retirement of Bill Moyers from PBS and the simultaneous canning by PBS of NOW with David Brancaccio.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

Listener In is expressing, what I was trying to say (possibly not as clearly as he/she did) that NPR does appeal to liberal audiences. The libs who listen to NPR are better educated generally. The uneducated libs generally don't listen to NPR, because they think the programming is boring (they also don't watch PBS generally for the same reason), just as uneducated conservatives would generally find NPR /PBS boring.

NPR is, for lib talk/thought radio much as William F. Buckley was, for conservative talk/thought TV when he was on PBS. NPR doesn't want to be the lib version of Rush/Beck/Hannity. Their audience expects better of them.

One form of talk/informational programming (NPR) inspires a thoughtful quality forum for discussion, where people of opposing views can actually dialog together and hear thoughts and ideas they may not have previously considered. Where the other (Beck/Rush/Hannity and their wannabe talk shows) generally inspire anger, rage, and hatred towards the other side. NPR, in my opinion, is productive, and the "The Big 3" and their cohorts in AM talk generally appeals to the lowest common denominator (the masses give them their "circuses" to keep them entertained and amused, etc, (very similar to much of the sitcoms/"reality" shows that are the driving force of today's Network TV schedule).

Two different types of listeners/viewers, two different approaches. Both draw their audience to them. Both are successful. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[LibertyNT]

It's not a hidden fact Libby's don't like Conservative radio.
They would be THRILLED to have it silenced.
And thats the difference between conservatives and Liberals.
If a Conservative group doesn't like a show or program they simply won't listen to it.
If a Liberal group doesn't like a show they will try hard to get it thrown off the air.
plain and simple.