A new station in San Diego on 91.1? With XETRA 91.1 right across the border in Tijuana, BC? Why is XETRA-FM missing from their study? Is there any advantage for the applicant to have this thrown out? Why is it Pending and not thrown out? FCC Database Problem with new system leaving out border stations? Maybe David knows.
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HOW CAN THIS BE? NEW Station in San Diego On 91.1???
- Thread starter Schroedingers Cat
- Start date
Is it possible that there's a deal in place for a station to replace XETRA in the San Diego area? I don't know, just a thought.
Most border or close to the border stations, or more specifically frequencies are protected and dealt with by international agreements.
The FCC is not going to entertain a license application if that allocation is, by treaty ceded to Mexico.
Cripes even long unused Canadian AM frequencies are still protected while I'm sure some US AM Daytimers or flea powered night power stations would love the chance to add a couple of extra hamsters to the night power generators
The FCC is not going to entertain a license application if that allocation is, by treaty ceded to Mexico.
Cripes even long unused Canadian AM frequencies are still protected while I'm sure some US AM Daytimers or flea powered night power stations would love the chance to add a couple of extra hamsters to the night power generators
This was a bad app. Not every consultant knows the actual dial where they're applying, and if they get an incomplete database to work from, you get something like this.
Michi immediately sorted it into her "junk" application category, which is where it and the 90.3 app (also for SD) belonged.
Michi immediately sorted it into her "junk" application category, which is where it and the 90.3 app (also for SD) belonged.
I could never forget XETRA-FM 91.1. My Wife and I went to California, and one of our stops was at her Aunt and Uncle's house in Carlsbad. We were able to find it with some good maps we bought before leaving Michigan, and there were no cell phones then. When we got to their house, my Wife's 14 year old Cousin had 91X BLASTING from his second floor bedroom window. We pounded on the door and rang the doorbell for 20 minutes before my Wife's Aunt finally heard and answered the door. I would have known if it was missing from an APP. Not every station, but that one for sure.
I seem to remember at least with Canada, it has become perfectly fine for a U.S. station to interfere with a Canadian station ON U.S. soil as long as it didn't interfere on Canadian soil, and vice versa. I seem to remember someone applying for a translator on 93.9 in Detroit. Incredibly stupid move, but as long as it didn't reach Canada, apparently could have been approved.
As Scott pointed out, this was a "garbage" application that I immediately identified when the applications were first released. Fortunately, I lived for decades in SoCal so I was very familiar with this one. There were several border area applications that were filed like this. All of them had one thing in common, they all used the same engineering software. I use the same software for my work, but I do not use the database that is provided from them (why should I? I maintain a much more comprehensive database here..). After these came out, I did reach out to the company (who will remain nameless) to advise them that they were not including the Mexican facilities in their database. The root cause of the issue was how the FCC's LMS database lists foreign facilities was very different than how they listed domestic facilities. The FCC changed FM from CDBS to LMS in September, 2019. I noticed the issues early on and was able to compensate, but I was also incorporating CDBS data in our systems where necessary. But all of the applications I filed along the border were correct. The FCC did dismiss one of the 90.3 applications and the other was able to move to Borrego Springs on a 90.5 and was accepted for filing.
Every time there's a filing window where there are no filing fees, you will see garbage applications. The 2013 LPFM window had its share of it. For this window, people actually tried to apply for 90.3 in Los Angeles, 89.1 in Austin, 91.3 in St. Louis and 89.5 in Memphis. I am not surprised. We'll see what cringe-worthy garbage applications will be filed when the next LPFM window comes around.. whenever that will be.
Every time there's a filing window where there are no filing fees, you will see garbage applications. The 2013 LPFM window had its share of it. For this window, people actually tried to apply for 90.3 in Los Angeles, 89.1 in Austin, 91.3 in St. Louis and 89.5 in Memphis. I am not surprised. We'll see what cringe-worthy garbage applications will be filed when the next LPFM window comes around.. whenever that will be.
While that is true, this is just several miles from the border, and has no contour protection exhibit or even acknowledgment that XETRA is even there. XETRA-FM 91.1 is a couple miles from the border.
Filing fees and/or a limit on number of filings by an attributable entity are ways to minimize a flood of applications. Spectrum is frozen while a backlog is resolved, and with MX apps and legal process this can take a while. A regulator looks for a balance between enabling access to licenses and minimizing gaming of the system.
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Even if this were a translator, where it could RECEIVE interference, it still has to protect the border to 34 dBu F(50,10) or below on Mexican soil. Theoretically, you could overlap over water. But with all the interference from XETRA-FM, it wouldn't be much of a translator even. Like you say, gr8oldies, there were some such applications near the Canadian Border near Detroit. If you look in the International Agreements, you can use concentric U/D interference ratio "circles" to determine actual areas where there is actual U/D interference, but those have only become "popular" recently for FIRST ADJACENT applications near the Canadian Border, don't know about Mexico. There are so many vacant, even some Class C, allotments in SSM, ON that this is being used quite a bit lately. Most of the Windsor and Sarnia Vacant Channels have been used, but many new stations in Canada are on SECOND ADJACENTS, and it is possible to keep the 34 dBu F(50,10) contour within the borders with Directional Antennas, and they RECEIVE and ACCEPT some 94 dBu F(50,10) interference from US Stations. But you have to have that interference situation addressed in the APP.
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Here's the FM Agreement Between Mexico and the United States.
XETRA-FM is a Class C, but apparently, Class Cs in Mexico in the agreement are protected to the 60 dBu F(50,50) contour, not 58 dBu F(50,50) for Class C, 54 dBu F(50,50) for other classes, as with the US Canada Agreement. Only Class Bs and B1 are protected to the 54 dBu and 57 dBu, respectively. Scanning though the document, the concentric "circle" U/D ratios are also allowed in this agreement. So the 40 dBu F(50,50) of the NEW SD, CA station could not go into Mexico. But it still doesn't work in any way for a protected station, and would be a bad translator frequency also.
XETRA-FM is a Class C, but apparently, Class Cs in Mexico in the agreement are protected to the 60 dBu F(50,50) contour, not 58 dBu F(50,50) for Class C, 54 dBu F(50,50) for other classes, as with the US Canada Agreement. Only Class Bs and B1 are protected to the 54 dBu and 57 dBu, respectively. Scanning though the document, the concentric "circle" U/D ratios are also allowed in this agreement. So the 40 dBu F(50,50) of the NEW SD, CA station could not go into Mexico. But it still doesn't work in any way for a protected station, and would be a bad translator frequency also.
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This window had a cap of ten applications per organization.
Filing fees for noncommercial educational stations is prohibited pursuant to the Communications Act 47 USC §158(d)(1)C). The FCC can't impose them without an act of Congress.
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