How HD radio can end up in the hands of 10 million more Americans quickly.

[vsa]

Once again, I ask you to list any Internet radio stations/streams that have shut down in recent months. I'm still waiting for your list.

You'll be waiting a while! Like I said, I don't care, and I have no intention of wasting any time finding out.

Reading radio trade publication headlines is not a substitute for direct knowledge of the situation. Internet radio is not going away. Time will prove you to be wrong.

If you say so. The quotes I offered earlier were directly from Pandora. I've also read direct quotes from the people behind AOL and Yahoo's streaming efforts. They are all saying basically the same thing Pandora is.

I'll take the words of the people behind those major web radio operations over an anonymous chat board user that can't even find the right forum for his posts any day.

Like I've said. You merely read industry trade headlines. I've talked in person to negotiators and Congressmen on both sides of the issue.

 

[Radioman100]

Like I've said. You merely read industry trade headlines. I've talked in person to negotiators and Congressmen on both sides of the issue.

So the people I quoted from Pandora are lying? Web radio is just fine? Then why are AOL and Yahoo hiding it?

 

[Radioman100]

Chuck, you are so right. I'm getting bored with explaining the all-too-obvious to certain people here. They just don't want to hear it.

There might be some people over on the web radio board that would like to hear this off-topic nonsense. Oh yeah, that's right - nobody reads the web radio board!

 

[Chuck]

Chuck, you are so right. I'm getting bored with explaining the all-too-obvious to certain people here. They just don't want to hear it.

There might be some people over on the web radio board that would like to hear this off-topic nonsense. Oh yeah, that's right - nobody reads the web radio board!

I don't think it is off topic to discuss your competition.

 

[oldjohnny]

Chuck, you are so right. I'm getting bored with explaining the all-too-obvious to certain people here. They just don't want to hear it.

The "all too abvious" is that you keep claiming that you have to buy additional equipment for HD radio. Same thing with Wi-Fi Radio.

OK, you tell me,
How much will it cost for me to listen to Wi-Fi radio on the road. How much will the equipment cost for me to listen to it at work (and at home). How much do one of these smart phones cost so I can listen to it while I jog (And hopefully it is smaller than an iPod). What Radio will I have to buy (If it doesn't have an AUX jack). How much will my cellphone company charge me for accessing the internet.

If the people who are still listening to radio right now didn't go to XM or Sirius, what makes you think they'll want to pay for all this additional equipment and internet access? If Radio right now is free, why would they pay for it.

Sooner or later HD Radio (that is if they get rolling and do what they have to do) will start to grow into more products, and when this starts to happen more people will have access to it. And like you said, in reality, it won't come at an extra cost since it will sooner or later become standard on most Radios.

The same reason you say HD radio

 

[vsa]

Chuck, you are so right. I'm getting bored with explaining the all-too-obvious to certain people here. They just don't want to hear it.

There might be some people over on the web radio board that would like to hear this off-topic nonsense. Oh yeah, that's right - nobody reads the web radio board!

You are assuming the rates will stand permanently. They will not. Negotiations have gone on since last summer. They will probabaly continue for quite awhile yet. It is and will continue to be messy. Some webcasters already have quietly reached direct deals. Others are working on it. Copyright law will get a re-write before the end of 2010. People like you will be scared out of adding to the competition online. That will be fine for incumbents. You will lose. Those with some insight and fortitude will be the winners.

Don't believe me. Try to find a webcaster of any substance who has actually shut down. There anen't any.

 

[vsa]

Chuck, you are so right. I'm getting bored with explaining the all-too-obvious to certain people here. They just don't want to hear it.

The "all too abvious" is that you keep claiming that you have to buy additional equipment for HD radio. Same thing with Wi-Fi Radio.

OK, you tell me,
How much will it cost for me to listen to Wi-Fi radio on the road. How much will the equipment cost for me to listen to it at work (and at home). How much do one of these smart phones cost so I can listen to it while I jog (And hopefully it is smaller than an iPod). What Radio will I have to buy (If it doesn't have an AUX jack). How much will my cellphone company charge me for accessing the internet.

If the people who are still listening to radio right now didn't go to XM or Sirius, what makes you think they'll want to pay for all this additional equipment and internet access? If Radio right now is free, why would they pay for it.

Sooner or later HD Radio (that is if they get rolling and do what they have to do) will start to grow into more products, and when this starts to happen more people will have access to it. And like you said, in reality, it won't come at an extra cost since it will sooner or later become standard on most Radios.

The same reason you say HD radio

You have a computer at home or at work with an Internet connection. You can therefore listen to Internet radio for free at home or at work. If you have wi-fi at either location, you can do it wirelessly for free. If you use an Internet-connected cell phone for work or personal reasons, the ability to hear Internet radio for free is a free added bonus. If your car comes equipped with a Wimax-connected computer/router/Internet/entertainment system, Internet radio comes along for the ride free as an extra. People already do or will be doing this. Adding Internet radio capability usually only requires SOFTWARE, not dedicated hardware. Get it? This is Internet radio's biggest advantage over HD radio. Unless HD radios come along for the ride, being contained inside devices people will gladly buy anyway, HD radio will remain dead. Since it requires dedicated hardware that is proprietary to iBiquity, it will always be an added cost to the manufacturer and will raise the total cost of any product that includes it.

Internet radio's second advantage is that it is two-way. A third advantage is that you can deliver unique programming and spots and do it on-demand if you'd like. A fourth advantage is that there are no geographic signal limitations. Every station can fully reach its chosen market with an interference-free and robust digital signal. Internet radio will grow as surely as the Internet itself will continue to grow.

 

[Radioman100]

You are assuming the rates will stand permanently. They will not. Negotiations have gone on since last summer. They will probabaly continue for quite awhile yet. It is and will continue to be messy. Some webcasters already have quietly reached direct deals. Others are working on it. Copyright law will get a re-write before the end of 2010. People like you will be scared out of adding to the competition online. That will be fine for incumbents. You will lose. Those with some insight and fortitude will be the winners.

Don't believe me. Try to find a webcaster of any substance who has actually shut down. There anen't any.

Tell ya what. When that happens, let me know. Until then, web radio is a money losing proposition. A big, scary one because the RIAA always goes after their ridiculously high fees retroactively.

You can keep hoping for the best and spouting off about how there will be change, but every time, every single time webcasters have gone toe to toe with the RIAA they have lost, and usually they lose big.

There is absolutely no reason to believe there will be a reprieve for webcasters. Americans pay ridiculously high prices for prescription drugs. Many people literally have to decide between medicine and food. The really sad part is this could all be fixed if we were allowed to order our prescriptions internationally, because the pharmaceutical industry soaks the American public for all development costs. If nothing else, the costs could be equalized among all nations.

We're talking life and death here, not something as trivial as entertainment, and Congress has done nothing to fix it. What makes you think they're going to rewrite copyright law in favor of webcasters? Web radio seems rather unimportant to me given all the important issues Congress fails to act on.

 

[Radioman100]

I don't think it is off topic to discuss your competition.

Discussing it is one thing. Starting threads like this one, which is about a web radio appliance, on the HD board is off topic.

 

[KB1OKL]

There is absolutely no reason to believe there will be a reprieve for webcasters. Americans pay ridiculously high prices for prescription drugs. Many people literally have to decide between medicine and food. The really sad part is this could all be fixed if we were allowed to order our prescriptions internationally, because the pharmaceutical industry soaks the American public for all development costs. If nothing else, the costs could be equalized among all nations.

Hey radioman100, me and you finally agree on something even though this is WAY off topic. I'm in the medical field incidentally and agree with you 100%

 

[oldjohnny]

You have a computer at home or at work with an Internet connection. You can therefore listen to Internet radio for free at home or at work. If you have wi-fi at either location, you can do it wirelessly for free. If you use an Internet-connected cell phone for work or personal reasons, the ability to hear Internet radio for free is a free added bonus. If your car comes equipped with a Wimax-connected computer/router/Internet/entertainment system, Internet radio comes along for the ride free as an extra. People already do or will be doing this. Adding Internet radio capability usually only requires SOFTWARE, not dedicated hardware. Get it? This is Internet radio's biggest advantage over HD radio. Unless HD radios come along for the ride, being contained inside devices people will gladly buy anyway, HD radio will remain dead. Since it requires dedicated hardware that is proprietary to iBiquity, it will always be an added cost to the manufacturer and will raise the total cost of any product that includes it.

Well then, if you look at it in those terms, when HD radio comes as a standard in every radio, then it'll be free as well. You seem to forget, the only way Wi-Fi radio will completely work is by making it portable. And by protable, I mean buying extra equipment. (and don't bring up the whole PSP thing up because clearly, you haven't used one) Wimax will likely be at an extra cost, and don't forget the Bill you will receive in your mailbox after every month. Clearly, the only people that will move to Wi-Fi are Satellite radio users since they are clearly the only ones willing to pay a bill. Then you still have to consider if they want variety over commercials since some of these stations do carry like one commercial an hour or so.

Then we also have to consider how much companies and advertisers are willing to push this idea. Wi-Fi radio isn't a stable place for advertisers and you know that many of them will push against it since Wi-Fi Radio is to spread out and has too many stations. This is not something companies want and if it hurts their ability to sell their products, then they will clearly see this as their enemy. Putting advertisements on Internet radio isn't good since the audience is spread out all over the place. Advertising agencies will fight against it.

Internet radio's second advantage is that it is two-way. A third advantage is that you can deliver unique programming and spots and do it on-demand if you'd like. A fourth advantage is that there are no geographic signal limitations. Every station can fully reach its chosen market with an interference-free and robust digital signal. Internet radio will grow as surely as the Internet itself will continue to grow.

Your fourth advantage is very wrong. Try crossing the border Ami or Amigo, then what will you do? Pay the exaggerated international fees?Satellite radio is satellite radio, and standard radio and HD radio are already on the other side of the border. Mexico already has HD stations in central Mexico and last I checked, many of it's Northern stations are allowed to run HD. Even here in Texas there are roads that T-Mobile does not cover and guess what, I can listen to HD radio on the same road. There are geographic limitations to Wi-Fi radio.

 

[vsa]

You have a computer at home or at work with an Internet connection. You can therefore listen to Internet radio for free at home or at work. If you have wi-fi at either location, you can do it wirelessly for free. If you use an Internet-connected cell phone for work or personal reasons, the ability to hear Internet radio for free is a free added bonus. If your car comes equipped with a Wimax-connected computer/router/Internet/entertainment system, Internet radio comes along for the ride free as an extra. People already do or will be doing this. Adding Internet radio capability usually only requires SOFTWARE, not dedicated hardware. Get it? This is Internet radio's biggest advantage over HD radio. Unless HD radios come along for the ride, being contained inside devices people will gladly buy anyway, HD radio will remain dead. Since it requires dedicated hardware that is proprietary to iBiquity, it will always be an added cost to the manufacturer and will raise the total cost of any product that includes it.

Well then, if you look at it in those terms, when HD radio comes as a standard in every radio, then it'll be free as well. You seem to forget, the only way Wi-Fi radio will completely work is by making it portable. And by protable, I mean buying extra equipment. (and don't bring up the whole PSP thing up because clearly, you haven't used one) Wimax will likely be at an extra cost, and don't forget the Bill you will receive in your mailbox after every month. Clearly, the only people that will move to Wi-Fi are Satellite radio users since they are clearly the only ones willing to pay a bill. Then you still have to consider if they want variety over commercials since some of these stations do carry like one commercial an hour or so.

Then we also have to consider how much companies and advertisers are willing to push this idea. Wi-Fi radio isn't a stable place for advertisers and you know that many of them will push against it since Wi-Fi Radio is to spread out and has too many stations. This is not something companies want and if it hurts their ability to sell their products, then they will clearly see this as their enemy. Putting advertisements on Internet radio isn't good since the audience is spread out all over the place. Advertising agencies will fight against it.

Internet radio's second advantage is that it is two-way. A third advantage is that you can deliver unique programming and spots and do it on-demand if you'd like. A fourth advantage is that there are no geographic signal limitations. Every station can fully reach its chosen market with an interference-free and robust digital signal. Internet radio will grow as surely as the Internet itself will continue to grow.

Your fourth advantage is very wrong. Try crossing the border Ami or Amigo, then what will you do? Pay the exaggerated international fees?Satellite radio is satellite radio, and standard radio and HD radio are already on the other side of the border. Mexico already has HD stations in central Mexico and last I checked, many of it's Northern stations are allowed to run HD. Even here in Texas there are roads that T-Mobile does not cover and guess what, I can listen to HD radio on the same road. There are geographic limitations to Wi-Fi radio.

[Side Note:] When someone believes that radio listening is done primarily in the car, it tells me that the person saying it only listens to radio in the car. He may listen elsewhere, but only as part of his job.

You just can't help but look at everything through your traditional "radio colored" glasses, can't you? If your way of looking at this is representative of radio as a whole, ota radio is indeed a living dinosaur. I thought figuring out the advantages of Internet radio was not rocket science, but you're getting me to think it may actually be rocket science.

Have a nice day.

 

[Radioman100]

You just can't help but look at everything through your traditional "radio colored" glasses, can't you? If your way of looking at this is representative of radio as a whole, ota radio is indeed a living dinosaur. I thought figuring out the advantages of Internet radio was not rocket science, but you're getting me to think it may actually be rocket science.

Have a nice day.

Which advantages? Would that be sky high CRB royalty rates or providing a stream that cannibalizes your Arbitron ratings in the PPM universe?

 

[oldjohnny]

You have a computer at home or at work with an Internet connection. You can therefore listen to Internet radio for free at home or at work. If you have wi-fi at either location, you can do it wirelessly for free. If you use an Internet-connected cell phone for work or personal reasons, the ability to hear Internet radio for free is a free added bonus. If your car comes equipped with a Wimax-connected computer/router/Internet/entertainment system, Internet radio comes along for the ride free as an extra. People already do or will be doing this. Adding Internet radio capability usually only requires SOFTWARE, not dedicated hardware. Get it? This is Internet radio's biggest advantage over HD radio. Unless HD radios come along for the ride, being contained inside devices people will gladly buy anyway, HD radio will remain dead. Since it requires dedicated hardware that is proprietary to iBiquity, it will always be an added cost to the manufacturer and will raise the total cost of any product that includes it.

Well then, if you look at it in those terms, when HD radio comes as a standard in every radio, then it'll be free as well. You seem to forget, the only way Wi-Fi radio will completely work is by making it portable. And by protable, I mean buying extra equipment. (and don't bring up the whole PSP thing up because clearly, you haven't used one) Wimax will likely be at an extra cost, and don't forget the Bill you will receive in your mailbox after every month. Clearly, the only people that will move to Wi-Fi are Satellite radio users since they are clearly the only ones willing to pay a bill. Then you still have to consider if they want variety over commercials since some of these stations do carry like one commercial an hour or so.

Then we also have to consider how much companies and advertisers are willing to push this idea. Wi-Fi radio isn't a stable place for advertisers and you know that many of them will push against it since Wi-Fi Radio is to spread out and has too many stations. This is not something companies want and if it hurts their ability to sell their products, then they will clearly see this as their enemy. Putting advertisements on Internet radio isn't good since the audience is spread out all over the place. Advertising agencies will fight against it.

Internet radio's second advantage is that it is two-way. A third advantage is that you can deliver unique programming and spots and do it on-demand if you'd like. A fourth advantage is that there are no geographic signal limitations. Every station can fully reach its chosen market with an interference-free and robust digital signal. Internet radio will grow as surely as the Internet itself will continue to grow.

Your fourth advantage is very wrong. Try crossing the border Ami or Amigo, then what will you do? Pay the exaggerated international fees?Satellite radio is satellite radio, and standard radio and HD radio are already on the other side of the border. Mexico already has HD stations in central Mexico and last I checked, many of it's Northern stations are allowed to run HD. Even here in Texas there are roads that T-Mobile does not cover and guess what, I can listen to HD radio on the same road. There are geographic limitations to Wi-Fi radio.

[Side Note:] When someone believes that radio listening is done primarily in the car, it tells me that the person saying it only listens to radio in the car. He may listen elsewhere, but only as part of his job.Have a nice day.

I said portable, I never said Radio was mostly heard in a car. True, you do need to also be successful in the automotive part, but you also need these devices portable. You are assuming that every american works behind a computer. Also, not every job has Wi-Fi.
Not many construction workers have access to computers and Wi-Fi, so when I say portability, I meant something like this. Yeah Yeah, I heard your whole preach about using it in with your cellphone, but are americans really willing to pay an additional bill. I mean, if Americans didn't go for satellite radio, they won't go for this. Shure you also get to use the internet if you have a laptop or PDA, but with today's rates, I don't think people will be thrilled.

You have a computer at home or at work with an Internet connection. You can therefore listen to Internet radio for free at home or at work. If you have wi-fi at either location, you can do it wirelessly for free. If you use an Internet-connected cell phone for work or personal reasons, the ability to hear Internet radio for free is a free added bonus. If your car comes equipped with a Wimax-connected computer/router/Internet/entertainment system, Internet radio comes along for the ride free as an extra. People already do or will be doing this. Adding Internet radio capability usually only requires SOFTWARE, not dedicated hardware. Get it? This is Internet radio's biggest advantage over HD radio. Unless HD radios come along for the ride, being contained inside devices people will gladly buy anyway, HD radio will remain dead. Since it requires dedicated hardware that is proprietary to iBiquity, it will always be an added cost to the manufacturer and will raise the total cost of any product that includes it.

Well then, if you look at it in those terms, when HD radio comes as a standard in every radio, then it'll be free as well. You seem to forget, the only way Wi-Fi radio will completely work is by making it portable. And by protable, I mean buying extra equipment. (and don't bring up the whole PSP thing up because clearly, you haven't used one) Wimax will likely be at an extra cost, and don't forget the Bill you will receive in your mailbox after every month. Clearly, the only people that will move to Wi-Fi are Satellite radio users since they are clearly the only ones willing to pay a bill. Then you still have to consider if they want variety over commercials since some of these stations do carry like one commercial an hour or so.

Then we also have to consider how much companies and advertisers are willing to push this idea. Wi-Fi radio isn't a stable place for advertisers and you know that many of them will push against it since Wi-Fi Radio is to spread out and has too many stations. This is not something companies want and if it hurts their ability to sell their products, then they will clearly see this as their enemy. Putting advertisements on Internet radio isn't good since the audience is spread out all over the place. Advertising agencies will fight against it.

Internet radio's second advantage is that it is two-way. A third advantage is that you can deliver unique programming and spots and do it on-demand if you'd like. A fourth advantage is that there are no geographic signal limitations. Every station can fully reach its chosen market with an interference-free and robust digital signal. Internet radio will grow as surely as the Internet itself will continue to grow.

Your fourth advantage is very wrong. Try crossing the border Ami or Amigo, then what will you do? Pay the exaggerated international fees?Satellite radio is satellite radio, and standard radio and HD radio are already on the other side of the border. Mexico already has HD stations in central Mexico and last I checked, many of it's Northern stations are allowed to run HD. Even here in Texas there are roads that T-Mobile does not cover and guess what, I can listen to HD radio on the same road. There are geographic limitations to Wi-Fi radio.

You just can't help but look at everything through your traditional "radio colored" glasses, can't you? If your way of looking at this is representative of radio as a whole, ota radio is indeed a living dinosaur. I thought figuring out the advantages of Internet radio was not rocket science, but you're getting me to think it may actually be rocket science.

Have a nice day.

Actually, Internet Radio would be Rocket science when you think about all the extra equipment you have to buy and the additional payments you need to pay for, just to enjoy radio. We have to remeber that yes, a lot of americans do have internet access, but how many of them are willing to pay for an even more expensive internet access. Then you have to think how many of them will buy the extra equipment.

Call me what you want, but I still see it very hard for Wi-Fi Radio to take over as a standard for Radio.

P.S. Have you tried the PSP that you praise a lot?

 

[vsa]

P.S. Have you tried the PSP that you praise a lot?

It's been impossible. Every store I've checked is sold out.

How are HD radios selling? Or are they?

 

[Radioman100]

It's been impossible. Every store I've checked is sold out.

I'm pretty sure that has nothing to do with the web radio feature.

 

[radiopilot]

It's been impossible. Every store I've checked is sold out.

I'm pretty sure that has nothing to do with the web radio feature.

Maybe this will help, maybe not since it seems you have taken over the spot of being the 'HD guru' around here these days... but I'd rather read the experts than some no name posting here!

http://www.bridgeratings.com/press_08.08.07.HDvsInternet.htm

Radiopilot

 

[Radioman100]

It's been impossible. Every store I've checked is sold out.

I'm pretty sure that has nothing to do with the web radio feature.

Maybe this will help, maybe not since it seems you have taken over the spot of being the 'HD guru' around here these days... but I'd rather read the experts than some no name posting here!

http://www.bridgeratings.com/press_08.08.07.HDvsInternet.htm

Radiopilot

Ha! Bridge Ratings and "expert" should NEVER be used in the same post! They use mall surveys and somehow extrapolate the data they get from them to predict trends for the next 20 years. I have a dart board and blindfold that we could probably use to predict the future just as reliably. Even (gulp) Mark Ramsey thinks their methodology is crap. http://www.hear2.com/2006/04/if_its_true_in_.html

Why not head down to your local mall this weekend with a clipboard. Call up a buddy in some other random city and have him head down to his. Do a little surveying. You, yes YOU too could be an "expert!"

 

[radiopilot]

It's been impossible. Every store I've checked is sold out.

I'm pretty sure that has nothing to do with the web radio feature.

Maybe this will help, maybe not since it seems you have taken over the spot of being the 'HD guru' around here these days... but I'd rather read the experts than some no name posting here!

http://www.bridgeratings.com/press_08.08.07.HDvsInternet.htm

Radiopilot

Ha! Bridge Ratings and "expert" should NEVER be used in the same post! They use mall surveys and somehow extrapolate the data they get from them to predict trends for the next 20 years. I have a dart board and blindfold that we could probably use to predict the future just as reliably. Even (gulp) Mark Ramsey thinks their methodology is crap. http://www.hear2.com/2006/04/if_its_true_in_.html

Why not head down to your local mall this weekend with a clipboard. Call up a buddy in some other random city and have him head down to his. Do a little surveying. You, yes YOU too could be an "expert!"

You know for someone who thinks he's a know it all on these boards, you didn't even read the link on Mark Ramsey's post, it had noting to do with my original link on how internet radio is doing compared to HD nonsense...

Here's the link to Mark Ramsey's 2004 Bridge Ratings overture... take a read...

http://www.bridgeratings.com/press_Where Are Listeners Going Update.04.07.2006.htm

Now be a good study and read the Bridge Rating I originally posted above, that is if you can stop the laughing about thinking you are some type of 'expert' here!

Radiopilot

 

[Radioman100]

You know for someone who thinks he's a know it all on these boards, you didn't even read the link on Mark Ramsey's post, it had noting to do with my original link on how internet radio is doing compared to HD nonsense...

Here's the link to Mark Ramsey's 2004 Bridge Ratings overture... take a read...

http://www.bridgeratings.com/press_Where Are Listeners Going Update.04.07.2006.htm

Now be a good study and read the Bridge Rating I originally posted above, that is if you can stop the laughing about thinking you are some type of 'expert' here!

Radiopilot

Why on Earth would I waste time reading it? Their methodology is deeply flawed as Mark Ramsey pointed out. It's junk research.