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How kinescopes of "You Bet Your Life" were saved from being destroyed
- Thread starter BD Sullivan
- Start date
An awful lot of what we can see of early television exists because someone - often just one person - thought to do the right thing and save the stuff. I've heard about this situation a few times, most memorably in the story Mark Evanier tells about his well-informed visit to the dumpsters outside CBS Television City in 1968...
http://www.newsfromme.com/2010/01/20/your-benny-or-your-life/
http://www.newsfromme.com/2010/01/20/your-benny-or-your-life/
Technically, the "You Bet Your Life" episodes were films, not kinescopes.
The show had been filmed in advance (just like the radio version had been taped in advance), so that only the funniest parts of Groucho's interviews, along with the quiz, would be kept in the version fans would hear or see.
The stuff that wasn't as funny (or too risque) would be "left on the cutting room floor".
I had thought that a handful of "You Bet Your Life" episodes (perhaps as many as 15 or 20) weren't saved, and that some that were saved were only in the "syndication version" (the "Best of Groucho" opening, no original commercials, cut by a minute or two, sponsor logos "zoomed out" and the "NBC" on Groucho's RCA 44-BX microphone covered-up, etc.)
The show had been filmed in advance (just like the radio version had been taped in advance), so that only the funniest parts of Groucho's interviews, along with the quiz, would be kept in the version fans would hear or see.
The stuff that wasn't as funny (or too risque) would be "left on the cutting room floor".
I had thought that a handful of "You Bet Your Life" episodes (perhaps as many as 15 or 20) weren't saved, and that some that were saved were only in the "syndication version" (the "Best of Groucho" opening, no original commercials, cut by a minute or two, sponsor logos "zoomed out" and the "NBC" on Groucho's RCA 44-BX microphone covered-up, etc.)
My only dispute with his story was...... I thought that You Bet Your Life was professionally filmed, much the same as I Love Lucy. I suppose there were some kinescopes made but the majority of the episodes were filmed.
BD Sullivan said:
Enjoyed reading that story. Thanks for linking...
Wasn't surprised about Groucho's take-it-or-leave-it response to saving those episodes. Always a difficult personality, even over lunch with colleagues at the club, his peers could be put off by Groucho's biting off-stage sarcasm. The era cited by Groucho's son was the early 1970's, when many of his peers noticed the mustachioed legend starting to decline, both physically and mentally.
I had always heard that one day in 1973 John Guedel got a call
from an NBC employee, telling him that the Peacock Network was
destroying everything from the 1950s and '60s to make room in a
warehouse in New Jersey, and would he like a set of prints of "You
Bet Your Life" as a memento? Guedel asked him how many he had
destroyed; fifteen of 250 "Best Of Groucho" negatives, the man said.
Stop and send what's left to me, said Guedel, who soon found himself
with about 1600 prints. Knowing that there was a tremendous amount
of interest in Groucho among young people, Guedel approached several
LA-area station managers before talking John Reynolds of KTLA into airing
"Best Of Groucho" at 11 PM. The ratings resulted in a number of stations,
mainly big-market independents but a few smaller-market affiliates, into
picking up the show; TV Guide even remarked at the phenomenon of revived
interest in it and the original "Mickey Mouse Club."
from an NBC employee, telling him that the Peacock Network was
destroying everything from the 1950s and '60s to make room in a
warehouse in New Jersey, and would he like a set of prints of "You
Bet Your Life" as a memento? Guedel asked him how many he had
destroyed; fifteen of 250 "Best Of Groucho" negatives, the man said.
Stop and send what's left to me, said Guedel, who soon found himself
with about 1600 prints. Knowing that there was a tremendous amount
of interest in Groucho among young people, Guedel approached several
LA-area station managers before talking John Reynolds of KTLA into airing
"Best Of Groucho" at 11 PM. The ratings resulted in a number of stations,
mainly big-market independents but a few smaller-market affiliates, into
picking up the show; TV Guide even remarked at the phenomenon of revived
interest in it and the original "Mickey Mouse Club."
This makes me wonder if there were other shows where the stars or producers had the chance to get copies of shows they did, but even they saw no value in them and allowed them to be destroyed. It sounds like NBC at least gave some people like Groucho a chance to keep their shows, unlike ABC, who dumped shows in theEast River with no opportunity for anyone to save them.
C
cd637299
Guest
@bpatrick----
Interesting story ya got there.....WCIX ch 6 Miami was one of those indies who ran "Best of Groucho" at 11 pm. As a 14 year old in 1973, on a non school night, I felt that Groucho + the first 2 segments of Johnny Carson were a great one-two TV punch!
But, being a 14 year old game show fanatic, I kept wondering, When'll they get to the game part?!?! I know better now....
cd
Interesting story ya got there.....WCIX ch 6 Miami was one of those indies who ran "Best of Groucho" at 11 pm. As a 14 year old in 1973, on a non school night, I felt that Groucho + the first 2 segments of Johnny Carson were a great one-two TV punch!
But, being a 14 year old game show fanatic, I kept wondering, When'll they get to the game part?!?! I know better now....
cd
PBS aired a best of "Hullabaloo" during fundraising. Just about all but maybe three episodes exist on video tape. What little else that does exist is on kinescopes. Very little of our rock and roll history exist. However, country music product from the same era is plentiful. It is odd that the big three networks did little to archive but three Nashville TV stations could.
Independent WPIX 11 NYC used You Bet Your Life in various time slots for quite a few years. According to TV Guides i've seen, Best of Groucho ran at 8pm for at least one year in the 60s. Then they'd pop it into various late night time slots, give it a rest, and bring it back again, through the 70s and 80s.
I remember them doing the same thing with Burns & Allen. It would run sometime after 11pm, get a rest, then come back, sometimes as late as 12:30 or 1am. Of course, WPIX was also known for running The Honeymooners in late night for year after year, I believe till the 90s. And now it runs late on weekends.
Thanks to Antenna TV, Burns & Allen are on for an hour every weeknight. But nobody runs Best of Groucho, even though those shows I believe are in the public domain and no one has to pay to run them.
When I first moved to the place I am now in 2010, Jewish Life TV, Channel 120 on Time Warner, was running Best of Groucho on occasion. But within a couple of weeks Groucho was gone from their schedule. They have old black-and-white episodes of Jack Benny, The Goldbergs and Dinah Shore. But they got rid of You Bet Your Life for some reason.
I remember them doing the same thing with Burns & Allen. It would run sometime after 11pm, get a rest, then come back, sometimes as late as 12:30 or 1am. Of course, WPIX was also known for running The Honeymooners in late night for year after year, I believe till the 90s. And now it runs late on weekends.
Thanks to Antenna TV, Burns & Allen are on for an hour every weeknight. But nobody runs Best of Groucho, even though those shows I believe are in the public domain and no one has to pay to run them.
When I first moved to the place I am now in 2010, Jewish Life TV, Channel 120 on Time Warner, was running Best of Groucho on occasion. But within a couple of weeks Groucho was gone from their schedule. They have old black-and-white episodes of Jack Benny, The Goldbergs and Dinah Shore. But they got rid of You Bet Your Life for some reason.
With this information, you wonder which videos, kinnescopes, films, etc. of TV shows have been destroyed or (as "anotherguy" has reported) dumped into the East River? I wonder which specific shows from TV history are totally gone?
Anotherguy wondered: said:
Around the same time (maybe a bit earlier??), Sid Caesar and his producer Max Liebman found out that kinescopes of "Your Show Of Shows" were about to be destroyed, and they managed to get all of them and leased a warehouse to store them.
They put together a movie consisting of ten of the best skits of "Your Show Of Shows"; and I believe some episodes have been released on DVD. Hopefully, Caesar (who at this writing is still alive) and Leibman's family will be able to get the entire series released on DVD.
Radio Rob, your point about the Nashville-produced (by Gaylord and others) country music shows is well put. I'll bet the Time/Life producers who put together the Country CD package infomercial were blown away by the quality and quantity of film (not kinescope) and videotape available.
Some of the old video in that infomercial is stunningly clear and crisp.
Some of the old video in that infomercial is stunningly clear and crisp.
Cincinnati Kid said:
A lot of Ernie Kovacs's early TV shows were dumped into the East River according to his widow Edie Adams.
I've wondered what would have happened to those films in the river. Would they be eventually destroyed, or would it have been possible to salvage at least some of them?
Let me hop into my '58 DeSoto...and I'm telling them Groucho sent me!
Joseph_Gallant said:
In 1977, Sid Caesar hosted a weekly show that showed a number of skits.
radiorob2.0 said:
At one point, Producer Norman Lear was to own all the "Showbiz, Inc" (Major Nashville TV producer) content when he bought one of the TV stations there but didnt want to pay to store the shows..Willie Nelson came along and bought all of it..Some of it is still being shown on RFD-TV..
About Hullabaloo, I saw that special last night..Not to denigrate it at all, but it seemed like it wasnt much more than the syndicated "Upbeat Show" with a bigger budget..It was great music, though..
A couple of other interesting finds.....
About ten years ago a warehouse was searched for programming material. It was by accident that many episodes of "The Hollywood Squares" were found after being assumed all episodes were destroyed.
Just prior to Jackie Gleason's death old kinescopes of "The Honeymooners" were found somewhere. They were first aired on Showtime before being released with the rest of the syndication package.
Edit, just looked it up on wiki. It was Gleason that had the kinescopes.
About ten years ago a warehouse was searched for programming material. It was by accident that many episodes of "The Hollywood Squares" were found after being assumed all episodes were destroyed.
Just prior to Jackie Gleason's death old kinescopes of "The Honeymooners" were found somewhere. They were first aired on Showtime before being released with the rest of the syndication package.
Edit, just looked it up on wiki. It was Gleason that had the kinescopes.
More info on the networks disposing old shows: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiping
And Edie Adams's testimony to the Library of Congress on how Ernie Kovacs's shows were destroyed. In her testimony she says the shows were dumped into the Upper New York Bay instead of the East River, which a lot of articles claim: http://www.loc.gov/film/hrng96la.html
And Edie Adams's testimony to the Library of Congress on how Ernie Kovacs's shows were destroyed. In her testimony she says the shows were dumped into the Upper New York Bay instead of the East River, which a lot of articles claim: http://www.loc.gov/film/hrng96la.html
C
cd637299
Guest
It's amazing what turns up, when you think that there's no trace of a show you wanted to take a peek at---and wow there turns up a blip of video.
The pilot film for "The Flintstones", called "The Flagstones," was believed to be long gone. 30 years after the making of it, it turned up in France IIRC. Now it's on YouTube for all to see.
Game 7 of the 1960 World Series, one of the classic ending games of all time, was found a few months ago by Bing Crosby's estate. I understand that MLB Network ran some of it, but not all---it must be valuable enough not to be taped or DVR'ed.
cd
The pilot film for "The Flintstones", called "The Flagstones," was believed to be long gone. 30 years after the making of it, it turned up in France IIRC. Now it's on YouTube for all to see.
Game 7 of the 1960 World Series, one of the classic ending games of all time, was found a few months ago by Bing Crosby's estate. I understand that MLB Network ran some of it, but not all---it must be valuable enough not to be taped or DVR'ed.
cd
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