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How many AM stations still actively use HD Radio (AM-HD)? Are there any in your area?

Wolfie770

Wolfie770

Some stations like KMZT 1260-1, KSL 1160-1, KRLD 1080-1, KOTZ 720-1 & WCHI 1350-1 are all broadcasting using AM-HD, but do they use it at nighttime?

WDGY 740-1 currently broadcasts locally to me, but I can't receive it because my radios AM band just decided to stop working entirely. 830 WCCO and KDIZ 1440 (now KYCR), when it was still Radio Disney - formerly broadcast in HD, but have ceased doing so. KMRY in Iowa was THE first AM-HD station to go on air in the state and it no longer broadcasts in AM-HD, since Fall 2012 apparently.

It seems like many AM-HD stations have turned off their HD signals?

But also, at the same time, some AM Stations are going Digital-Only, like WSHE 820-1 & WFAS 1230-1 and another two used to be digital-only, but one left the air & the other dropped digital-only.

That rly seems to send a lot of mixed signals with some going digital-only, but many stations turning it off too, doesn't it? It seems like AM-HD Radio, in both AM/HD and Digital Only Formats is kind of stuck in a kind of purgatory, as a "solution in search of a problem?"

FM-HD seems to work better than HD-AM and have a purpose which AM-HD lacks. The subchannels alone make it more useful - you can offer CHR/Pop on the HD-2 on an Active Rock station (RIP 93.7-2, "the Machine"), for example, and feed an FM translator with the CHR/Pop HD-2 subchannel. Or you can lease your HD-3 to another party (like KLCI 106.1-3 does) and make some money or rebroadcast a sister AM Station on HD-2/HD-3, like KSTP-HD2 does with KSTP-AM and KMNB 102.9-2 does with WCCO-AM? That alone makes FM-HD more useful & have more of a purpose than AM-HD ever could. Also, stations that have Artist Experience, really blend right into what ppl expect in a in-car entertainment system these days, looking more like Spotify/Pandora than just a freq. display of "97.1 FM2 ST" or, if you're lucky, RBDS text.
 
The hybrid analog/digital AM system is pretty close to dead at this point. It simply doesn't work very well - the interference to and from adjacent channels is a big issue, and it requires a LOT of careful work on antenna systems (especially directional ones) to get flat enough response over a wide RF bandwidth.

Unlike with the FM system, there's been very little development on better encoders and transmission systems because there's very little demand for it. I think GatesAir and Nautel will still sell you HD AM systems, but nobody's really buying them.

Many of the companies that tried it out early on have decided not to replace their first-generation equipment as it's aged out of service. Audacy and iHeart appear to have turned off the system more or less company-wide. In most cases, they've decided they can get more bang for the buck by putting their AM stations' programming on a co-owned FM HD2 or HD3, and they're right. In a lot of cases, too, the big AM stations that were playing with HD (like KCBS) have since added full-power FM/HD1 simulcasts and so AM HD becomes redundant.

The outliers at this point are a few public broadcasters that still have AM signals, Crawford Broadcasting's stations (which remain committed to the system), KSL and a handful of others. I'd estimate there are probably fewer than 100 AM HD stations still on the air with the hybrid system.

The digital-only (MA3) system is another story: it has some interesting potential, but it's still largely experimental because most broadcasters don't want to give up whatever remaining analog audience they have in order to play with the all-digital system.

And to the OP, I don't know what's up with that "-1" suffix you're adding to the AM HDs. While 820 in Frederick has experimented with an HD2, it's not something current receiver firmware can decode, and the FCC has been clear that it won't authorize AM HD2 use, especially not to feed a translator.
 
fybush said:
And to the OP, I don't know what's up with that "-1" suffix you're adding to the AM HDs. While 820 in Frederick has experimented with an HD2, it's not something current receiver firmware can decode, and the FCC has been clear that it won't authorize AM HD2 use, especially not to feed a translator.
Click to expand...
And without the ability to use an AM HD2 to feed a FM translator, there's really no reason to enable AM HD2
 
Denver has five: four Crawford stations and the heritage AM station from Pillar of Fire.

Crawford: KLZ, KLTT, KLVZ, KLDC. Only one, KLVZ, programs music regularly. KLZ is a conservative talk station; KLTT and KLDC have preaching.

Pillar’s KPOF does program some music as well as having traditional preaching programs.

Of this set, KLZ, KLTT, KLVZ, and KPOF have FM translators.

AM HD works but the digital artifacts are hard to tolerate, especially for spoken-word programs.
 
fybush said:
The hybrid analog/digital AM system is pretty close to dead at this point. It simply doesn't work very well - the interference to and from adjacent channels is a big issue, and it requires a LOT of careful work on antenna systems (especially directional ones) to get flat enough response over a wide RF bandwidth.

Unlike with the FM system, there's been very little development on better encoders and transmission systems because there's very little demand for it. I think GatesAir and Nautel will still sell you HD AM systems, but nobody's really buying them.

Many of the companies that tried it out early on have decided not to replace their first-generation equipment as it's aged out of service. Audacy and iHeart appear to have turned off the system more or less company-wide. In most cases, they've decided they can get more bang for the buck by putting their AM stations' programming on a co-owned FM HD2 or HD3, and they're right. In a lot of cases, too, the big AM stations that were playing with HD (like KCBS) have since added full-power FM/HD1 simulcasts and so AM HD becomes redundant.

The outliers at this point are a few public broadcasters that still have AM signals, Crawford Broadcasting's stations (which remain committed to the system), KSL and a handful of others. I'd estimate there are probably fewer than 100 AM HD stations still on the air with the hybrid system.

The digital-only (MA3) system is another story: it has some interesting potential, but it's still largely experimental because most broadcasters don't want to give up whatever remaining analog audience they have in order to play with the all-digital system.

And to the OP, I don't know what's up with that "-1" suffix you're adding to the AM HDs. While 820 in Frederick has experimented with an HD2, it's not something current receiver firmware can decode, and the FCC has been clear that it won't authorize AM HD2 use, especially not to feed a translator.
Click to expand...

Scott, while you’re here - in a hypothetical world where AM continues to falter could the band be re-allocated to increase its bandwidth to 30mhz (or more/less) or would it sooner just be killed off?
 
Radiopaw said:
The San Francisco Bay has zero that I know of. I want to hear it badly too, see if it makes a difference.
Click to expand...

Crawford’s KCBC in Manteca (770) is still broadcasting in HD as far as I know. That could be considered fringe Bay Area, or the gateway to Stockton; your call.

At one time, KCBS, KGO, whatever 960 is called now, and KTCT all broadcast in HD. For various reasons, those stations dropped the system. KNBR could not use HD because its antenna system couldn’t pass the necessary bandwidth.
 
fybush said:
The hybrid analog/digital AM system is pretty close to dead at this point. It simply doesn't work very well - the interference to and from adjacent channels is a big issue, and it requires a LOT of careful work on antenna systems (especially directional ones) to get flat enough response over a wide RF bandwidth.

Unlike with the FM system, there's been very little development on better encoders and transmission systems because there's very little demand for it. I think GatesAir and Nautel will still sell you HD AM systems, but nobody's really buying them.

Many of the companies that tried it out early on have decided not to replace their first-generation equipment as it's aged out of service. Audacy and iHeart appear to have turned off the system more or less company-wide. In most cases, they've decided they can get more bang for the buck by putting their AM stations' programming on a co-owned FM HD2 or HD3, and they're right. In a lot of cases, too, the big AM stations that were playing with HD (like KCBS) have since added full-power FM/HD1 simulcasts and so AM HD becomes redundant.

The outliers at this point are a few public broadcasters that still have AM signals, Crawford Broadcasting's stations (which remain committed to the system), KSL and a handful of others. I'd estimate there are probably fewer than 100 AM HD stations still on the air with the hybrid system.

The digital-only (MA3) system is another story: it has some interesting potential, but it's still largely experimental because most broadcasters don't want to give up whatever remaining analog audience they have in order to play with the all-digital system.

And to the OP, I don't know what's up with that "-1" suffix you're adding to the AM HDs. While 820 in Frederick has experimented with an HD2, it's not something current receiver firmware can decode, and the FCC has been clear that it won't authorize AM HD2 use, especially not to feed a translator.
Click to expand...
I've heard ppl say there's a "hash" on either side of an AM-HD station, if the station was on 770 - it'd create noise on 760 & 780, & maybe 750 & 790 as well in Hybrid on a standard radio. AM is just too bandwidth tight for Hybrid it seems. I can't believe they even tried an AM-2, even in Digital Only, there's just not room between 765 & 775 kHz for all that.

The AM systems are probably just old-stock from the late-00s & early-10s at this point that they keep around "just in case" someone needs a replacement, like KSL & the Crawford Stations still on the hybrid system, so the encoders and systems are stuck in that era, while the FM system has been improved on over time and the FM-HD systems are probably newer & better. A lot of the non-car HD Radios available now are old stock too, except Insignia and such.

Huh, that's really not many - I wonder how many FM-HD stations there are in comparison now?

Seems like a LOT of religious stations in California and a few Sports stations in the South have kept the system, from what little I could find.

It'd be a bad move IMO to dump your Analog Audience, AMs are struggling enough already financially. Maybe if you had an HD-2 or HD-3 on a sister station or some FM translators, you might be able to cut the AM signal to Digital-Only. 🤷🏼‍♂️

😂😂😂 IDK what is with the "-1" - sometimes I write "830-HD", sometimes I write "830-1", I think it's because of FM and TV having -1, -2, -3, -4, -5 etc.
 
Radiopaw said:
Scott, while you’re here - in a hypothetical world where AM continues to falter could the band be re-allocated to increase its bandwidth to 30mhz (or more/less) or would it sooner just be killed off?
Click to expand...
It would take a LOT more attrition to clear the band out enough to make that possible, and the stations that could benefit the most are the ones on the frequencies least likely to be cleared out enough.

You'd also have the challenge of making an antenna system flat enough over 30 kHz, and you'd need a whole new base of receivers. Oh, and you have international treaties getting in the way, too.

So that's very VERY hypothetical at best.
 
MarioMania said:
For DXers HD on AM was the worst

When liked listening to 730 over the Splatter from KCBS

When they went HD, No more..Glad most AM's doesn't have HD
Click to expand...
You can actually DX WCCO better now that they've turned off HD I've heard and it isn't splattering onto 820 & 840 and probably 810 & 850 too (don't take WBAP and KOA away, it's fun to listen to Texan & Coloradan Stations on AM.) Without AM-HD, I can null KKMS and get a good signal from CBW 990 Winnipeg like a local.

HD-AM just has that "solution in search of a problem" feel to it, the bandwidth simply isn't enough for a Hybrid Signal and all-digital isn't catching on very fast.

I'm glad the AMs themselves don't have an AM-HD signal anymore - it's impractical, but Hubbard and Audacy put simulcasts of KSTP-AM on KSTP-HD2 and WCCO-AM on KMNB 102.9-2, which is a better solution.
 
Mark Roberts said:
Denver has five: four Crawford stations and the heritage AM station from Pillar of Fire.

Crawford: KLZ, KLTT, KLVZ, KLDC. Only one, KLVZ, programs music regularly. KLZ is a conservative talk station; KLTT and KLDC have preaching.

Pillar’s KPOF does program some music as well as having traditional preaching programs.

Of this set, KLZ, KLTT, KLVZ, and KPOF have FM translators.

AM HD works but the digital artifacts are hard to tolerate, especially for spoken-word programs.
Click to expand...
That's a LOT of AM-HD stations.

I can see the music having it, but things like preaching, conservative talk and sports etc. don't really need that much more bandwidth than an AM station would provide, do they? But both you and someone else said there's a lot of artifacts in Speech-based programming on HD-AM here or on the other thread I posted today. If it sounds like a terrible 128kbps Napster MP3, I'd rather just listen to the AM or the HD-2/HD-3 repeaters on their sister stations on FM, or their FM translators, if the latter two are available, that is.
 
fybush said:
It would take a LOT more attrition to clear the band out enough to make that possible, and the stations that could benefit the most are the ones on the frequencies least likely to be cleared out enough.

You'd also have the challenge of making an antenna system flat enough over 30 kHz, and you'd need a whole new base of receivers. Oh, and you have international treaties getting in the way, too.

So that's very VERY hypothetical at best.
Click to expand...
With the International Treaty aspect, didn't Regions 1 & 3 kind of get mad when we made the Expanded Band in the Americas?
 
Radiopaw said:
Scott, while you’re here - in a hypothetical world where AM continues to falter could the band be re-allocated to increase its bandwidth to 30mhz (or more/less) or would it sooner just be killed off?
Click to expand...

Doing this makes no sense. The main problem with AM is noise, not bandwidth.
In an amplitude modulation scheme, there is a trade off between noise and bandwidth. Simply increasing the bandwidth would mean more noise at the receiver, not less, which listeners would probably find more objectionable than the present system.
 
Wolfie770 said:
I've heard ppl say there's a "hash" on either side of an AM-HD station, if the station was on 770 - it'd create noise on 760 & 780, & maybe 750 & 790 as well in Hybrid on a standard radio.
Click to expand...
It does. It even has a little of a deadening effect 20 kHz away, though you don't hear the hash there.

Both Crawford and Pillar are running HD day and night in Denver.
 
KOTZ does use HD 24/7 as far as I know and can tell.

KDLG and KBRW dont.. they employ MDCL. modulation dependent carrier level in an effort to save money
 
I am happy listening to AM HD. When I run out beyond where I can get a lock, and the powerline noise comes back, and the analog frequency limiting cones back. I go find something else.
 
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