How many analogue channels did New York and LA have?

[BMR]

Over on Digital Spy, we are debating analogue switchover across Europe. It seems by the end of 2012 only Poland, Ukraine and Greece will still have analogue TV.

Greece don't seem to be in any hurry to switch because, apart from being nearly bankrupt, Greece has 10 analogue TV channels. That's a lot, by European standards.

I was wondering if New York or LA had more channels than that, in the analogue days. Googling obvious things like 'New York analog TV line up' hasn't found anything useful.

Is there a list of the old analogue TV channels anywhere online?

 

[tripinva]

Much more.

New York: WCBS-2, WNBC-4, WNYW-5, WABC-7, WWOR-9, WPIX-11, WNET-13, WNYE-25, WPXN-31, WXTV-41, WNJU-47, and WFUT-68 were just the full-powers transmitting from New York city itself. Include low-powers and you have to add a 17, 26, 32, 35, 39, 42, and 60 at the very least. From surrounding areas, you might have received WLIW-21 and WNJN-50/WNJB-58.

I'll let someone else handle LA, but it actually managed to have more stations than New York.

- Trip

 

[cd637299]

L.A. had more to be allotted by the FCC.

There were channels 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 22, 28*, 34, 40, 46, 52, 58* and 68* allotted to either LA or surrounding communities.

There was 16 in nearby Ventura which lasted less than 1 year in the late 1960s IIRC.

There were also the fringe-area channels 18, 24, 30, 50*, and 63*.

I am sure I am missing a couple.

[* = non-commercial or PBS]

cd

 

[KeithE4]

L.A. had more to be allotted by the FCC.

There were channels 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 22, 28*, 34, 40, 46, 52, 58* and 68* allotted to either LA or surrounding communities.

There was 16 in nearby Ventura which lasted less than 1 year in the late 1960s IIRC.

I believe Ventura returned to the air (at least as a COL) on 57 sometime in the '90s.

There were also the fringe-area channels 18, 24, 30, 50*, and 63*.

I am sure I am missing a couple.

[* = non-commercial or PBS]

cd

Channel 56 in Anaheim, and I think there was a station on Channel 62 somewhere in the area. Riverside?

 

[cd637299]

KDOC 56 Anaheim....of course....to the corner I go.

And 62 Riverside.....

cd

 

[KML0224]

Of course WWOR-TV was/is licensed to Secaucus, NJ. Then there was WLNY-TV (IND) channel 55 of Riverhead, NY, which was available on cable in New York City, if I'm not mistaken. Channel 68 of Newark, NJ had a full-powered satellite on channel 67 licensed to Smithtown, NY. In the "good old days", I used to get a very snowy channel 55 and 67 with my indoor antenna in New Britain, CT. Granted, the signals were quite weak, but they both came in enough to where I knew it was them.

 

[w9wi]

Is there a list of the old analogue TV channels anywhere online?

http://www.w9wi.com/articles/analog-tv.html

The problem you'll have with that list is that the cities listed are the stations' "principal communities" -- the communities the government expects them to serve. A station that serves Newark, New Jersey is going to have a very strong signal across New York City (indeed, its transmitter will probably be in the same place as the NYC stations' transmitters) and will be for all intents and purposes a NYC station.

 

[ShawnHill1]

Los Angeles' channel 18 (KSCI) was originally licensed to San Bernardino, which can be considered fringe, as its 60+ miles from Los Angeles city proper. About a decade ago, the station shifted their city of license to Long Beach. KSCI's studio and offices are located in West Los Angeles (next door to KTTV/KCOP), and transmits from Mount Wilson along with most of the other Los Angeles-area stations.

 

[pab]

Of course WWOR-TV was/is licensed to Secaucus, NJ.

Only since the 1980's thanks to the Bradley Bill. During most of its time as RKO's WOR-TV it was licensed to New York.

 

[BMR]

Thanks, guys

 

[BMR]

Is there a list of the old analogue TV channels anywhere online?

http://www.w9wi.com/articles/analog-tv.html

Just looking at that national list and I see some stations at 5000kw. I bet they went a fair distance.

 

[w9wi]

I was wondering if New York or LA had more channels than that, in the analogue days. Googling obvious things like 'New York analog TV line up' hasn't found anything useful.

To put a bit of international perspective on it, there were ten analog stations in the Toronto market. (that includes CHCH and CITS Hamilton) An eleventh station was built relatively recently and operated only a digital transmitter, never had an analog rig. That station has since shut down its OTA signal and is available on cable only.

 

[BMR]

I was wondering if New York or LA had more channels than that, in the analogue days. Googling obvious things like 'New York analog TV line up' hasn't found anything useful.

To put a bit of international perspective on it, there were ten analog stations in the Toronto market. (that includes CHCH and CITS Hamilton)

Whilst most of Britain had only 5 analogue channels, some places had a 6th, local channel.

Unusually, Derry in Northern Ireland had (and still has for a few months) 10 analogue services- 5 British, 4 Irish and a local one. Technically the transmitter for the 4 Irish services would be considered a 'border blaster'. When the whole island of Ireland switches to digital in October 2012, the Irish channels will be transmitted 'officially' alongside the British ones from transmitters on the UK side of the border.


At the other extreme, Flanders (the Dutch speaking part of Belgium) only ever had 2, that's *two* broadcast TV channels. Cable TV penetration in that part of Europe is 95%!

 

[w9wi]

Just looking at that national list and I see some stations at 5000kw. I bet they went a fair distance.

5000kw was the maximum limit for UHF stations. (actually, it was in terms of dB above 1KW which meant you could get 5010KW)

Again, that's peak power so it's closer to 2500KW average.

In terms of raw distance the 100KW Band I ("VHF-Low", over here) stations did better. There was one in Kentucky I could watch most of the time at a distance of more than 200km. However, they suffered from an awful lot of noise. The UHF stations usually looked better.

 

[kc0ltv]

How about Chicago?

2, 5, 7, 9, 11, 20, 26, 32, 38, 44, 50, 56, and 62 (13 stations, not counting low power)

Minneapolis:

2, 4, 5, 9, 11, 17, 23, 29, 41, and 45 (10 stations, not counting low power)

The Los Angeles and New York markets are a bit hard to count because they have numerous "fringe" stations which only serve part of the market.

 

[HoustonListener]

Houston Metro had 17 full power analog stations listed below (along with a number of low power stations)
2 (NBC)
8 (PBS)
11 (CBS)
13 (ABC)
14 (TBN)
20 (My, formerly UPN)
22 (Daystar)
26 (Fox)
39 (CW, before WB)
45 (Univision)
47 (Telemundo, previous at 48)
49 (Ion, previously Pax) (the station comes from northern suburbs, did operate a low power station near the areas' main transmitter site southwest of the city to better serve the sourthwest suburbs)
51 (at first all news, then indpendent, now TV Azteca)
55 (originally independent, now Mega TV)
57 (was Value Vision, then independent Spanish, now independent English "the Kube"
61 (now Estrella TV (spanish) was La Raza TV
67 (originally was independent, then Home Shopping, now Telefutura for quite a while).

 

[KeithE4]

How about Chicago?

2, 5, 7, 9, 11, 20, 26, 32, 38, 44, 50, 56, and 62 (13 stations, not counting low power)

You forgot 60 (allocated to Aurora) and 66 (allocated to Joliet). That makes 15 channels.

 

[kc0ltv]

How about Chicago?

2, 5, 7, 9, 11, 20, 26, 32, 38, 44, 50, 56, and 62 (13 stations, not counting low power)

You forgot 60 (allocated to Aurora) and 66 (allocated to Joliet). That makes 15 channels.

Yes, my bad. Especially considering that I sometimes received those stations (even on rabbit ears) during tropo openings here in Duluth, MN.

Here are the networks they were affiliated with, c. 2000:

2 - CBS
5 - NBC
7 - ABC
9 - WB / Independent (superstation that aired on cable systems across the US)
11 - PBS
20 - PBS
26 - Independent
32 - FOX
38 - PAX
44 - Spanish Ind.
50 - UPN
56 - PBS?
60 - Home Shopping Network, right?
62 - PBS? or Independent?
66 - Univision

(Note that PBS is more of a programming distributor than a network, so it is possible for there to be multiple PBS stations in a single market with completely different schedules)

 

[Markxxx]

In Chicago in analog days Channels 62 and 56 were fringe. You couldn't get either channel even in downtown Chicago. In the 50s when channels were allocated, NW Indiana and the south burbs had the population. This was not true by the 1980s when the West and NW suburbs leaped in population while NW Indiana and the south burbs tanked.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

(Note that PBS is more of a programming distributor than a network, so it is possible for there to be multiple PBS stations in a single market with completely different schedules)

Yes, its possible. PBS tries to get its affiliates to run certain programs at a regular time, but it generally doesn't have any power to enforce that.