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How to make any radio station (or any other business) fail.

R

Radio_Realist

Guest
Just assume that you, the "professional", always know more about what your listeners (aka your customers) want than they do.

The fastest and surest path to failure in any business, including broadcasting, is ignoring your customers, or assuming that your customers don't know what they want from your business.
 
A corollary to the above post.

When you function in an industry that is closely related to another industry, pay attention to it.

For example, if you manufacture automobiles, pay attention to the gasoline companies.

The radio industry is, in large measure, affected greatly by the music industry. Those of you who select the songs that get played on the radio need to remember that to those who create the music, those of you who merely pick the songs are nothing but recording industry "wannabes" who couldn't make it as musicians who yourselves off as experts on music. If that allegation makes any radio professional angry, good. It should make you angry. Because it's an unfair accusation.

But if it made you angry, flip it around and look at how many of you regard those of us who work to one degree or another in industries that purchase your airtime, along with airtime and page space from other media. To dismiss us as "radio wannabes" because we have informed opinions of your business is just as wrong as record company execs dismissing you as "music industry wannabes".
 
"...your listeners (aka your customers)..."

Probably nitpicking here but radio's listeners ARE NOT it's customers. Radio's customers are the advertisers. Listeners...sadly now fragmented into so many demos... are Radio's product. Radio sells demos.

Along those lines...

Ice cream has no bones.

prisoner6
 
Your point is well taken. Radio stations DO sell listeners to their real customrs. Therefore, a more accurate analgy would be to compare listeners to fish, and radio stations to fishermen. The stations attempt to catch big netfuls of listeners to sell to customers (advertisers).

But to capture those huge netfuls of listeners, radio station managers still need to pay attention to what listeners want to hear. The listener may not literally be customers, but they are the ones who determine whether or not a given station has anything to sell to advertisers.

It would be a shame for the basic message that radio professionals need to pay attention to their listeners if they want to succeed were to be lost just because of an inadequate analagy used to make the point.

> "...your listeners (aka your customers)..."
>
> Probably nitpicking here but radio's listeners ARE NOT it's
> customers. Radio's customers are the advertisers.
> Listeners...sadly now fragmented into so many demos... are
> Radio's product. Radio sells demos.
>
> Along those lines...
>
> Ice cream has no bones.
>
> prisoner6
>
 
This is a terrific discussion topic.

I think the only formula anyone can use in business, almost 100%
regardless....just changed to reflect what you are selling:

Listeners First, Ratings Second, The rest takes care of itself.

Try doing it any other way, and you spend a fortune trying to beg/buy/con people to listen to you, flipping channels and giving away all your ads for
next to or nothing. I've never failed when I took the right approach. The
minute I let "the know it all experts with arrogance start showing
me how to do it," I always had/have the pleasure of pretending to
wish them the best when I 'find them an alternative' source of
employment. What a joke. It's cost millions over the years.
You'd think I'd finally learn.
 
Radio_Realist said:
Just assume that you, the "professional", always know more about what your listeners (aka your customers) want than they do.

The fastest and surest path to failure in any business, including broadcasting, is ignoring your customers, or assuming that your customers don't know what they want from your business.
Realist...I wanted to continue our debate on WJPA-AM, but unfortunately, I can't find the thread for it. So I'm going to cull what I remembered from your last post for my response.

Just to keep it brief...you said "what investment" when I said there would be an investment in starting up what you had in mind for the station. Though WJPA does have space for another studio, they would need to buy equipment to get it up and running. WJPA-AM can be controlled from the news booth, but during the day, that's being used for their hourly newscasts. Sunday, there is no local news, so that studio is free to do the Sunday broadcasts.

The AM would need a dedicated studio to pull off a realistic format split. You would then have to convince the existing on-air staff (who are already very overworked...including the news team) to take on additional duties without a pay increase, which isn't likely to happen.

You mentioned Margie K would be interested in doing a talk program (I've heard her public affairs program on the weekend, and she's VERY GOOD...no argument with you there), but then you have to get someone to cover her shift. That studio is not set up for voice-track, unless they changed it since my departure. I would feel very uncomfortable putting a rookie in there, and by that I mean a Washington and Jefferson intern (or anyone else in a non-paid capacity...they're not reliable and schools rarely (if ever) sanction them for no-shows).

I do disagree with your statement that WJPA-AM and FM, are not sister stations, but rather siamese twins. Yes, they are, but you say one is attractive and the other is ugly. I say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The beauty can be very shallow, while the ugly can become beautiful because the character within shines through and overshadows what you purport to be the 'ugliness' of it all. Character like that is what makes small market radio what it is, and the hokiness it was unfairly labeled with for so long is now missed by many who didn't appreciate what they had until it was gone.

But even for a small-market radio operator like Washington Broadcasting Company, despite its success, still has budget guidelines to adhere to. Their existing staff is paid well by a company that truly takes care of their employees.

I do enjoy our "debates", as you make a lot of sense in the points you make, and you don't back down on your position, as do I. But if WJPA-AM does make an attempt to split its program entirely, there's still considerable investment involved.

Some of you may want to shoot me for saying this, but I do give Forever some credit in the northwest part of the state, where they've created the Allegheny News-Talk-Sports Network. They've taken their four AM stations there and run two separate local morning shows over two AM's each: Franklin-Oil City and Meadville-Titusville, plus local news for all of NWPA that are relevant to their markets. They quad-cast it outside of morning drive. BUT...it makes money, because they run ads wall-to-wall. I would like to see that happen on what's left of CVI, ASP, and ESA. I think there'd be a market for a Mon-Fayette News-Talk Sports Network, run on a similar philosophy, breaking away at the individual station for high school sports. It can be done.
 
Though WJPA does have space for another studio, they would need to buy equipment to get it up and running.

I realize that. The way they have the air and production studios set up doesn't lend itself to separate programming. But, since the two new AM shows I'm proposing are both talk formats, their studio requirements are much simpler. They don't need expensive control boards. One PC with commercials, liners and jingles on MP3 could handle those needs. So, even though they might have to buy some new equipment I'm sure there are enough spare parts like mics on the shelf that they could get a talk format studio up and running with a minimal capital investment.

"but then you have to get someone to cover her shift."


Which could be something as simple as moving Mark Jacobs to cover Margie's shift on FM while she's doing talk on AM and getting Gee Whiz George or one of the other weekend guys to cover the evening hours when there aren't any baseball games or high school sports. Or, if that doesn't work, they can always plug into a syndicated music service to cover the evening hours when there's no sports or post-game talk on the air. That's good enough for Midnight to 6:00 AM. I doubt if it would hurt the evening ad revenues that much, if at all.

And I'm betting that among the three sports guys, they'd all be fighting among themselves to see who'd get to do a sports call in show in afternoon drive time on the AM side.

As for the news guys, if they're doing a five minute newscast every hour on the hour, repeating it on the half hour (updated if something new happens, or otherwise just repeated) isn't that big of an extra workload.

The interns from W&J would only be for use as call screeners for the two new talk shows, not as on-air talent.

What I've described will cost more money. I don't dispute that. On the other hand, it won't cost a whopping big pile of money. The costs of making the change I've described would have to be weighed against the increased revenues from selling spots on the AM side separately from the FM. I don't think any advertiser who buys time now would stop buying or even expect a discount if his spots were only carried on the FM side. Considering how much of WJPA's ad sales are made by their sales staff to local businesses, convincing current advertisers that being on FM only will be a good thing shouldn't be that difficult.

For that matter, convincing local advertisers that they can still reach all of Washington, PA's Oldies fans and now they can also reach Washington, PA's talk and sports fans as well should be a pretty easy sell. I've sold things that were a lot harder to convince people of than that would be.

So the equation boils down to this. If X is the cost of new equipment and personnel expenses, and Y is the additional revenue to be made from increasing sales opportunities because of even more listeners, then the difference between Y and X is the cost or profit of making the change.

I believe that Y would be significantly larger than X. I believe it would start out small, but would steadily grow as long as the quality of the two new AM talk shows was high, there was a reasonable amount of promotion such a live remotes, and the sales staff was aggressive about calling on local businesses to sell spots.
 
Radio_Realist said:
Though WJPA does have space for another studio, they would need to buy equipment to get it up and running.

I realize that. The way they have the air and production studios set up doesn't lend itself to separate programming. But, since the two new AM shows I'm proposing are both talk formats, their studio requirements are much simpler. They don't need expensive control boards. One PC with commercials, liners and jingles on MP3 could handle those needs. So, even though they might have to buy some new equipment I'm sure there are enough spare parts like mics on the shelf that they could get a talk format studio up and running with a minimal capital investment.

"but then you have to get someone to cover her shift."


Which could be something as simple as moving Mark Jacobs to cover Margie's shift on FM while she's doing talk on AM and getting Gee Whiz George or one of the other weekend guys to cover the evening hours when there aren't any baseball games or high school sports. Or, if that doesn't work, they can always plug into a syndicated music service to cover the evening hours when there's no sports or post-game talk on the air. That's good enough for Midnight to 6:00 AM. I doubt if it would hurt the evening ad revenues that much, if at all.

And I'm betting that among the three sports guys, they'd all be fighting among themselves to see who'd get to do a sports call in show in afternoon drive time on the AM side.

As for the news guys, if they're doing a five minute newscast every hour on the hour, repeating it on the half hour (updated if something new happens, or otherwise just repeated) isn't that big of an extra workload.

The interns from W&J would only be for use as call screeners for the two new talk shows, not as on-air talent.

What I've described will cost more money. I don't dispute that. On the other hand, it won't cost a whopping big pile of money. The costs of making the change I've described would have to be weighed against the increased revenues from selling spots on the AM side separately from the FM. I don't think any advertiser who buys time now would stop buying or even expect a discount if his spots were only carried on the FM side. Considering how much of WJPA's ad sales are made by their sales staff to local businesses, convincing current advertisers that being on FM only will be a good thing shouldn't be that difficult.

For that matter, convincing local advertisers that they can still reach all of Washington, PA's Oldies fans and now they can also reach Washington, PA's talk and sports fans as well should be a pretty easy sell. I've sold things that were a lot harder to convince people of than that would be.

So the equation boils down to this. If X is the cost of new equipment and personnel expenses, and Y is the additional revenue to be made from increasing sales opportunities because of even more listeners, then the difference between Y and X is the cost or profit of making the change.

I believe that Y would be significantly larger than X. I believe it would start out small, but would steadily grow as long as the quality of the two new AM talk shows was high, there was a reasonable amount of promotion such a live remotes, and the sales staff was aggressive about calling on local businesses to sell spots.
It sounds like a good idea...but do you think there is that much of a talk radio audience base in Washington? Don't forget that WKEG went this same route back in 1990 when talk radio was a big thing before crashing in the mid-90's and then rose again. They went dark in less than two years' time. I would be a little more optimistic of its success say if the signal reached further than your typical Class IV (or whatever they're calling them nowadays). A discussion forum is one thing...one soliciting open phones is another.

How would you sell it? Especially with influence from PTT and PGB?
 
"do you think there is that much of a talk radio audience base in Washington?"

I stand by what I've been saying all along regarding spoken word formats other than cookie-cutter copies of the syndicated news/talk shows. There are a lot more ways to do a spoken word format than just having some pompous windbag pontificate on his political opinions, or having someone just chat away on phone calls on random topics.

A spoken word format show that includes interviews with local people who have interesting things to say, phone interviews with authors plugging books and other celebrities, interesting raconteurs (and there are far more of them around than you might realize), comedy bits, caller interaction, and other features could be very successful if done well. Those last three words are critical.

There is no such thing as a bulletproof format that is so good, so perfect, so foolproof, that it will succeed no matter how badly it is done. There is no such thing a format that cannot be made to fail by poor execution.

Look at the listings on the WJPA website about events that will be going on in and around Washington, PA. All of those should be grist for interesting interviews. There are actors working at places like Little Lake Dinner Theatre or Washington Community Theatre who can tell entertaining stories and anecdotes.

It would take some work to find good guests at first, but not so much that it couldn't be done. And press agents looking for interview venues for their clients will start knocking on your door non-stop once word gets out that you've got a live radio show with a host that will interview guests.

Since the broadcast industry requires a simple name for any format, I'd call what I'm describing "infotainment talk". You take the high-brow structure of the stuff that's on NPR and bring it down a notch to a level where regular folks will enjoy it. I'm talking about something that is a blend of "Freshe Aire", "All Things Considered", and "Party Line", but geared towards the masses.

To the best of my knowledge, such a program hasn't been tried in decades. There is no track record of such a program succeeding or failing in other markets that I'm aware of. And, even if there was, I still go back to my comment about success or failure being more a result of how well the format is executed, not whether or not the format is so foolproof that it doesn't matter how well it's done.

I think there's enough of an audience in Washington County that would enjoy such programming if it were well done to make it very profitable. For example, I think that a really well-done segment on dining out in Washington County, including restaurant reviews and interviews with chefs would be something that restaurant owners would buy time on. And if the sales staff was on the ball, they could get clothing stores to buy time to run ads on that segment that they're the place to get great clothes for wearing to fancy restaurants.

Success wouldn't be automatic. But success would be very possible if marketed properly by someone who was willing to think a little bit outside the box.
 
Now the question is...since you've conceived this idea, you obviously know what it's about better than anyone. Would you be willing to stand in front of a client and say "this is why you should buy my station" and be prepared to back up any questions they'd have?

Don't get me wrong...I'm not asking this to be nitpicky. I respect your thoughts and ideas, but when I managed stations in the past, I was confronted by some Porky Chedwick wannabe who felt that they had something special to offer listeners (who better than the man himself?). When I asked them to buy the time from me and then turn around and resell the airtime to recoupe their costs, they balked. If they're not willing to take the risk, why should I?
 
"Would you be willing to stand in front of a client and say "this is why you should buy my station" and be prepared to back up any questions they'd have?"

Only if I didn't have to take a pay cut to do it.

"When I asked them to buy the time from me and then turn around and resell the airtime to recoupe their costs, they balked. If they're not willing to take the risk, why should I?"

That reminds me of the time I was acting in a play. Several of us thought that we should have a certain type of costume. The costume lady said if we wanted those costumes, we could make it ourselves. She couldn't understand that being able to deliver lines convincingly in front of an audience is one skill, and making costumes is a totally different skill. Even though the theatre requires both actors and costume makers, it's very, very rare to find someone who is skilled at both totally separate tasks.

Broadcasting is no different. Some of the best broadcasters I know are extremely eloquent when locked away in a little room with just a microphone, but who can't put two words together when they're meeting someone face-to-face. The abilities to do what an on-air broadcaster needs to do in order to be a good on-air broadcaster aren't exactly the same things a good salesman needs to be able to do to be a good face-to-face salesman.

It's real easy for a station manager to dismiss someone who has the skill set to be an excellent broadcaster by forcing him to also be a great salesman. And, it makes for a great anecdote to tell the other station managers. "Yeah, some kid came in with what he thought was a great idea for a program, so I said 'Well then, sell enough spots to buy your own airtime' and the kid wouldn't do it."

Tell me, if someone approached you with a great idea for a radio program, would you expect him to be able to build his own studio from scratch? If you owned a restaurant and someone approached you with a recipe for an entree to put on your menu, would you expect him to be able to plow fields, plant seeds, and grow all of the ingredients?

Speaking only for myself, I'm quite willing to take calculated risks about doing things that I know I have the skill set to handle. But that's far different from taking risks doing things I know I don't have the skill set to handle. The fact is, I discovered early in my career that I wasn't all that good at speaking in a little room with a microphone, but I was very at good speaking into a microphone on a podium in front of hundreds of people. I don't put down those who have the skills I don't have, but it really makes me angry to have those people put down the different skill set that I have.

To put it another way, if you were attempting to sell airtime spots to someone who owned a restaurant, would you accept a challenge from the client to personally cook in his kitchen to handle the increased business that he'd get from running an ad on your station? Or is that a risk you wouldn't want to take?

We all do what we do. Anyone who isn't willing to do something that is outside of their own personal talent and skill set shouldn't expect others to be different.
 
kenhawk1160 said:
Now the question is...since you've conceived this idea, you obviously know what it's about better than anyone. Would you be willing to stand in front of a client and say "this is why you should buy my station" and be prepared to back up any questions they'd have?

Don't get me wrong...I'm not asking this to be nitpicky. I respect your thoughts and ideas, but when I managed stations in the past, I was confronted by some Porky Chedwick wannabe who felt that they had something special to offer listeners (who better than the man himself?). When I asked them to buy the time from me and then turn around and resell the airtime to recoupe their costs, they balked. If they're not willing to take the risk, why should I?

Because someone who can create a great, compelling radio show might not know the first thing about selling air time.
 
kenhawk1160 said:
When I asked them to buy the time from me and then turn around and resell the airtime to recoup their costs...

Which is a pretty fair description of how things work at 770, currently being discussed in another thread. 620 is slightly different, consisting primarily of alternative health/doctor/call-in programs, and some straight paid programming such as infomercials.

Credit has to be given to Frankie Day, who stepped up to the plate with his own money and has made the oldies shows happen on 770 over the course of the past year.

In my experience, almost everyone in radio thinks they have something special to offer listeners. Relatively few do (or, if they do, they haven't bothered to see if there's any listener demand for what they're offering). Fewer still are willing to put their money where their mouth is. I respect those who have the guts to do so.
 
I thought I'd never see anything worse than working for minimum wage in small town radio. But now we have it: Paying your way on the air.

This used to be a profession.
 
Radio_Realist said:
"Would you be willing to stand in front of a client and say "this is why you should buy my station" and be prepared to back up any questions they'd have?"

Only if I didn't have to take a pay cut to do it.

This is exactly what I'm talking about...there is risk on the part of the station operator. Is talent willing to do this? I don't think so.[/i]

"When I asked them to buy the time from me and then turn around and resell the airtime to recoupe their costs, they balked. If they're not willing to take the risk, why should I?"

That reminds me of the time I was acting in a play. Several of us thought that we should have a certain type of costume. The costume lady said if we wanted those costumes, we could make it ourselves. She couldn't understand that being able to deliver lines convincingly in front of an audience is one skill, and making costumes is a totally different skill. Even though the theatre requires both actors and costume makers, it's very, very rare to find someone who is skilled at both totally separate tasks.

Broadcasting is no different. Some of the best broadcasters I know are extremely eloquent when locked away in a little room with just a microphone, but who can't put two words together when they're meeting someone face-to-face. The abilities to do what an on-air broadcaster needs to do in order to be a good on-air broadcaster aren't exactly the same things a good salesman needs to be able to do to be a good face-to-face salesman.

It's real easy for a station manager to dismiss someone who has the skill set to be an excellent broadcaster by forcing him to also be a great salesman. And, it makes for a great anecdote to tell the other station managers. "Yeah, some kid came in with what he thought was a great idea for a program, so I said 'Well then, sell enough spots to buy your own airtime' and the kid wouldn't do it."

Tell me, if someone approached you with a great idea for a radio program, would you expect him to be able to build his own studio from scratch? If you owned a restaurant and someone approached you with a recipe for an entree to put on your menu, would you expect him to be able to plow fields, plant seeds, and grow all of the ingredients?

You miss the point, which Clarke pointed out beautifully in his own thread. There are too many jocks out there who believe that what they have to say/play is what the listener wants. These guys are from a time when just about every radio station on the dial was a diverse, program-oriented middle-of-the-road format. Today, formats and audiences are fragmented, and in small market radio, your advertisers are primarily what drives your success. It's often hard to understand, and nobody wants to admit it, but the listeners are second. A station that depends on local revenue for 90 percent of its billing is going to cater to the needs of its advertisers. You could get a #1 Arbitron market rating, which would look attractive to an agency, but if the guy who owns the local hardware store is pitched a station he doesn't like, he's not going to care one way or another what that book says. Period. There is no way on God's Green Earth that you're going to get enough agency billing to sustain your station. Local billing doesn't just contribute to your bottom line, it also enhances your local image by lending credibility from a reputable business. Like "If Johnson's Hardware is advertising on WXXX, then they must be OK".

Speaking only for myself, I'm quite willing to take calculated risks about doing things that I know I have the skill set to handle. But that's far different from taking risks doing things I know I don't have the skill set to handle. The fact is, I discovered early in my career that I wasn't all that good at speaking in a little room with a microphone, but I was very at good speaking into a microphone on a podium in front of hundreds of people. I don't put down those who have the skills I don't have, but it really makes me angry to have those people put down the different skill set that I have.

Now that is my point. A jock who pitches for example, some R&B show with questionable lyrics that some listeners would find offensive and have the potential to put the overall revenue of the station at risk, but the jock in question doesn't see it that way. He believes the ego-feeding that the cult that likes his stuff gives him. This realm of music would be as you say is a different skill set that your typical manager would have inasmuch as selling it. This is why I say, again, "how would you sell it"? That's not intended to offend anyone or put down one's talents, but this business is far different than what it used to be. If you're so convinced it would sell, then show us how to do it. These are answers that need to be given when a sales rep is out selling your product. The guys from 'the good old days' are hanging on to those times waiting for it to revert, and sadly, it never will. It's getting tougher for the mom-and-pop operations to survive these days, and if guys like John James, Bob Stevens, and others like them to broker out their time, then more power to them. Their stations are different, and they're successful, but they don't have the risk factor they would if they tried such a venture with everyone being paid. When a program host makes a vested interest in airtime, they care a great deal more about their product.

To put it another way, if you were attempting to sell airtime spots to someone who owned a restaurant, would you accept a challenge from the client to personally cook in his kitchen to handle the increased business that he'd get from running an ad on your station? Or is that a risk you wouldn't want to take?

Amusing, but again you miss the point.

We all do what we do. Anyone who isn't willing to do something that is outside of their own personal talent and skill set shouldn't expect others to be different.




Yes, we all do what we do, and most of the people still in this business either play by the rules or find something else to do with their lives. They don't expect the industry to change for them. Those who have truly been in this business know what it's like to deal with clients face to face (not just sales, but more and more airstaff as well). The bottom line is, jocks who want to have a show should be prepared to sell their show to the manager/owner the same way he would have to sell it to an advertiser. Even those who aren't in the sales profession sell themselves every day. A job interview is a great example of that, and every manager wants to know the answer to the same question..."how will your program make me money?" If you can't answer that question, then pay to play.
 
"But now we have it: Paying your way on the air."

As a listener, it's not all that difficult to pick out the brokered programs. Those I've heard where the DJ buys his airtime usually sound like programs hosted by a salesman. As a businessman and marketer by trade, I applaud any entrepreneur who can make a profit from his radio station by filling it with brokered shows. As a listener, when I encounter brokered time stations whilst channel surfing, I quickly change the station. My admiration for an entrepreneur's skill at making a profit isn't sufficient to get me to listen to inferior programs.

"The bottom line is, jocks who want to have a show should be prepared to sell their show to the manager/owner the same way he would have to sell it to an advertiser."

I cannot dispute that. But as someone who has successfully sold a great many different things to a great many different people, I've learned that there are some potential buyers who simply cannot be sold. I think everyone who has worked in the media industry selling advertising, whether broadcast or print, knows of businesses who should have bought advertising, who needed to buy advertising, who would have benefited from advertising, but who simply wouldn't listen to any sales pitch because they had totally closed minds.

There are more than a few radio station managers and/or owners who are the exact same way. They have their minds made up in advance about everything, and they wouldn't listen to a pitch for a new program or style of program no matter who was making it.

I don't recall the exact number, but the percentage of entrepreneurial start-ups that fail is incredibly high. And the number of sole proprietorship radio stations that fail and either go dark or are sold to a media chain for next to nothing is also far higher than it should be. If all radio station operators really knew what was best to put on the air, then all radio stations would be successful, in-the-black operations. Since all stations aren't successful, then maybe all radio station operators don't know what is best to put on the air.

Many years ago I was in a business-to-business sales job. We had to use the phone a lot to secure appointments. All of us insisted that our own boss had to always accept all incoming sales solicitation calls to our company. If he expected us to be able to get through to talk to decision makers, then as our decision maker, it was only right that he be available to salespeople himself.

If a radio station manager expects his sales staff to be successful at finding clients with open enough minds to at least listen to a sales pitch and consider radio advertising instead of automatically saying "no", then that station manager should also listen to sales pitches made to him with an open mind.

"Fewer still are willing to put their money where their mouth is."

Willing is one thing, able is another. Radio Boss had it totally correct: "Because someone who can create a great, compelling radio show might not know the first thing about selling air time."

For every station operator who makes a sincere challenge to someone looking to put a new show on the air, there are a dozen who simply use that as an alternate "don't call us, we'll call you" excuse. It's one thing to share risks. It's one thing to expect someone to accept a reasonable risk like deferring any compensation until the station's professional sales staff can sell spots for the show. Like I said in an earlier post, you wouldn't expect someone with a great program content idea to also be able to re-wire the transmitter. Those are two different skills. So why does everyone with a great program content idea have to also be an air-time salesman?

And as for the fact that everyone who pitches a programming idea thinks it's great, being able to sell their own spots doesn't prove that their programming idea is great. It proves that they can sell airtime. Station operators are supposed to have the instincts, experience, and judgement to recognize whether a programming idea is good or not. Making those kinds of decisions, and making them correctly, is what separates the top operators from the middle of the pack. Blowing off programming ideas with the "put your money where your mouth is" argument is a cop out for someone who is unwilling or unable to do what a station operator is supposed to do -- make programming decisions.
 
I don't recall the exact number, but the percentage of entrepreneurial start-ups that fail is incredibly high. And the number of sole proprietorship radio stations that fail and either go dark or are sold to a media chain for next to nothing is also far higher than it should be. If all radio station operators really knew what was best to put on the air, then all radio stations would be successful, in-the-black operations. Since all stations aren't successful, then maybe all radio station operators don't know what is best to put on the air.

I won't argue with that. I knew of one DJ in the Detroit market who bought his own radio station because he felt he could sell his program full-time. He was one of the original "Honey Radio" DJ's and was forced to buy his airtime and resell it to advertisers if he wanted to keep his show. After he had had practice at this and had become quite good at selling his program, he felt he could own and operate his own station. That venture lasted only a couple of years, before he was forced to sell it at a huge loss.

As a listener, it's not all that difficult to pick out the brokered programs. Those I've heard where the DJ buys his airtime usually sound like programs hosted by a salesman.

I say you haven't heard enough such programs. This same jock of whom I speak managed to sell his show by doing it live from the sponsor's business, using a fax line and dialup box he had purchased with his own money. Listeners could go to the client and see him in action. Great floor traffic idea! And, THAT, my friend is REAL thinking out of the box!

So why does everyone with a great program content idea have to also be an air-time salesman?

If the idea was truly great, don't you think more managers/operators would be willing to take that chance? It's so easy for someone to believe they have a great idea because it's different, but THEY aren't the ones fighting to get the revenue needed to pay people and fixed expenses.

Blowing off programming ideas with the "put your money where your mouth is" argument is a cop out for someone who is unwilling or unable to do what a station operator is supposed to do -- make programming decisions.

Again, see my comment above. You have yet to show me anything proving that listeners would buy time on a particular program. I would want to know things like what is your typical listener? Male or female? What age? Do they have disposable income? These are things clients want to know.

Station operators are supposed to have the instincts, experience, and judgement to recognize whether a programming idea is good or not.

That's why they're in the business. Because they're accountable for what gets on the air. Anyone who wants a program with offbeat content that badly should try public radio.

Still, lest you think I have a completely closed mind, I admire the operation of Mr. Stan Wall, who owns WQTW in Latrobe and WLSW in Scottdale. He's been in radio as a jock for years prior to putting WLSW on the air back in 1971...when few cars had FM radios at the time. His weekend oldies jocks (Charlie Apple, Jeff Allen, and I think Porky Chedwick still does an occasional show there) are all paid employees. But here's his advantage...he once played the music before becoming a businessman and he's had years of practice in knowing how to market it to make it worth his while. Before those guys were hired, he had 20 years of experience as both jock and hands-on owner-operator to know how to sell and market it. Most managers don't own the stations they run. I for one would not put my job at risk on a "maybe". I would make the talent accountable for their shows, and this is the surest way to do it...make them have a vested interest in doing so.
 
This is an interesting thread and I'll try to respond to some of the later comments.

"Paying your way on the air" has been going on for decades. How long have the weekend ethnic programs been on WPIT? Does anyone remember the days when the sponsors owned the shows, and "unpaid" programs were called "sustaining" by the networks? This really isn't all that much different.

I don't mind brokered programming, although neither do I persuade myself that many of the shows are there for their entertainment value. They're on the air because someone paid for them. That is much less disingenuous to me than a lot of what goes on in radio these days. No "added-value promotions" for clients. No "non-traditional" revenue sources. We have the air time, they buy it. Neat and easy.

770 is a different situation. There are those of us who are radio professionals, who have spent their lives and careers doing this work and who get paid for it, and I am among the many who do.

Then there are those who are not radio professionals, who do something else as their full-time career or source of income (Frankie Day, for example, owns a highly successful office-supplies store in North Versailles), who may or may not have any radio experience, but who want to be on the air, perhaps as a weekend lark, to "play their songs"" (think again of WZUM before Mad Mike's untimely death).

Those people probably would never get hired as DJs, particularly with little or no professional radio experience, but they can buy the time and sell commercials to their own sponsors, and everyone comes out happy. (Judging from the number of events he has been emceeing lately, Frankie has become something of a minor local celebrity.)

And not to put too fine a point on it, but when you have a daytimer in the suburbs, there are only so many potential avenues to profitability. There was a time not long ago when 1530 (now 770) was nothing more than an automation carousel, going around and around, without even a single commercial. Not any more.
 
Radio_Realist said:
Station operators are supposed to have the instincts, experience, and judgement to recognize whether a programming idea is good or not. Making those kinds of decisions, and making them correctly, is what separates the top operators from the middle of the pack. Blowing off programming ideas with the "put your money where your mouth is" argument is a cop out for someone who is unwilling or unable to do what a station operator is supposed to do -- make programming decisions.

Just as an aside, we've never told anyone to "put their money where their mouth is." That's an action, not an argument. The people who buy time on both of our stations have, for the most part, approached us, not the other way around.

If we had a 50,000-watt FM station, I'm sure the business model would be different. But I have great respect for how Bob was able to take a failing WHJB (literally on its last legs after losing its tower site) and an almost-forgotten WBCW, and turn them into two more powerful and profitable AM stations.

As a friend of mine once said, "Don't scoff at paid programming until you've scanned the balance sheets."
 
This is exactly what I'm getting at, Clarke. Thanks. You guys are doing a great job up there, by the way.
 
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