How Well Does KXNT 840 Come In In Southern California At Night?

[Schroedingers Cat]

Maybe David and some of the other Southern CA DXers can tell us how well KXNT 840 comes in there.

I talked to Bob, the man who originally put it on the air yesterday, as KVEG, along with several other AM, FM and LPTV stations. He has some fascinating radio stories.

 

[radioman148]

Maybe David and some of the other Southern CA DXers can tell us how well KXNT 840 comes in there.

I talked to Bob, the man who originally put it on the air yesterday, as KVEG, along with several other AM, FM and LPTV stations. He has some fascinating radio stories.

From my visits to Southern California KXNT comes in pretty well at night. During the day you can hear it in the Coachella Valley. Now that KDWN has dropped power KXNT is stronger.

 

[davideduardo]

Maybe David and some of the other Southern CA DXers can tell us how well KXNT 840 comes in there.

Eastern Coachella Valley: Indoors on Tecsun portable. Overcome by noise. No sign of it. Outdoors on same radio, 100 feet away from homes and power lines: noisy but readable. Not a "listener" grade signal, but seemed quite stable around noon today.

Note: where I live there are no above ground power lines for over a mile in any direction, and all utilities are underground. Most residential noise is from my... and my neighbors'... wall warts and other noise producing devices.

I talked to Bob, the man who originally put it on the air yesterday, as KVEG, along with several other AM, FM and LPTV stations. He has some fascinating radio stories.

What's holding you back? Tell them to us!

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Though I didn't know who he was at the time (mid 1960s) he did "remotes" at various businesses, like Drive In Ice Cream establishments. He had a Part 15 type transmitter, which got out several hundred feet, and called his station "WDAW 1200". If you google "WDAW 1200" in quotes, a few links will come up. Bob was 16 at the time I met him. A couple years later, he had shows on a couple stations which hired Co-Op High School students. He had a show that did an hour of Top 40, and he even had a printed Music Survey. Still didn't know who he was. My mother ran into and talked to him more than two decades later in Cheboygan at a Walmart Grand Opening, which connected all the dots. I think his new station, WFGE 94.3 Mackinaw City, called "Fudgie", after the resorters who go up to buy Mackinac Island Fudge, was doing a real remote there. Turns out he also went to my HS, graduating four years ahead of me.

He applied for quite a number of AM and FM stations, and at least five were granted and built, one of which was KVEG 840 Las Vegas, now Audacy's KXNT. Now he is mainly involved in putting Digital LPTVs on the air.

His other stories related negotiating interference or buying out mutually exclusive applications for the AMs, so they could be granted.

 

[boombox4]

FWIW, KXNT 840 comes in maybe once a week or so (with readable signals) underneath the other, closer stations on 840 here (KSWB in Oregon, KKNX Eugene, KMAX in Eastern Washington, and a Canadian station that plays country, CKBX, in BC). it's always nice to hear Las Vegas, especially during the winter here when it's 40 degrees and rain and you know it's probably a bit warmer in LV.

 

[cyberdad]

From my visits to Southern California KXNT comes in pretty well at night. During the day you can hear it in the Coachella Valley. Now that KDWN has dropped power KXNT is stronger.

Just came across this thread (still limping along on a spare laptop).....

This is pretty much my experience as well. Last spring at Palm Springs, as well as at my brother-in-law's place in the high desert about 40 miles from there, KXNT daytime is there, but not comfortably listenable. I've never heard it daytime in Los Angeles or during daytimem but at night, the signal all over So-Cal is usually pretty good. IIRC, KXNT also turns up on the Kaneohe, Hawaii SDR from time to time.

 

[TomásEstefan]

Just came across this thread (still limping along on a spare laptop).....

This is pretty much my experience as well. Last spring at Palm Springs, as well as at my brother-in-law's place in the high desert about 40 miles from there, KXNT daytime is there, but not comfortably listenable. I've never heard it daytime in Los Angeles or during daytimem but at night, the signal all over So-Cal is usually pretty good. IIRC, KXNT also turns up on the Kaneohe, Hawaii SDR from time to time.

In my part of SoCal (SFV) KXNT has a reasonably strong nighttime signal, but the Modesto station is clearly audible underneath unless you're using a portable rcvr and null it out.

 

[TomásEstefan]

BTW does anyone know the reason KDWN knocked their power down? In years gone by you could hear them in the San Bernardino area all day right next to KMPC!

 

[radioman148]

Just came across this thread (still limping along on a spare laptop).....

This is pretty much my experience as well. Last spring at Palm Springs, as well as at my brother-in-law's place in the high desert about 40 miles from there, KXNT daytime is there, but not comfortably listenable. I've never heard it daytime in Los Angeles or during daytimem but at night, the signal all over So-Cal is usually pretty good. IIRC, KXNT also turns up on the Kaneohe, Hawaii SDR from time to time.

KXNT can be heard on a decent car radio away from noise in the Southern Calif desert during the day. As you said at night it's much better.

 

[radioman148]

BTW does anyone know the reason KDWN knocked their power down? In years gone by you could hear them in the San Bernardino area all day right next to KMPC!

It's my understanding that they moved their transmitter location and because of this had to drop power.

 

[cyberdad]

BTW does anyone know the reason KDWN knocked their power down? In years gone by you could hear them in the San Bernardino area all day right next to KMPC!

Yep. 25kw days 7.5kw directional night. I believe they used to be 50kw fulltime (directional at night)

 

[radioman148]

Yep. 25kw days 7.5kw directional night. I believe they used to be 50kw fulltime (directional at night)

Correct and KDWN used to reach the Hawaii SDRs at night. Now I rarely hear it. Usually WGN is well on top on 720. Even KFIR makes it over KDWN on the Hawaii SDRs.

 

[TomásEstefan]

Yep. 25kw days 7.5kw directional night. I believe they used to be 50kw fulltime (directional at night)

KDWN's 50 kW night signal used to be "local" in my area, now its very weak.

 

[cyberdad]

Correct and KDWN used to reach the Hawaii SDRs at night. Now I rarely hear it. Usually WGN is well on top on 720. Even KFIR makes it over KDWN on the Hawaii SDRs.

Glad you mentioned the Hawaii SDRs. For the time being, I'm mostly using my spare laptop, which doesn't have the link to the SDRs/map. Could you or someone else reading this either post or PM me the link? Thanks in advance!

 

[radioman148]

http://rx.linkfanel.net/Glad you mentioned the Hawaii SDRs. For the time being, I'm mostly using my spare laptop, which doesn't have the link to the SDRs/map. Could you or someone else reading this either post or PM me the link? Thanks in advance!

Here is the link to the Kaneohe, Hi SDR http://72.235.217.245:8073/
I was just listening to it last night, which BTW I heard WGN at 01:30 CST time. no sign of KDWN.
Here is the link to the map Wideband shortwave radio receiver map

 

[davideduardo]

It's my understanding that they moved their transmitter location and because of this had to drop power.

They wanted a simpler antenna system and less land usage. The new power level is more than enough to cover Las Vegas well.

 

[fybush]

They wanted a simpler antenna system and less land usage. The new power level is more than enough to cover Las Vegas well.

Had nothing to do with a "simpler antenna system."

The original 1975 transmitter site that has been in open desert in Henderson had become immensely valuable for development, so they sold it.

The new DA, diplexed in NLV with KXST 1140, is actually more complicated than the old 3-tower site was.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

They wanted a simpler antenna system and less land usage. The new power level is more than enough to cover Las Vegas well.

See Pages 22-23 +or- ff of this Exhibit. New site appears to be closer to the population center than the previous site. A few miles closer can make a big difference. It's like moving a so called rimshot Class A FM closer to the population center. Even if it's under Paragraph 73.215, and perhaps 3 kW nondirectional vs. 6 kW directional, it can make a big difference. There are even a few ~200 watt Class D AM PSSAs in small to medium size center city TLs that cover better than a whole new array with multiple towers and much more power much further out. Many variables to consider though. Every situation is different.

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS_Attachment/getattachment.jsp?appn=101806366&qnum=5120&copynum=1&exhcnum=1

 

[davideduardo]

Had nothing to do with a "simpler antenna system."

The original 1975 transmitter site that has been in open desert in Henderson had become immensely valuable for development, so they sold it.

The new DA, diplexed in NLV with KXST 1140, is actually more complicated than the old 3-tower site was.

I heard from an engineer in the market that the new site was "simpler" because the transmitter area for that station could be wired for lower power AC, which made power requirements less. In 110° Las Vegas summers, that is simplification. The shared array seems to be located much better for a lower night power as it is NE of the metro rather than literally inside it and having to get a lot of power to the north. Now, just aim SW and cover Vegas.

What I meant by "simplification" is not just the DA, but the infrastructure and operating costs. And sharing a site with partners may be complicated in design, but once done has shared maintenance and even can share engineering if the stations can agree on that. Yeah, I should have said that better!

 

[davideduardo]

See Pages 22-23 +or- ff of this Exhibit. New site appears to be closer to the population center than previous site.

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS_Attachment/getattachment.jsp?appn=101806366&qnum=5120&copynum=1&exhcnum=1

Previous site was at the SSE end of today's metro, meaning that a lot of population (particularly newer areas) was now directly north of it. New site allows better overshoot of the signal across the market.

One of my daughters lived for several years in Henderson and commented on how the entire area she was in had grown in recent years from open desert to full development.

A good example of a market outgrowing an old directional system is the former KDES 920 in Palm Springs. The DA system for night operation was locate NE of Palm Springs, and for years it covered the populated area. Then the population started growing to the SE, and the station did not have a night signal there. Finally, the separate towns of Palm Springs and Indio became a single ratings metro, and KDES only covered about half in the daytime and less than a third at night. Conductivity in some desert areas is so bad that moving to the northeast would put a weak signal everywhere.

The other observation is that 50 kw was never needed in Vegas. There is no nearby population center worth serving and no more revenue to be had with 50 kw than with 10 kw or the like. I think a number of the assignments on the 1A clears were granted due to rural area coverage, and many of the stations so granted did nothing to serve those areas as there was no economic benefit in doing that.