How would a Smooth AC station like 94.7 The Wave/Los Angeles do in New York?

[WestchesterMan]

How would a Smooth AC station like 94.7 The Wave/Los Angeles do in New York? A combo of R&B (Alicia Keys/Luther Vandross), Lite FM Adult Pop and Smooth Jazz. Im sure it was get secondary listeners from WBLS since that station sounds like pure crap.

 

[reelyreal]

I'm going to say "about as terrible as The Wave does in L.A.," which is pretty awful.

 

[Groove1670]

I am a fan of the Smooth AC format. However I realize the format is not a PPM format, and is aging out. Probably will not fly in the Big Apple.

94.7 has expanded the selections to include more classic (pop friendly) R&B tunes. Not so much a Smooth AC anymore.

 

[Mikon8er]

Probably not well, but it would take in a measurable fan base for sure. As a result of audience research stemming from the young "teenager" generation getting driver's licenses and getting their hands on cars, many "adult contemporary" stations have ditched the traditional 1970s/1980s/1990s "soft rock" approach in favor of new playlists incorporating top 40 and teen pop songs that can incorporate heavier and more upbeat elements, pretty much rendering the stations an only somewhat watered down counterpart to hot adult contemporary; a move that although sometimes controversial, has been met with ratings successes. It would have a a very loyal fan base, but not one big enough to make it financially viable, although ratings don't necessarily influence profitability. In simple words, it's highly unlikely after such continued failure in a market not much smaller. Then, there's the demographic makeup. Currently, my fingers are crossed for a rock station of some sort.

 

[Jeffrey]

Looking at the play list I would classify The Wave as an urban AC and would think it would go up against WBLS which is now in 3rd place. I don't see much of a difference in terms of format really. It seems like it's only a question of time before someone goes up against WBLS. It's ironic how poorly ESPN is doing since the demise of WRKS.

 

[pjc1961]

Mediabase rolling playlist of the previous 48 hours on KTWV L.A. -
http://www.mediabase.com/whatsong/whatsong.asp?var_s=075084087086045070077

KTWV playlist from their web site (change date in URL to go back further than one week):
http://947thewave.cbslocal.com/playlist/

Another station in Southern California that had a long standing smooth jazz format that also morphed into smooth AC but has now adopted a soft AC format known as "Easy 98.1 San Diego" is KIFM - playlist here:
http://www.easy981.com/music/broadcasthistoryaspx.aspx

Agreed that KTWV has an urban AC lean - a bit jazzier than most owing to the station's roots.
Keep in mind that WRKS Kiss FM had a 4.0 share when it signed off in April 2012 (and had been between 3.0-4.0 shares over the previous year or two), yet billed $11 million in 2011. I'm not sure what the current sports format is billing on 98.7, but it may be similar despite its mid-1 shares since it reaches a desirable mens demographic. Also noting that Emmis had company-wide financial considerations and circumstances that contributed to the eventual LMA-ing of WRKS NYC and KMVN L.A.

 

[crainbebo]

Opposite in Albuquerque - 103.7 the Oasis (K279BP, KOAZ 1510 AM) is doing very well. There are contests, local personalities, good advertising levels, and a lot of people tuning in to the relaxing jazz. And they BLACKLIST Kenny G. (Only two songs are in their library from Kenny G). It just depends on if the station is running good with a good playlist and advertising, and it may have a shot. It's been on since Feb. 2012 (and now it's been one year, seven months and doing great)

-crainbebo

 

[davideduardo]

Opposite in Albuquerque - 103.7 the Oasis (K279BP, KOAZ 1510 AM) is doing very well. There are contests, local personalities, good advertising levels, and a lot of people tuning in to the relaxing jazz. And they BLACKLIST Kenny G. (Only two songs are in their library from Kenny G). It just depends on if the station is running good with a good playlist and advertising, and it may have a shot. It's been on since Feb. 2012 (and now it's been one year, seven months and doing great)

What facts do you base "doing great" on?

The station, in Spring, 2013, was 33rd in 25-54. While, admittedly, ABQ is not as much a transactional market as larger cities are, KOAZ is doing very poorly in reaching non-seniors.

As to "good advertising levels" you should consider that stations sell at different rates. One thing is to have lots of $2 spots and another thing is to have lots of $50 spots. At a reported billing level of less than $20 k a month, the station has to be very frugal to make any money at all. After all, the top biller in the market does nearly $400 k a month... and a dozen stations bill $100 k a month or more.

Sister station KQNM was dark for most of last year.

 

[Gregg.]

While it's true that Smooth Jazz stations are having trouble holding onto the 25-54 demo, let's remember that KOAZ is an AM station in a suburb of Albuquerque plus an FM translator. Albuquerque, in the middle of nowhere, is over-radioed. It has its own 100,000 watt stations, plus 100,000 watt outlets from Santa Fe and Los Alamos targeting the Albuquerque market. It has maybe double the FM signals as Minneapolis.

KOAZ's AM signal drops to 25 watts at night. The FM translator pumps out a few hundred watts, amid these 100 kw blowtorches. Hey, I'm pleasantly surprised it's #33 in the 25-54 demo. Where should it be? What format is missing in Albuquerque this little pea-shooter should be doing? Albuquerque is so over-radioed that they have a 100 kw commercial Classical station.

But as for the original post, NYC is under-radioed. There are only 18 full power commercial FM stations in NYC. The suburban stations are only 3000 to 6000 watts, not 100,000. They can't target the full market from White Plains or Asbury Park. A station trying to make it on an FM translator would have no chance in the NYC market that stretches from Princeton to Montauk. So unfortunately no one is going to try a format such as Smooth AC or Smooth Jazz, or anything that isn't mass appeal.

 

[Groove1670]

KTWV actually plays pop friendly crossovers (hits that were on the mainstream top 40 charts) with one or two smooth jazz cuts per hour. It is not really a Urban AC.

Hence, the definition of Smooth AC.

 

[davideduardo]

The FM translator pumps out a few hundred watts, amid these 100 kw blowtorches. Hey, I'm pleasantly surprised it's #33 in the 25-54 demo. Where should it be?

K279BP is 250 watts, but at over 4,000 ft over average terrain. It puts a 60 dbu over 95% of the population of the metro. While it is not a Sandia Crest full C, it has enough power to do well in the relatively small population center of ABQ.

The operator and her husband are skilled operators of very very marginal facilities. If anyone can make formats-out-of-favor work in ABQ, it is that team. Of course, they bought that translator for $15 k two years ago (less than the cost of a KIA Soul, but without the hamsters), so there is not a previous owner to pay off.

But the real issue is that ABQ has a lot of direct business and not as much agency business as New York City. So they can run the station on the cheap, and make money. There is little business to be had in NY for a station with horrible 25-54 numbers and an out of favor format.

 

[Jeffrey]

K279BP is 250 watts, but at over 4,000 ft over average terrain. It puts a 60 dbu over 95% of the population of the metro. While it is not a Sandia Crest full C, it has enough power to do well in the relatively small population center of ABQ.

The operator and her husband are skilled operators of very very marginal facilities. If anyone can make formats-out-of-favor work in ABQ, it is that team. Of course, they bought that translator for $15 k two years ago (less than the cost of a KIA Soul, but without the hamsters), so there is not a previous owner to pay off.

But the real issue is that ABQ has a lot of direct business and not as much agency business as New York City. So they can run the station on the cheap, and make money. There is little business to be had in NY for a station with horrible 25-54 numbers and an out of favor format.

Do you call it out of flavor because it's smooth ac? Looking at the playlist I can't really tell the difference between that and urban ac.
Would there not be room for another urban ac or urban ac-type format in New York that would pull in decent 25-54 numbers? Perhaps the format is less of a money maker than AC as a stand alone format...? I don't have those numbers so I'm curious.

 

[davideduardo]

Do you call it out of flavor because it's smooth ac?

It's out of favor because it is a 55+ format.

... just like Beautiful Music, standards, oldies.