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I hate to be the bearer of bad news

"The unquestioning reliance of radio on demographics puzzles me. For instance, is it wise to cater to a certain age group to secure instant rewards at the price of alienating the rest of the age groups and losing money over the long haul?"

The answer(s) to your intriguing question, from one in radio management: Yes

1. Today's fragmented audience, due to more radio stations in the last four decades, conglomerate "repeater radio", a fickle audience of demographics that overlap in some important ells, but alienating others.

2. The difficulty of too many "media choices," new technology serving the younger demos that grew up in the Internet age, not the Radio age, the ineffectiveness of many 5 and 6 share radio stations in markets large and small (with dozens of stations available,) a struggling economy -- especially as it applies to "media choices," and the decline of AM radio in more than 80 percent of the markets it scores not as #1 -- but within the Top 5, (one station at a time, not as a meaningful media outside of news/talk.)

3. Every station chasing the same demos: 18-34, 25-49, 18-49 -- forgetting the upcoming teens so prevalent in years past, but now, not near as popular as stations need. Little originality and creativity. Focus on males 18-24 not as popular as thought.

4. To much "sameness."

5. To much poor or borderline talent.

6. Disregard for older demographics 35+, 50+ and not so much to back up a "support" demo.

7. Non-creative advertising often haphazardly done and not effective. And 7 minute stopsets don't cut it to most listeners. Nor do 18 minute hours of spots. Or 15. Or 12. Even 10 is pushing it.

8. A glut of poorly performing "syndicated" small and medium market stations not performing to their local communities. And worse sounding "voicetracking." Voicetracking can be effective if done well and correctly, with focus. So little is. It sounds like "a job" -- and not a very good one by many on the air who are rushing to get it done and allow it on the air. No or little direction.

9. Poor web integration. Streaming is NOT the answer.

10. Conglomorates, conglomerates, conglomerates.

11. The realization that PPM does not equate to actual "listening" but merely "hearing." The methodology is still not accredited.

12. Agency buyers who, like their counterparts by age, who don't go beyond the "beauty contest" rankings and not deliver to stations doing good things for an effective, money spending audience -- it's about "demo estimates."

Look at so many of the threads here. It's either a knock on poor programming or why HD changes the rules of "DXing" which don't amount to anything. There is so little "listening," but a lot of "hearing" and on this board, DXing seems to be the hobby du jour ... not listening to programming unliked by certain demos. All talk on AM is not a draw to sales productive demos, syndicated and satellite formats are homogenized -- not localized. Lack of community involved personality. Lack of motivated programming, be it "personality" or "more music, less (but creative) talk in seconds, not in boring bits that don't work. The same holds true for time and temp reader card "jocks." There is less preparation.

And it's not about "Money." An $8 an hour jock who doesn't want to work for $8 an hour, doesn't have to. Not forced to take the gig. A $15 an hour "personality" who is horrible is equally of know value, just because. Money doesn't make someone better. Talent does. A million dollar a year "franchise" player who doesn't get the numbers is soon an on-the-beach non-performer. That's management's fault. And bringing in "TV" people isn't the magic seed, either. Nor is shallow laziness by PD's, OM's and talent / producers.

There are many negatives in Radio. The positives need to be redirected in the right ways -- not just for the next spot buy.
 
Rather than comment point by point on Oatree's post, let me simply say one thing:

It's impossible to discuss anything having to do with music radio without mentioning the music.

Say what you will about fragmented audience and "sameness" in radio, the blame should also be put on the music that has been made for the past 15 years. It has become increasingly fragmented, and it attracts very polarized fan bases, that often are very hostile to radio talent, playlists of any sort, and any amount of interruption, either by commercials or by talent.

And where is this music coming from? Conglomerates, conglomerates, conglometates. What do those conglomerates think of radio? Not much. Their music is driving away our listeners, but they want to get paid when we play it. Their royalties in digital media have already increased several times in the last few years, causing Sirius XM to pass on that new cost to its customers.

What's killing radio is a reliance on the music industry to provide the content. That content will ultimately put all DJs out of work, because it's cheaper to spin another 10 in a row than pay a live human. Yet, at the same time, the music is causing the fractionalization that is hurting radio ratings. Too many artists, too little artist development, too many songs that don't register with the audience. The music is causing audiences to seek out their own playlists, program their own stations, and avoid clutter and DJ interruption. All of this is noticed by advertisers, who are either going directly to artists and associating with them, rather than the media, or going to more personalized media, where the audience isn't as hostile.

I agree that ad agencies are unimaginative, and probably #2 on my list of why radio sounds the way it does. They are basing their opinions of the over 50 audience on dated information. They are also wrong on forgetting teens. They are among the most passionate buyers, especially of the music these stations are playing, and if music is going to be the centerpiece, then the advertising should match the music. But that's never a consideration.

Are there problems with radio ownership and management? Sure. But look at the tools they have to work with.
 
Some areas of the country must be a lot different than ours, after reading the first post with Mr bad news I went to three different schools and age groups in our area and asked the kids what radio stations do you listen to, their answers varied from Country to Pop to R & B, Rap and a traditional rock station in the area. All of them agreeded that they loved their ipods, cell phones with music storage ect... but each one had their own opion has to which radio station was their favorite with many having first second and third choices depending on the type of music they wanted to hear at that time. Almost all agreeded that with just a few exceptions that there was too much commericals and talk at times but still they had their favorite places to listen to and it was all FM radio. PS they did agree that the internet provided a lot of music to listen to but many could not get a high speed connection where they lived or had trouble with the music playing then freezing then playing again a lot which seems to be the number 1 problem I hear about the most.
 
You want to know why radio doesnt MATTER anymore?Theres no BUZZ.
Like one of the other posters said,theres no crazy guy locking himself in the studio.
Theres no VARIETY in the music ],its always the same songs over and over,heck throw a few "out of the box"
records or cds on every "fill in popular artist name" song.Everthing is cookie-cutter nowadays,let the DJ talk about what he or she wants ,play what they want to,they need freedom.The industry is dying because its too predictable!!!And thats LAME!I too used to love radio....sad.People want personality.
 
magicjellybeans said:
You want to know why radio doesnt MATTER anymore?Theres no BUZZ.
Like one of the other posters said,theres no crazy guy locking himself in the studio.

Actually there are REAL crazy people in some of these studios. I can't ever recall a time when I read so many stories in the trades about on-air people getting arrested for various things, from drunk driving to kiddie porn. There seems to be at least one every week. It certainly didn't help radio's reputation when Imus had his melt-down a couple years ago. Or the duo in Sacramento that had a contest where a woman died over a Wei. A DJ in New York who threatened the life of a child on the air. Lots of crazy stories involving radio. Lots of DJs talking about what he wants. Lots of unpredictability. None of it has helped radio. I think in a world where terrorists are trying to blow up planes and buildings, the public needs a little predictability every once in a while.
 
Yeah, but the "craziness" on the air way back when--a lot of it was "theatre of the mind." Stern could do it. Selden, too. And many others. I think it came from folks who were very young before TV was mainstream...and heard some of the old radio shows (serials, comedies, etc) and curiously delved into the inventiveness and "technology" it took to pull those off, and tried those elements when it was finally 'their' turn at the mic. The stuff going on these days is usually off the air, and REAL. And usually sickening, and shocking, and not related to radio, and something that will probably get that person fired.
 
sodypopdrinker said:
But when there's a storm, a tornado, or other local (or regional) catastrophe -- who are we going to turn to if RADIO isn't there? Just sayin' -- I love radio. I wish I were still working for a radio station, but it didn't work out for me. But I would hate to be without it when we need it the most.

We think different sometimes because we were or are radio folk. I still use the local AM station to hear traffic on the way to and from work. But it wouldn't be a big deal if I didn't have that station. Traffic is available online and that's available with a smart phone in the car.

As far as a tornado or thunderstorm alert, all of the big weather websites and even a lot of local government sites, offer email or text alerts. So you can enter your address and get a text message before a tornado and then seek shelter or get online and get more details.

Radio killed itself when it started playing the same songs over and over. I like to have a bit of personality, so I enjoy some of the more radio-like web streams rather than the juke-box style pandora sites. Now we can stream in the car. Us younger people want to hear more than just the top pop or country tunes. We like alternative, independent, chill, acoustic, etc. and not many FM stations offer that. The top 40 songs might be popular among some, but they no longer represent all that the majority listen to.
 
mock3 said:
Radio killed itself when it started playing the same songs over and over.

Sorry, but that's simply not true. The Todd Storz-Gordon McClendon experiment still holds true today. Go into any bar, and you'll hear the same songs over and over. People love 'em. They also like to stay married to the same exact person forever. Go figger.
 
Betcha if I rode to work with anybody for a week with only their iPod for a week, I'd hear the same songs over and over. Maybe cross genres a little but very few have more than a couple hundred songs they want to hear consistently.
 
gr8oldies said:
The folks on boards like this who claim to have 100000 songs from 1863 to the present equally are the exceptions.

I feel insignificant now. I only have 1482 songs from the 30's to the present. ::)
 
gr8oldies said:
Betcha if I rode to work with anybody for a week with only their iPod for a week, I'd hear the same songs over and over. Maybe cross genres a little but very few have more than a couple hundred songs they want to hear consistently.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20050907/0234208.shtml
According to one study, the average iPod users has only 375 songs on it, even as people keep buying the ones with bigger and bigger hard drives.

And accordingto this chart:
http://blogs.sun.com/plamere/entry/what_s_on_your_ipod
the average collection has 3500+ songs, 7% of users have less than 100 songs,(the biggest user has 50K songs so I'd liek to see teh difference between average and median size) , 64% of songs never get played, and 23% of the collection accounts for 80% of the songs played.
 
little1 said:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20050907/0234208.shtml
According to one study, the average iPod users has only 375 songs on it, even as people keep buying the ones with bigger and bigger hard drives.
http://www.collisiondetection.net/mt/archives/2005/09/_for_a_few_year_1.php

Despite a relatively high average of 375 songs per player, 50% of digital music players hold fewer than 100 songs — suggesting a perfect target for limited capacity mobile phone/digital music hybrids. A quarter of digital music players have 100-499 songs, while the remaining 25% have more than 500 songs.
 
And this is part of why I don't buy a lot of you guys preaching "Ipods are killing radio" because they've got more music variety...

I survey friends and acquaitances whenever I get a chance at what they have on their ipod, how they use it, etc...And in my limited research, there's a TON of people with very small record collections digitized on their ipod.

Which means the ipod is perfect for certain circumstances- when they're working out, listening to music in situations where a radio isn't available (i.e.- for kids- on the school bus, for example).

So depending on which study you believe, Ipods don't offer greater variety necessarily, they just offer someone the variety they like.
 
little1 said:
So depending on which study you believe, Ipods don't offer greater variety necessarily, they just offer someone the variety they like.

I agree, and the problem with radio, from the POV of some listeners, is it occasionally plays a song or two they don't like, which may be the favorites of someone else. There's no pleasing people. So while they like the variety idea in principle, they don't like it in practice.
 
Little1, you've hit the nail on the head. While we are at it, I don't believe in this huge amount of people who WILL NOT, even for a ten minute drive, listen to anything they didn't personally program.
 
Radio is not just about music. Radio is about communication of all types, including music. An accumulation of failure in providing those elements can hamstring the whole medium.
 
This may sound just stupid, but maybe it just depends on the market. I live in a major market (#11 actually) and I've talked with a lot of younger people (teens, young adults) about radio. And a lot of them listen to the radio all the time, and it even sounded like they prefer radio over ipods, internet etc. ;D Most of them could even name most of the jocks on the station. I was impressed!
 
I asked the Ipod usage question on a private internet forum, and a lot of the people said they used it on the subway, the train, etc. So yes, I can see where different markets could totally skew typical usage. I think very few people in DFW are listening to their ipods on the subway... ;D

And as for people saying 'kids don't listen to the radio', they need to explain KISS's ratings to me. Because KISS does incredibly well in 'kid' demos.
 
The smaller markets seem to still have that listener connection like majors did in the 80's. Take a market like Amarillo or Lubbock Texas, there are still those stations with a 10+ share and everyone is into their favorite talent.

The majors changed for a reason, but after travelling big to small, then medium to large....I think the 100k-1 million cume's have it more figured out than the big boys.

Look at Ron Chapman brining it back home doing the KVIL shuffle just like yesteryear. From what I can tell, he'd making it happen with that format. It is all about being consistent.
 
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